Tank Going Downhill Fast After 4+ Years

[Jam Jam]

Have you cleaned or checked you filter again at all since your last post to see if its logged up again ?
Shame to hear of the fish flicking again,they are not happy with the water by the sounds of it.


I mean your last post on dec 13 sorry .

Have you cleaned or checked you filter again at all since your last post to see if its logged up again ?
Shame to hear of the fish flicking again,they are not happy with the water by the sounds of it.


I mean your last post on dec 13 sorry .

sixteenth even lol

 

[cambojnr]

I cant say its any of the food to be honest, the problems started before i bought soem more algae wafers (for the cory) the flakes i have used for a long time.

I meant earlier that i've done about 8 doses of the same med - paraguard.

after a w/c i havent added anymore, they seem better, but the platies occasionally hide around the filter ...

the lid hasnt been left off, i used to have an open topped tank, and im doing nothing different now.
Im sort of convinced the change to sand has triggered all these problems, as i didnt know i had to turn it all over every week.

This is a minor issue in this situation, but cories are carnivorous, not algae eaters. They would do better with meaty food, like shrimp pellets, rather than algae wafers.

oh ive never heard/ come across this before! i had an albino cory that lived 4 years with me and all i fed him was algae wafers, and he did eat flakes that dropped to the floor. algae wafers are the only food advertised as being for catfish/corys/bottom feeders in my lfs's.
In all of my lfs i haven't ever seen any shrimp pellets for sale, my shrimp eat the algae wafers too and swim off with pieces of them!! how strange would it be for shrimp to eat shrimp pellets haha. would the shrimp pellets be too much protein for my guppy/platies..?

I cant say its any of the food to be honest, the problems started before i bought soem more algae wafers (for the cory) the flakes i have used for a long time.

I meant earlier that i've done about 8 doses of the same med - paraguard.

after a w/c i havent added anymore, they seem better, but the platies occasionally hide around the filter ...

the lid hasnt been left off, i used to have an open topped tank, and im doing nothing different now.
Im sort of convinced the change to sand has triggered all these problems, as i didnt know i had to turn it all over every week.

all I do with my sand is stick a pole in every week.

wooden? like a wooden spoon end or something

the remaining platies are still flicking on things and go in and out of being active then hanging around hr filter, fins clamped etc. i can't see any whitespots, but its almost as if they have a sort of coating, but i can barely tell, and one of my platies is white.. the guppy is fine.. and the tetras/cory

Just use something pole like to poke around in the sand every 2-3 weeks to release the the nasties, just make sure it is something you only use for the fish tank and nothing else, as I use the pole I got with this cleaning kit for basically everything, and has a rake and stuff for leveling sand if like you said you did earlier http/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aquaclean-4-in-1-Fish-Tank-Cleaner-Rake-Net-/190779765349?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item2c6b5c3265

 

[emilythestrange]

I lasted did a w/c on tuesday, so im not quite due yet.. as the fish are still flicking should i carry on the paraguard treatment

 

[snazy]

I lasted did a w/c on tuesday, so im not quite due yet.. as the fish are still flicking should i carry on the paraguard treatment

Not sure how long they've been on it, but you should maybe finish the treatment, put some carbon and a big water change to clear these meds, give them a break for a few days and then try another product that treats different types of parasites. Are they still dying? Are they having stringy poop, do they eat? Just be careful not to get something with copper as you'll never be able to keep shrimp again in the tank.

As for the sand, I've got a tank that's been with sand for a year and I never poked it around and it never got any pockets or problems in it but the sand is not the super fine one, normal size grains.

 

[emilythestrange]

I lasted did a w/c on tuesday, so im not quite due yet.. as the fish are still flicking should i carry on the paraguard treatment

Not sure how long they've been on it, but you should maybe finish the treatment, put some carbon and a big water change to clear these meds, give them a break for a few days and then try another product that treats different types of parasites. Are they still dying? Are they having stringy poop, do they eat? Just be careful not to get something with copper as you'll never be able to keep shrimp again in the tank.

As for the sand, I've got a tank that's been with sand for a year and I never poked it around and it never got any pockets or problems in it but the sand is not the super fine one, normal size grains.

Is it play sand that you have used? Im thinking maybe i shoould take some sand out to make half the depth (see my sig pic) or do you think that wouldn't make a different as long as i swirled it regularly.
I havent had one die for about.,... 4 days? something like that.

