Suitable tank mates again

[Beastije]

Hi guys, as usual and as everyone, I need help with some stocking ideas.

I have a 360l (90 gallon) tank, that for the past ten years housed some upper shoal of fish ( cyprichromis, then zebra danios, now past 3 years harlequin rasboras, last 7 remaining), and a colony of neolamprologus multifasciatus, with several cryptocoryne and anubias plants. I moved the multies away, I am planning to remove the cryptocoryne, keep anubias, limnobium cladophora and add either an echinodoras or some lotus or some other main plant, plus maybe vallissneria to the substrate.

My initial plan was hatchetfish, otocinclus and a harem of apistogrammas. But I purchased tylomelania snails and I love them and want them to prosper. They however require higher temperatures, around 27°C which is not suitable for everyone.

I am struggling to find a good combo, that would allow both 27°C, tylomelania and bamboo shrimp.

I think the hatchetfish could still go in, but not sure what else. None of the oto species do well in high temperatures, corydoras could (only hastatus/pygmaeus/sterbai) but I am not sure if they wont be bothered by the hatchetfish when needing to breathe surface air.

I cant think of any larger fish that would work, apistogrammas and dwarf cichlids would not go well with the snail (or the shrimp I guess). Can some of you recommend something I might have overlooked? Thanks in advance

 

[nik_n]

I don't think appisots and snails would be a problem, but I could be wrong.
Hatchet fish shouldn't bother the corries if they swim up to the surface every now and then.

You could go with rams they are a dwarf ciclid that need higher temps(27-28). There are a lot of varieties to chose from. Anglefish and discuss would both be a good option.

You could make a barbs only tank with different types of barbs.

Other schooling fish to consider: Rummynose tetra, culumbian tetra, pencil fish, neon and cardinal tetra.

You could different types of plecos (BP, rubberlip the L numbers etc)

Different types of gouramis are also a great option

Most of this fish are compatible with one another and in a 360l tank you have enough place to play around with. I would suggest making the tank a heavily planted one.

I find it helpful to go to my LFS and look at the options in real life. This way you might discover a fish you didn't know about before.

Hope this helps

 

[Byron]

What are your water parameters, these are GH, KH, pH and temperature--we already have the temp in mind, but what is the GH and pH of your source water--and tank water if different?

 

[Beastije]

Hi, the entry Ph is 7,5, according to the distributor, alkalinity is very very low, but other than that, I do not know. I have only NO2 test and ammonia and ph meter, but that is for my multies, as I am trying to rise the ph for them to initiate breeding. Right now the water parameters should be "middle" in this large tank.
I do not like overstocking, I always had two species max in any of my tanks, could have had more but I hate the idea of "fish soup", few of these here, few there...would rather increase numbers of one species than cramming in more. I do not think I am ready for angelfish or discuss, I never liked large fish and they are very specific if I am not mistaken.
I am also not interested in anything that will compete for food with the snails or possible shrimp, so no plecos.
I started reading about barbs, might not be a bad option to go with a five banded barb, it should not bother/stress the hatchetfish, does not require high water flow, will have to read up on their compatibility with shrimp.
I dont think gouramis are at all good combination with hatchetfish, since both are strictly surface fish. One of those would suffer.

Lets be honest, I am fairly lazy, I am ok doing water exchanges and cleaning (once a week or two), I like to feed and watch and make sure everything is doing ok and I am emulating their best environment, but I do not want to overstock or have a very specific requirements fish.

Watching the tylomelania, I also already know they wont support heavily planted tanks. My initial idea is to put a lot of driftwood in the middle of the tank up to the 1/4th of the water column, keep the sides bare with sand (i thought valissneria, but seeing the tylomelania bulldoze through anything I dont think so anymore), some cladophora for the shrimp. On top of the large pile of wood I would put few tiny branches, or maybe plant the echinodaras in a pot or something, so the bamboo shrimp have place to perch on to filter.

The hatchetfish do not appreciate duckweed, so am trying to throw that out, instead growing out the limnobium. I kept all the anubias now uprooted on the top of the tank and I think I will keep it, they reach the surface with only the top leaves, rest is up to 15cm below surface and the rasboras are having a blast in the leaves.

I am not even set on the coryies (though I have changed my mind for like million times about the stocking in the past three months, courtesy of the fact that I do not have the driftwood yet and cant move on to the fish ordering and have the option to change my mind), because thanks to the pile of driftwood I have planned (initially to be as a hiding place for the apistogramma), I do not know if they wont suffer from too small living space, since they like the open sandy substrate to sift through, and by halving that space with the wood, they would have to share the same space with the snails and the shrimp. Not sure if it would be enough for them.

I think, I am overthinking/overreading this, there is no perfect combination right, so not sure what am I trying to achieve. Maybe to have the tylomelania to breed, have shrimp to breed, have the bamboo shrimp be happy and not bothered. I know no (small) shrimp can live with apistogramma, and based on the apistogramma forums, if you want to breed them, you cant have any other "schooling" fish cause they would eat the young. So it is either breed the apistos and have only hatchetfish, definitely no coryies ( they bother the apisto and end up dead), no plecos. Or you do not breed the apisto, so you do not buy a female at all and then you can have a schooling fish as well.

