Super Ich

[FishLover66]

Ok, so I've been trying to eliminate ich on my fish for what seems like ETERNITY (actually almost three weeks, which is a lot longer than usual). Started out with API Super Ick Cure, which normally takes care of it within 4 days. Couldn't continue with that one because my cories didn't like the full strength and the 1/2 dose didn't do squat. Switched to salt and raised temp to 86F. Two or three days of that and my plants weren't happy. Did a 50% water change, kept the temp at 86F and tried Kordon Ich Attack, which is an herbal remedy that is safe for everything, apparently, but ich and other parasites & fungus. Started at normal dosage, with little or no improvement, then upped it to 2x dosage, which is what they recommend, then 3x. Saw improvement for a few days, then no improvement (I never saw ich on my cories or otos and the hatchets no longer showed signs of ich). Since there seemed to be a few VERY resistant white spots on my neons, I decided to up the temp to 88F and upped the dosage again. For the past couple of days, I've only seen one to three white dots on my neons only--other fish look good. This morning I check and couldn't find ANY--Yay!.....after I got home from work, saw two--still only on the neons--DANG! What the heck is it with the NEONS?!

Does anyone have any experience with very resistant strains of ich? These poor fish have been in bath water (88-89F) for three days and 86F for two weeks before that--how long can they take the high temps? And what about my plants? Some are starting to lose leaves and my Amazon sword isn't looking good. After three weeks of high temps--even without meds--shouldn't the ich be gone by now?!

Besides all this, I'm really getting tired of looking at the brown, murky water in my tank--can't even see the fish in the back of the tank anymore! Plus it stinks--although they must have improved their formula since the new bottle I bought yesterday doesn't smell nearly as much as the one I had purchased earlier.

Please,I need advice. I feel that I need to continue with the high heat and meds, but am concerned about my fish and plants.

 

[KISSfn]

I have read that there are resistant strains of Ich out there. I tried API Super Ick Cure and it didn't do anything. After some research it seemed impossible to cure Ich in the short amount of time API claims on their bottle. The Ich life cycle can last 35 days or longer. Kordon Rid Ich Plus worked for me. Raised temp to 82F and added a half dose of aquarium salt. Took 16 days. With Kordon you do watechanges every day. Be sure to treat at least 4 days after all signs of Ich is gone.

 

[FishLover66]

So I just need to hang in there. I actually read on Kordon's website that water changes aren't recommended until after treatment. But I'm glad it worked for you--I'm going to check my water parameters tomorrow and do a water change if I need to. I just feel bad for these fish, although they really don't seem too bothered by the high temp, or the meds--even at almost 4x the normal dosage. I definitely plan on continuing treatment for at least four days after all white spots are gone. Definitely don't want to go through this again! I also think I'm going to wait a good long time before I add any new fish to the tank--it would be nice to enjoy what I have for a while without having to deal with one outbreak or another.

 

[KISSfn]

Couldn't agree more about never wanting to battle Ich for the rest of my life! For the Kordon Rid Ich Plus (one of a couple of their anti Ich products) the label says to do 30% waterchanges before each daily treatment. This also makes sense as you will be siphoning out some of the waterborne stages of Ich.

 

[FishLover66]

Oh, that makes sense. Rid Ich Plus is pretty strong. I had to do a water change today as the nitrates were getting pretty high--must be all that organic Ich Attach I'm dosing my tank with. Keeping the temp at 88-89F, aerating, and continued dosage 3x a day over this weekend. Hopefully by the end of the weekend that last neon won't be showing any signs of ich. I thought they were cured this morning as I didn't see any white spots on them, but after I did the water change I noticed one of the smaller neons had a couple--BUMMER!

 

[KISSfn]

Hang in there!

 

[FishLover66]

STILL hanging in there..... albeit by the tips of my nails. Thought I was in the clear this morning since I didn't see any white spots on my fish all day Sunday and still nothing this morning. Continued treating with Ich Attack, but lowered the temp slightly from 89/90 to 87/88.

After work, checked them again and found two white spots on one of my neons. The rest of the fish look good, with the exception of another neon who appears to now have swim bladder desease. I swear I never had THIS many problems with my fish tanks when I was younger--so frustrating.

Do you have any experience with swim bladder disease? I have no idea how to treat it.

 

[KISSfn]

You have to go the distance against Ich because it will return if you don't totally eradicate it.

For swim bladder try feeding blanched de-shelled peas. If that doesn't work treat with antibiotic Maracyn 2.

