Tetra Safe Start And Cycling My New Tank

[Prime Ordeal]

There is no way to bottle it either, if it the same bacteria as to what naturally grows in a fishtank.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. TSS, for example, contains the right bacteria as found in our fish tanks and that's bottled.

Directly from the package: "Biozyme is a revolutionary product utilizing dried cultures of hetrophic bacteria and enzymes fixed on bran"

And that explains why it can be freeze dried. It also means there's no nitrifying bacteria in it, which would suggest its usefulness is somewhat limited.

 

[snazy]

If Biozyme has heterotrophic bacteria, then a mini cycle afterwards should happen on theory, as the autotrophic nitrosomonas, nitrosospira, nitrospira still need to grow.
It probably just takes care of high ammonia/nitrite levels in a fish-in cycle while the other bacteria takes it's time to grow maybe?

I don't know, just thinking loud.

 

[Dieses Madchen]

If Biozyme has heterotrophic bacteria, then a mini cycle afterwards should happen on theory, as the autotrophic nitrosomonas, nitrosospira, nitrospira still need to grow.
It probably just takes care of high ammonia/nitrite levels in a fish-in cycle while the other bacteria takes it's time to grow maybe?

I don't know, just thinking loud.

Its only a booster product, just like the bottled stuff. It will boost the bacterial load in the tank while the natural bacteria grows.

There is no way to bottle it either, if it the same bacteria as to what naturally grows in a fishtank.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. TSS, for example, contains the right bacteria as found in our fish tanks and that's bottled.

Directly from the package: "Biozyme is a revolutionary product utilizing dried cultures of hetrophic bacteria and enzymes fixed on bran"

And that explains why it can be freeze dried. It also means there's no nitrifying bacteria in it, which would suggest its usefulness is somewhat limited.

Actually it doesnt mean that. There are many types of nitrifying bacterias. There isn't just one. And I guarantee that if you look on the bottles they will probably say the bacteria in those bottles is hetrophic as well.

 

[snazy]

I know it's a booster product, but in this case it will still take the necessary weeks/months for the nitrifying bacteria to grow because if there is no nitrifying bacteria in Biozyme, then whatever it is boosting won't help with the autotrophic bacteria growth. It may even slow it down in this case, as the heterotrophs will still steal the oxygen and available surfaces for bacterial growth.

Actually it doesnt mean that. There are many types of nitrifying bacterias. There isn't just one. And I guarantee that if you look on the bottles they will probably say the bacteria in those bottles is hetrophic as well.

No DM, the TSS says it contains nitrosomonas, nitrosospira and nitrospira, all of which are autotrophic bacteria which is impossible to freeze dry as of 2012 info.
And the bacteria in a freshwater tank responsible for the nitrogen cycle has nothing to do with heterotrophic bacteria that is also in the tank normally.

 

[Dieses Madchen]

Then it is probably that my tank downstair caught up on its own and that my current cycling tank is doing it on its own. After 7 day dosing on my tank downstairs, it stayed stable. i was paranoid and checked for nitrites every day. Never spiked after that and the ammonia was always zero.

I know it's a booster product, but in this case it will still take the necessary weeks/months for the nitrifying bacteria to grow because if there is no nitrifying bacteria in Biozyme, then whatever it is boosting won't help with the autotrophic bacteria growth. It may even slow it down in this case, as the heterotrophs will still steal the oxygen and available surfaces for bacterial growth.

Actually it doesnt mean that. There are many types of nitrifying bacterias. There isn't just one. And I guarantee that if you look on the bottles they will probably say the bacteria in those bottles is hetrophic as well.

No DM, the TSS says it contains nitrosomonas, nitrosospira and nitrospira, all of which are autotrophic bacteria which is impossible to freeze dry as of 2012 info.

Regardless, my point is that those particular inoculates are not the only nitrifying bacterias there are.

 

[snazy]

Regardless, my point is that those particular inoculates are not the only nitrifying bacterias there are.

Probably, but not in a home freshwater tank anyway. And also all nitrifying bacteria responsible for nitrogen cycle can not be freezed dried.
I would be interested to know if you give an example of one type nitrifying bacteria that can be freeze-dried?

