Stumped On Fishless Cycle

[the_lock_man]

No plants at all.  Right now Im skint anyway, just got a new pup, so cant afford any fish lol, give it another couple of weeks then it has to be ready, also give me chance to clean up the serious fluffy brown algae problem I now have! Thanks

 
Fair enough. I would see get a second opinion on the nitrate though.
 

I have a bit of a conundrum in that my fishless cycle seems to have speeded up extremely quickly since 6am this morning when ammonia was 4ppm which it had been every day since I added it 6 days ago. I know you should wait for the ammonia to start dropping before testing for nitrites but I thought I'd give it a go. To my surprise nitrItes was somewhere between 2-5ppm (can't tell the difference tbh!) API master test kit, but it shows that something is happening. Could it be the mature gravel I added yesterday? Would it work so quickly?
At 10.30am, nitrAtes are 20-40ppm starting on day 1 at 5ppm and no water changes since I started the process. Checked the ammonia level again and it was 2ppm! Am now panicking in case the ammonia plummets drastically whilst I am at work (evening shift) and the bacteria stall. I will be away for 9 hours or so. Should I top it up to 4ppm again before I go to work or wait and see? I know that ammonia and nitrItes have to be able to be processed to 0 within 24hrs several times and nitrAtes should be off the scale. Then a huge water change before adding fish. I wasn't planning on stocking it so soon as thought the process would take weeks! Not days!
Once it's fully cycled what level of ammonia should I be trying for to keep it ticking over til I can stock it?

 
THat is certainly shifting nicely. The bacteria will be fine overnight, it seems to work best by only dosing once a day. You need to be seeing Double Zeros after 12 hours for a week to call yourself cycled. It could be down to gravel, although most of your bacteria live in the filter, it seems that in some tanks, a significant amount of bacteria can live in the gravel too.

 

[Mamashack]

THat is certainly shifting nicely. The bacteria will be fine overnight, it seems to work best by only dosing once a day. You need to be seeing Double Zeros after 12 hours for a week to call yourself cycled. It could be down to gravel, although most of your bacteria live in the filter, it seems that in some tanks, a significant amount of bacteria can live in the gravel too.

Thanks lockman - having recently been thoroughly chastised about how high I advised someone to dose with ammonia for fishless cycling I am now confused as to what level I should be topping up to. I said 4ppm as per articles and TFF calculator, but someone thinks I am being wreckless and should be dosing to 2ppm maximum. What do you think I should be aiming for from now on in the cycling tank?
It's 2ppm tonight, but I had removed both bags of the gravel and suspended it back in the 60L tank before I went to work as there was a slight spike in nitrItes to 0.25ppm and the main tank had gone cloudy. I also did a 30% pwc. Apart from removing 2 cups of gravel yesterday, the only thing I did different this morning was to treat my platies to half a cube of frozen bloodworm. Thankfully the cloudiness and the nitrIte have both disappeared this evening but I have left one bag of gravel in the main tank and suspended the 2nd one back in the cycling tank.
It's a tense time! lol

 

[the_lock_man]

I read the thread last night, and made my thoughts on that subject very clear.

What he/she said is probably right, their technical knowledge appears to be well researched and therefore accurate. I'll PM you with some further opinions.

 

[Mamashack]

Thanks lock_man. The ammonia is at 1ppm this morning so the single bag of mature gravel overnight seems to be helping since it hardly moved yesterday without the mature gravel in place. Now I have to decide 2ppm or 4ppm to top up to. Should I wait til it hits 0 to top up or could I do it now? Questions, questions!!

 

[Mamashack]

Ok so the ammonia was down to 0.5ppm this evening so I've topped it up and it's now reading between 2-4ppm again - I was aiming for 3ppm so that's about right. Will test again in the morning and see how it goes.
Other water results today were pH=7.8, NO2=2-5ppm, NO3=40-80ppm and temp=28-29°C so things look to be moving quite rapidly. I'll not count my chickens just yet and I suspect it's the gravel that kick-started it all, but I'm really chuffed so far!

 

[kad191]

My tank cycled within a couple of days after adding mature media. Sounds like your ready for some fish!

 

[Mamashack]

Thanks kad. I'm a bit wary of wading in at this stage with fish. I'll see what happens to the ammonia I've just added and then keep an eye on things for a week or so. Am thinking of getting a Plakat betta (purple if I can), but haven't completely made my mind up yet. There's no rush so I'll keep doing the testing whilst I make my mind up

 

[kad191]

Before you do just make sure the ammonia has dropped right off. The bacteria for converting nitrites to nitrates takes longer to mature so keep an eye on the levels if you put some fish in.

 

[Mamashack]

I suspect it's the mature gravel that's got it all going. Not sure what to do with it once I get "fully-cycled" results. Presumably take it out after a while and see what happens to the test results? Don't want to leave it in there as there's some garish pink and blue bits in it that would drive me crazy! lol

 

[kad191]

If your not going to leave it in once the fish are in, i'd take it out now and keep the ammonia steady and check the tests, then stop adding ammonia and it should drop to 0ppm within a day or two. If you could leave the gravel in for a while i bet you could add fish almost immediatly as long as the ammonia and nitrite dissapeares

 

[the_lock_man]

Assuming it is the gravel, taking it out again is going to remove the bacteria. I would suggest changing over gradually.

 

[Mamashack]

Assuming it is the gravel, taking it out again is going to remove the bacteria. I would suggest changing over gradually.

So would gradually reducing the amount of mature gravel in the bag (unused stocking foot) be the way to go once it's fully cycled?

Would anyone be interested in seeing the cycle log? Have tried to keep an accurate record of what's happened and when, but don't want to post anything that's going to take up a lot of room and be boring! lol

 

[the_lock_man]

Assuming it is the gravel, taking it out again is going to remove the bacteria. I would suggest changing over gradually.

So would gradually reducing the amount of mature gravel in the bag (unused stocking foot) be the way to go once it's fully cycled?


Would anyone be interested in seeing the cycle log? Have tried to keep an accurate record of what's happened and when, but don't want to post anything that's going to take up a lot of room and be boring! lol

Yes. Change over gradually.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

You can also probably just add that "bag" of gravel to the filter and then it would be "out of sight - out of mind".  I used mature media like that to finish my cycle - back in the day.  I just took bits of it out each week - after the first 6 weeks of "fully cycled" results.  After that I took a bit here and a bit there out, and replaced it with ceramics in a mesh bag, to seed future filters, as needed.
 
 
If you have the space in the filter, put the old gravel in there, and you won't have an eye sore staring at you each time you look at the tank.

 

[Mamashack]

You can also probably just add that "bag" of gravel to the filter and then it would be "out of sight - out of mind".  I used mature media like that to finish my cycle - back in the day.  I just took bits of it out each week - after the first 6 weeks of "fully cycled" results.  After that I took a bit here and a bit there out, and replaced it with ceramics in a mesh bag, to seed future filters, as needed.
 
 
If you have the space in the filter, put the old gravel in there, and you won't have an eye sore staring at you each time you look at the tank.

That's an excellent idea! Thanks Eagles - I'll do that!!!
I topped up to 2ppm last night and when 12 hours is up, I'll test it to see where it is. It had dropped from 3ppm to 0.5ppm in 24hours so we're on our way! The nitrIte was 2-5ppm again, but it could have been nearer 5ppm the first time and then nearer 2ppm the 2nd time. Will check that again too with the ammonia. NitrAtes had gone up from 10-20 to 40-80ppm (all API) so fingers crossed I could be cycled soon!!!