Maybe someone can shake me and force me to finally accept one thing and stop changing my mind and waste everyone's time

 

[itiwhetu]

Can you put a photo of your tank so we can get a feel for it, Thanks

 

[Beastije]

This was the latest picture 3 weeks ago, currently there are no shells, the anubias on the left is swimming up with the 6 others anubias plants ranging from small to large, and there are 7 harlequin rasboras that are all over the tank. I have to make another photo, but in the dark, not now.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

There's so, so much to choose from, we're like kids in an excellent sweet shop, with only a small amount of pocket money to spend.

But money isn't the issue.
Being flush with money from a Birthday, going into that sweet shop and I still have the same problem.
Too much choice!

This is where MTS starts...and even then, there's still that dilemma of choice.

So...a possible solution.
Think what you want the tank to feature. A favourite species, such as your snails? Breeding something? Once you can focus on this aspect, the rest usually flows quite easily.

Let's take your snails as an example.
I like your idea of a wood-only tank, possibly with tannins in the water.
So what sort of the environment do the snails inhabit in the wild...probably something planted, so they can eat, but you'll be feeding them, so plants aren't essential.
What other fish inhabit that same wood-and tannin-water? Harlequin? Copper Harlequin? Barbs?
Are you to stick with SE Asia as a theme, or a non-specific theme?

At this stage, I'd be listing everything that would thrive in the water I'm providing.
I'd eliminate those I don't have room for, either through size, or shoaling needs.

With this shorter list, I'd then be able to think about lower, middle and upper tank spaces.

 

[Byron]

There is no way around the main issue...knowing the water parameters. The GH and KH...if the water authority can't tell you, a local fish store may do the tests. But without knowing these parameters, we really cannot be suggesting fish. Already in this thread fish with completely opposite requirements are being mentioned.

I also would not worry about the snails...fish have an issue with temperature far greater than snails and shrimp. Temperature drives the metabolism of a fish, because they are ectotherms, depending upon the temperature of the water to maintain their internal temperature, and they have generally speaking a narrow range.

I agree to remove the duckweed and get some floating plants like Water Sprite, or Frogbit or Water Lettuce. These are more substantial and easier to control, and they will provide surface areas for fish like anabantids, hatchets, etc. All of these must have floating plants, but they also need open water surface areas.

 

[Myraan]

In my limited experience hatchetts, cories and gourami (at least the gentle kinds) ignore each other. An issue with hatchets is jumping, main reason I have two remaining. The two remaining no longer hide for 3 hrs after every time I do something in the tank though.

 

[Beastije]

Hi, so I checked with my water supplier, I have 6,73°dH GH, PH is 7,9, but all my ph tests show 7,4 so, hard to trust it.
I can always slightly raise it with bicarbona and epsom salt to get to the middle, so that is not that big of a problem, or the wood and leaves will lower it in the tank longterm.
I may have problem with the hatchetfish with the ph, but they should be locally bred, the cories should be ok in this range.

I think I decided to go with the tylomelania, bamboo shrimp, 15 hatchetfish (to see if I have issues as everyone, but i have a tight lid) and 10 or so cories, and leave it be like that for a while and see how it works, if there is space for shrimp, or not, if there is space for some other schooling fish, but maybe after the harlequins pass (they are over 3 years old now).

I read about the cories more, and they will appreciate the hiding space in the wood, instead of it taking space away from them, so it should be ok.

Hey I actually have Frogbit, never heard this name for Limnobium.

Can you guys now, instead of advising tankmates (which will have to wait, but thanks a bunch for suggestions) advise on how to approach the remake?
I need to get out the cryptocoryne, which will increase the derit in the water column and the filtration. Do I turn off the filtration, do I remove the harlequins before taking out the plants?
Do I add more sand? And with the wood, do I add all at once, or do I add one by one and wait some time to see what is the wood doing? I found few in ponds, cleaned it and it has been submerged in clean water outside now for three weeks.
Also do I add the wood right away, or give the tank few days (after adding the sand and removing the plants) to clean up.

I know how to approach a fresh tank, but remaking a running one is somehow different
Thanks!

 

[Essjay]

If you have a hardness of 6.73 dH, you need to lower the pH rather than raise it. You have soft water and soft water fish prefer a pH below 7. If you have low alkalinity (also called KH) as mentioned in post #4 the pH will drift downwards which is fine.

Why do you want to remove the cryptocoryne? The more plants the better as far as fish are concerned.

 

[Beastije]

Why do you want to remove the cryptocoryne? The more plants the better as far as fish are concerned.

After 10 years I am tired of it. It is also used to harder water, I had the tank filled with calcium limestone and stuff for tanganyika, also the plant is very touchy feely about water changes, too cold or too big a change, it sheds leaves (though it grows them back quite quickly) and it pollutes water. Also it is around 100 cm long, the leaves are filling most of the water surface, which is no longer desirable. I am excited for new plants, maybe some lotus, echinodorus and will see. Will give this one away, maybe someone will enjoy it.
Let me post a picture of how it started 10 years ago

 

[Essjay]

Fair enough

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

I was going to suggest simply cutting it back...but then I remembered that these are slow, slow growers.

 

[Myraan]

I often wonder if my crypto is dead then i notice the young fresh leaves in the middle.

I think they are opposite of delicate though.... mine spent months smothered by black algae, then months more literally underneath a new piece of wood I'd bought. On removing and re-arranging my hardscape to make both more hiding places and sand space for corries and also more places to plant - it turned out to be alive, but even now it seems to make the nano anubias look like a fast grower.