 

[Dieses Madchen]

Regardless, my point is that those particular inoculates are not the only nitrifying bacterias there are.

Probably, but not in a home freshwater tank anyway. And also all nitrifying bacteria responsible for nitrogen cycle can not be freezed dried.
I would be interested to know if you give an example of one type nitrifying bacteria that can be freeze-dried?

Did you not see my post previous when I said that bacterium naturally occuring in the fishtank cannot be freeze-dried and that you were right from previous conversation? Or do you just like to hound me to prove a point. I already said you were right, would you like me to kiss your feet as well?

There is no way to bottle it either, if it the same bacteria as to what naturally grows in a fishtank. I did research after a conversation with Snazy and he was right about the natural bacteria. It cannot be freeze dried. Hetrophic bacteria can be. So I can only assume that Biozyme is theoretically the same stuff that is in the bottles, but stored in a different matter.

Directly from the package: "Biozyme is a revolutionary product utilizing dried cultures of hetrophic bacteria and enzymes fixed on bran"

THERE YOU GO.

 

[snazy]

I don't think I'll let you even kiss my feet.
Never mind. The reason I answered to your post again is that you make statements without explaining the logic in them. So its easy for a person that normally tries to understand things rather than take everything for granted, to actually question a one sentence statement posted like it is the absolute truth.

Edit: And by the way, I probably didn't read that post you are referring to.
My apologies.
Now please let's keep it civil as you seem to be taking everying personally and really don't have anything personal towards you.
Is there a need really for you to react like that?

 

[Dieses Madchen]

When you question the way you do, especially when someone has already given due credit to you knowledge, it seems like you are trolling. And I'm not the only one who thinks that. (even the mods are noticing) Just a warning.

But I am disengaging from this thread now, as every conversation we have seem to turn into a who's balls are bigger contest, and quite frankly, I just don't have the time nor patience. Well won sir, google has done you well

I'm going to go back to doing what I know, which is being a microbiologist/hematologist.

 

[snazy]

Thanks for the warning.
I guess that's because I had a few scientific arguments with a couple of mods. But regardless of whether I get banned or not, I am on this forum because it is called "FishForums.net", not "KeepPleasingMe.net"
And I don't care whether you acknowledge what I've said or not. It just doesn't have any personal benefit for me, but your fish.

Well won sir, google has done you well. I'm going to go back to doing what I know, which is being a microbiologist/hematologist.

You might try google sometimes yourself. It has more info then one's head can ever possibly comprehend.

Knowledge is of two kinds. We know a subject ourselves, or we know where we can find information on it.
Samuel Johnson (1709 - 1784), quoted in Boswell's Life of Johnson

 

[snazy]

Regardless, my point is that those particular inoculates are not the only nitrifying bacterias there are.

Probably, but not in a home freshwater tank anyway. And also all nitrifying bacteria responsible for nitrogen cycle can not be freezed dried.
I would be interested to know if you give an example of one type nitrifying bacteria that can be freeze-dried?

Did you not see my post previous when I said that bacterium naturally occuring in the fishtank cannot be freeze-dried and that you were right from previous conversation? Or do you just like to hound me to prove a point. I already said you were right, would you like me to kiss your feet as well?

There is no way to bottle it either, if it the same bacteria as to what naturally grows in a fishtank. I did research after a conversation with Snazy and he was right about the natural bacteria. It cannot be freeze dried. Hetrophic bacteria can be. So I can only assume that Biozyme is theoretically the same stuff that is in the bottles, but stored in a different matter.

Directly from the package: "Biozyme is a revolutionary product utilizing dried cultures of hetrophic bacteria and enzymes fixed on bran"

THERE YOU GO.

Still trying to figure out how "kissing feet" and whether nitrifying bacteria and which one can be freeze dried is somewhat related. Isn't that called trolling?

As for your second statement, in the space of a couple of sentences you keep contradicting yourself. That's why I commented. You say that the natural bacteria cannot be freeze dried, only the heterotrophic. Also, in the same space you confirm Biozyme contains heterotrophic bacteria, but then you state that Biozyme is the same staff as in the bottles(presumed you meant TSS), but stored in a different matter?