 

[FishLover66]

I'm not giving up on the Ich--just feel bad for those poor fish who have to put up with all that junk in their 'world' along with the high heat. They can't be happy about that. Of course, Ich is worse, so I intend to keep doing what I'm doing.

Thanks for the advice on the swim bladder. I'm not sure I could get any of my neons to eat peas, but especially not the one that is sick--he/she can't really swim right and hasn't been able to eat anything. I'll pick up some Maracyn 2 on my way home. Will that destroy my biological filter?

 

[FishLover66]

Oh well. The neon didn't make it. I hope it's nothing that is contagious!

 

[KISSfn]

I'm not giving up on the Ich--just feel bad for those poor fish who have to put up with all that junk in their 'world' along with the high heat. They can't be happy about that. Of course, Ich is worse, so I intend to keep doing what I'm doing.

Thanks for the advice on the swim bladder. I'm not sure I could get any of my neons to eat peas, but especially not the one that is sick--he/she can't really swim right and hasn't been able to eat anything. I'll pick up some Maracyn 2 on my way home. Will that destroy my biological filter?

Ich can kill so treatment is a necessary evil.
Maracyn 2 will not hurt your filter's bacteria.

Oh well. The neon didn't make it. I hope it's nothing that is contagious!

So sorry for your loss...

 

[TwoTankAmin]

If you are indeed battling true "super ich" then you need to look into "quinine sulfate". This problem is often referred to as "Far East Super ich". It is a particularly virulent strain of ich that is resistant to all the normal drugs most fish keepers use for dealing with ich. It also has a longer life cycle.

Quinine sulfate has also proved useful in treating the common form of ich in sensitive fish - scaleless ones like clown loaches etc. or other fish like tetras which are know to be sensitive to the usual meds.

d] Quinine
Quinine acts on skin-inhabiting trophozoite stages of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis in ornamental
fish and causes severe alterations in the parasite’s structure, mainly consisting of an
enlargement of the alveolar sacs, a partial destruction of the nephroplasm, and a sloughing off
of the membranes bordering the contractile vacuoles (Schmahl et al., 1996).

From http/ressources.ciheam.org/om/pdf/a86/00801063.pdf
or

1. Ich Disease or Ichthyphthiris Disease
Ich disease or 'white spot disease' is the most common disease in aquaria.
Organism causing the disease: The ciliate. Ichthyophthirius multifiliis
Symptoms: White glistening spots or Salt-like specks on the body/fins. Excessive slime on body, difficulty in breathing, clamped fins and loss of
appetite are other symptoms.
Treatment: The free-swimming phase of the parasite is susceptible to chemicals. Quinine hydrochloride or Quinine sulphate at 30 mg per
litre (1 in 30,000) can be used. Others such as acridine orange, acriflavine, mild formalin solution, benzalkonium chloride, malachite green or malachite green with copper are effective.

From Diseases of Ornamental Fishes and their Control

You can find more info at these sites:
http/www.fishchannel.com/fish-blogs/fish-biz-buzz/2010/06/far-east-super-ich.aspx
http/www.animalnetwork.com/animalnetwork/images/EPAF0810LowRes.pdf
http/www.tfhdigital.com/tfh/200804?pg=122&search_term=super%20ich&search_term=super%20ich#pg122

 

[FishLover66]

Thanks KISSfn. The neons were one of my first fish (first one was a betta) and the only fish I've purchased that I not only didn't have any issues with nor any deaths, well, up until now.

TwoTank, I'm assuming I have a very resistant form of Ich in my tank, since I've been treating with high heat (over 86F) and meds for almost a month now. With the exception of one or two neons, all the other fish look good. And the neons that appear to still be suffering from Ich go through periods of no visibile ich to only one or two (all in the same day). I can't seem to get through one full day without seeing at least one white spot. SO very frustrating!

I'm debating whether or not to raise the temp again to 88/89, since I've already done that twice for at least 3-4 days each and obviously didn't work very well. I'm also contimplating switching meds, since it doesn't look as though the Ich Attack is doing that great of a job either.

It's just hard to find a good med that won't destroy my biological filter or harm my cories and/or plants.

I'll look into that med you mentioned. Do you know of any commercially available meds that are available (brands) that have that medication in it?

 

[FishLover66]

Alleluia!!!!! Over one month, three different treatment tactics, and two bottles of Ich Attack later, I think we finally have gotten rid of the ich!!! It's been three days of not even one pesky white spot. I can't believe how long it took to get rid of it. WHEW!

I can't wait to do a massive water change tomorrow and get that community tank back to normal!

 

[KISSfn]