I had done about 5/6 days of meds for the paraguard, it doesnt mention how long a course is, just carry on using if the fish show no signs of stress.
They havent been on the paraguard med since tuesday, as that was my 20% waterchange, probably did 25% that day though.. now they are still going through aggressive phases of flicking like mad. even though theres no spots. they occasionly hold their fins clamped and peck at each others sides when they are twitching and flicking, as if to "eat" the coating off.

Maybe they have velvet?? Im not so sure... fed up of chucking loads of money at meds £10 a pop, plus they go out of date really quickly so none of my old ones are any good!!

The poo is normal, thick and not stringy. eating loads.!

 

[emilythestrange]

******** UPDATE 2013************
 
I have now:
 
1 guppy   (of which i have brought not too long ago, along with 4 other which died)
1 platy (very skinny etc) looking like its dieing
2 tetras
1 cory
2 shrimp
 
 
i am seriously fed up at the moment. but the biggest drawback is the money i spent on the original tank.. and the u3 filter;
 
im thinking either a fancy goldfish or try again with platys.
 
 
does anyone recommend a complete re-start with my tank?? (i.e  scrub the whole lot down and get new foam pads for the filter. and possible change back to gravel.,... again!!!
 
also im set to move house in a week..., any tips how to manage it?

 

[cambojnr]

******** UPDATE 2013************
 
I have now:
 
1 guppy   (of which i have brought not too long ago, along with 4 other which died)
1 platy (very skinny etc) looking like its dieing
2 tetras
1 cory
2 shrimp
 
 
i am seriously fed up at the moment. but the biggest drawback is the money i spent on the original tank.. and the u3 filter;
 
im thinking either a fancy goldfish or try again with platys.
 
 
does anyone recommend a complete re-start with my tank?? (i.e  scrub the whole lot down and get new foam pads for the filter. and possible change back to gravel.,... again!!!
 
also im set to move house in a week..., any tips how to manage it?

since the tank is only big enough for 1 fancy and they are social fish, why not make it a big betta tank and after a few months/weeks add a few more fish if the betta id doing fine? as for restarting you should try keep the bacteria in your filter alive. you could also just make it a cory tank as  corys do need to be in bigger groups of preferably 6, so you could rehome all other fish and get like 10-15 more of the same cory and it would be awesome, especially if you set it up to mimic their natural  enviroment.

 

[emilythestrange]

I've had a betta before, which just went into hiding and got skinnier through stress and died. I will add more cories if i want to stay tropical, its just the fish i really love, (platies and guppies) arent hardy and carry diseases, which lead me to these problems. one by one i rule off another lfs. ive tested their water and their stats all show ammonia etc. im really frustrated with it all.
 
I like the colours and nature of the livebearers, they explore all parts of the tank and dont primarily stay on the bottom, like cories... i also love endlers. but i cant get them anywhere. i used to have them with gravel substrate, but i still think its the sand.
 
Should i change the sand?

 

[snazy]

The substrate change may have caused ammonia spikes goint unnoticed in the beginning, leading to weakened immune system and then sickness. There's no point changing it now as it will cause the same problem regardless of the grain/substrate used.
There's no point adding any fish while the rest are still sick. Can you list what medications you tried, for how long and how did you remove the meds afterwards? Also, what are the symptoms specifically?
I know it's frustrating, but it is even more so for the poor fish. Some diseases don't kill instantly, the fish suffer for months from it and not treating the right meds just prolongs the process and it's a painful thing to go along with.

 

[emilythestrange]

I tested the water very regularly, and im 90% certain that there was never a spike., I had the same problems before, but the sand seems to make it worse.
When i tried it before the tank had cycled media in and i had barely any fish, yet they always died.
Maybe i just can't clean the sand properly?
I was told that nasty gas gets trapped under the sand etc and thats what it was, I try my very best to swirl the sand, but im still paranoid that i havent moved every grain or the sudden once a week movement makes the fish ill from what gas is trapped underneath

 

[snazy]

Well I've got sand in my tanks and I've barely stirred anything. If it needs any stirring, it's just once in a while so I don't think that has anything to do with it, considering you've had fish dying before as well. If your filter isn't coping and there's always debris on the sand, then you can either get a 2nd filter or a small powerhead to aid the flow so all of it gets sucked in by the filter, or 2nd filter. Changing to gravel won't make a difference, the dirt will always settle where it used to, you just won't see it with gravel, making you think the tank is clean but it isn't and get's even worse because it fools you.
If you had the problem for a long time, you just have a nasty disease you never got rid off in the first place and no matter how many fish you get, the new ones will get it too. Stelizing the tank is a bit "iffy" and the last thing I'd do in your case because you'll end up with non-cycled tank, ammonia spikes and fish still carrying the disease, which can lead to a total disaster rather than solving anything, unless you are willing to kill all current inhabitants but I don't want to be involved in such approach. You need to eradicate it now.