And I am sorry, but that these sentences together are contradicting. And that's why I got confused. The last time we talked about freeze drying bacteria and I said that nitrifying bacteria cannot be freeze dried, this is what you said to me:

I would like to know what your sources are Snazy, as you seem to have an answer for everything, or I would like to know where you got your Microbiology Ph D. Nothing you just said made any sense.

 

[afremont]

There is no doubt that it did work for me the previous two times. I can't really explain why not this time, but I won't be using it in a fishless cycle again that's for sure.
Your Biozyme thread looks promising though.

I think that messing with ammonia dosing caused a nitrite spike that is now prevent the so-called n-bacs from working. They won't work if the nitrites are too high; it's poisonous to them as well I have read. Do some water changes and get your nitrItes undercontrol and see if it doesn't clear up. I wish you hadn't done the latest TSS dose until getting the nitrItes down with a water change. It's not TSS's fault, the bacteria simply can't function with too much food (nitrItes). Sounds weird but that's what I've read. At almost 5ppm nitrItes, your n-bacs are suffering.

 

[snazy]

There is no doubt that it did work for me the previous two times. I can't really explain why not this time, but I won't be using it in a fishless cycle again that's for sure.
Your Biozyme thread looks promising though.

I think that messing with ammonia dosing caused a nitrite spike that is now prevent the so-called n-bacs from working. They won't work if the nitrites are too high; it's poisonous to them as well I have read. Do some water changes and get your nitrItes undercontrol and see if it doesn't clear up. I wish you hadn't done the latest TSS dose until getting the nitrItes down with a water change. It's not TSS's fault, the bacteria simply can't function with too much food (nitrItes). Sounds weird but that's what I've read. At almost 5ppm nitrItes, your n-bacs are suffering.

I think you are right. I have read exactly the same. High nitrites are a problem regardless of whether TSS or normal bacs.
I was just being lazy and didn't want to do a water change, so I am going to have to pay for it now
It took me hours to fill the tank with a bucket the last time

 

[afremont]

There is no doubt that it did work for me the previous two times. I can't really explain why not this time, but I won't be using it in a fishless cycle again that's for sure.
Your Biozyme thread looks promising though.

I think that messing with ammonia dosing caused a nitrite spike that is now prevent the so-called n-bacs from working. They won't work if the nitrites are too high; it's poisonous to them as well I have read. Do some water changes and get your nitrItes undercontrol and see if it doesn't clear up. I wish you hadn't done the latest TSS dose until getting the nitrItes down with a water change. It's not TSS's fault, the bacteria simply can't function with too much food (nitrItes). Sounds weird but that's what I've read. At almost 5ppm nitrItes, your n-bacs are suffering.

I think you are right. I have read exactly the same. High nitrites are a problem regardless of whether TSS or normal bacs.
I was just being lazy and didn't want to do a water change, so I am going to have to pay for it now
It took me hours to fill the tank with a bucket the last time

High nitrItes seems to be the root cause of a good many stalled cycles from looking around.

On a side note, I don't see any need for anyone to get peeved over a logical argument. It wouldn't be a discussion if people started off in agreement and it wouldn't amount to anything useful if nobody was ever shown to be technically wrong. I made the mistake of spouting that TSS didn't contain nitrosomonas or nitrospira and I was wrong according to their very own web site. Obviously they've devised a way to keep the live bacteria in almost a suspended state with ample food, and oxygen, available for up to 18 months at room temperature. I'm sure that some day someone will figure a way to store living nitrifying bacteria inside carbon nanotube structures that are in powdered form with an even longer shelf life and broader temperature range. It's just progress at work.

 

[snazy]

Just uploaded the results. I didn't bother testing NitrAte and Ph. I am saving on the NitrAte test as I am afraid it won't last till the end.

Ammonia is 0, redosed 7ml which is about 2.10ppm. NitrIte is purple
I did a 50/50 tap/tank water test just to make sure it's not off the scale. Based on that nitrIte is 4ppm as half tank and half tap water shows 2ppm max on the chart. Here is a pic:

It's probably a wishfull thinking, but I did a test out of curiosity during the day and it seemed the nitrIte was higher then as the purple was darker compared to now.