When i tried it before the tank had cycled media in and i had barely any fish, yet they always died.

 
Of course they'll die. Uncycled tank means ammonia and nitrIte, fish die whether fully stocked or barely stocked tank. Hence why we do fishless cycle instead so we prevent any diseases and death from the very start. Try taking a deep breath and start again. What are the symptoms? Can you please describe at your best what you have noticed in the dying fish? Providing the cory hasn't died all this time, it could be something that affects the livebearers mainly. Just give as much details as you can from your observation and please provide the used medication so far. 

 

[emilythestrange]

My tank media is over 4 years old, maybe 5 years now.
 
An additional tank that i mentioned had a piece from this media. (therefore cycled) and i checked this by adding ammonia before the inhabitants and testing the water a couple of hours later etc etc.
I know it doesnt matter whats in there.
 
Tetras and Cories aren't affected. neither are my Shrimp. Its very confusing.  Yet i like livebearers the most..
 
 
Meds so far:
 
Paraguard  about 2 month ago
 
 
years ago i use other whitespot treatments such as interpet (rubbish) and protozin too.
 
 
They look ghastly skinny in a n shape, their stomach kicks in and they look listless and dont move about as much, poop is normal.. feeding normal..
they then hang around the tank with clamped fins .. then sit either on the floor of the tank or other hiding spots

 

[snazy]

First of all, we need to figure out whether they have internal parasites or bacterial infection.
Do they flick(scratch themselves off decoration and such?). Do you have a magnifying glass and try to see on the body, anal area, gills if there's anything like tiny, tiny worms sticking out for example. If they are wasting away skinny, it's most likely internal but could be either parasitic or bacterial. In both cases though white stringy poop is common which is confusing in this case(mind you I am no expert, just trying to help)
Paraguard is mostly parasitic and is mild enough. It needs to be used for like 2-3 weeks at a time, for example in case of white spot and won't treat some more specific parasites or bacterial infection. 
So we need to move on to something broad spectrum and strong enough to stop whatever is going on, hopefully on next attempt but the most important part is again, whether it's parasites or bacteria. I wouldn't recommend buying any fish until you deal with it and let the current survivors recover to make sure there's no danger anymore(although you never know what will come from the shop)
Also, what's the Ph of the tank water, or any other parameters like GH, KH if you've measured. It's possible your water is too soft for livebearers, thus making them succeptable to diseases(in case I didn't ask already, sorry if I did)

 

[Mark Z.]

Just read this thread and thought I'd add my two cents....
 
It seems to me that the problem is the quality of fish that you get. As an earlier poster suggested, the quality of stock these days, for guppies especially, is poor. When I was a kid, I could buy a guppy and put it in my overcrowded, less-than-ideal aquarium and it would thrive with little care. I haven't bought a guppy in years because they just seem to weak right off the bat at the store, and they are one of my favorite fish.
 
How do the other fish look from the tanks that you purchase your platys and guppies? I don't buy any fish that come from tanks where other fish look weak or sickly. In my opinion, buying a weak or sick fish and then trying to treat it never works. The fact that you have had the same tetras for years sounds to me that you are doing things right.
 
My advice would be to step back and regroup. Add more corys, as a previous poster suggested. Let the tank run for a few weeks and keep up with the water changes and maintenance. Don't rush to buy platys just because you like platys; make sure you ONLY buy platys that look 100% healthy from tanks where the other fish look 100% healthy. I realize that you said you have few pet store choices, but the alternative is getting poor-quality fish and more of what you are going through now.
 
I don't believe all this medication is the answer. I believe the problem is the quality of fish. Good luck to you and all the best in your new home. Hopefully, you will locate an alternative pet store with nicer livebearers!
 
Mark

 

[snazy]

So from all the above post I gather the suggestion is buy more fish?
There are all kinds of possibilities. For example, fish can become immune to a certain disease they were treated for and survived. The bacteria/parasite in question can still be in the tank but would only affect fish that aren't immune, hence any new fish will get sick.
And other possibilites. Certain fish just don't get certain diseases, etc...
I'd never buy a new fish until that die off has stopped. There's no way you can be so unlucky to be buying just weak fish diying from birth/genetic defects and previous stress and malnutrition. Still, if they are just weak, adding them to a perfect enviroment should immediately boost their immune system and they should at least have some type of improvement instead of dropping like flies. And platies are very, very hardy, unless they are diseased. Guppies can be more succeptible to suddenly diying than platies in my opinion.