//stuarts New Tank Cycle

[waterdrop]

Agree with Tom, it just needs time to happen, you sound like you've got everything right.

Mature media seeding is a wonderful and usually reliable thing but it is not guaranteed that you will get a "take." Sometimes the bacteria just don't like being moved and they all die off or just give a long pause before springing back into action.

If mature media were not part of the picture we would say that it can often take two weeks, rarely 3 weeks before the first drop of ammonia from the original dose of 4-5ppm down to zero ppm. It sometimes just sits there showing 4-5ppm for days on end and then suddenly drops very rapidly (a lot of fishless cycling is like this.)

[It's like the newly pregnant mom with the new baby room, wallpaper, crib, colors and everything but then having 9 months to wait, lol. Our two autotrophic species are very, very slow growers!]

~~waterdrop~~

 

[//stuart]

Thanks for your comments. I'll cross my fingers !

 

[Joshwainwright]

Things should progress for you, hopefully you will be luckier than me and won't get stuck on 2ppm of ammonia for a week!

 

[//stuart]

Just an update...

Day  Date   PH    PH(high)  Ammonia  Nitrate   Nitrite
13    3Mar  ---   ---       4ppm     ----      0ppm
14    4Mar  ---   ---       3ppm     10ppm     0ppm
15    5Mar  7.6   7.4       3ppm     15ppm     0ppm

Looks like things are moving very slowly, but also a bit strange, as I'm getting absolutely no NitRITE but my nitRATE is going up!

I'm wondering that because I added some filter media, that I have very few A bacteria, but some N bacteria, so I'm sort of doing cycle 1 and 2 at the same time ?!?

So the Ammonia is dropping and turning into RITE, which is instantly being munched into RATE - does this sound likely?

I've never had a reading for NitRITE at all.

 

[Little_Nemo]

There could possibly be an error in yor nitrate test? Thats one you have to be careful with.

10 drops of bottle one, then shake.
Then shake bottle two for 30 seconds and a couple of taps on a hard surface.
Then add 10 drops, and shake the tube for a minute, and leave to rest for 5 minutes.

I've made a few errors with this one before, and had to perform them again...

Other than that maybe someone else could explain whats happening.

 

[waterdrop]

If the A-Bacs are producing nitrite very slowly then there can be enough (even early on) N-Bacs to simply process that nitrite(NO2) on into nitrate(NO3) without there being any excess nitrite left over for you to measure. Remember that any nitrite we see is the -excess- that your N-Bacs can't process. On the other hand, nitrate(NO3) tests are notoriously flakey, so you always have to take any given test with grain of salt and rely more on the larger trends in your notebook log.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[BIG BAD BARRY]

Stuart, lets not worry about the nitrate for the moment and see if we can get things moving.

On day 9 you did a 80% water change and yet the ammonia level was still at 4ppm. This suggests that the initial dosing was probably in excess of 5ppm.
It is difficult to extrapolate values when the colours are very similar and lighting conditions vary. Only the extreme ranges are easily identified and the in between is just that!

You say the tank is 95L. In all likelyhood it is probably less.
You need to measure the tank internally up to the fill level and calculate the exact volume. You can take some volume away for substrate and decor if you have already added it.

What strength ammonia are you using? and how much did you add?

You need to enter all the correct details into the ammonia calculator to get the accurate dosing ammount.
To accurately measure the ammonia use a syringe.
You can always wait 30 mins after dosing and test to confirm it is correct.

Keep the test tubes clean by rinsing them fully including the caps. The ammonia test solution needs a good rinse.

I would leave thing as they are and wait for the ammoia to drop to 0ppm and then re-dose following the above and then start testing for nitrite.

 

[//stuart]

On day 9 you did a 80% water change and yet the ammonia level was still at 4ppm. This suggests that the initial dosing was probably in excess of 5ppm.

Correct, but I re-dosed with pure ammonia after up to the 4ppm level.

You say the tank is 95L. In all likelyhood it is probably less.
You need to measure the tank internally up to the fill level and calculate the exact volume. You can take some volume away for substrate and decor if you have already added it.

Correct, I measured the volume of liquid in the tank, think I worked on 83L.

What strength ammonia are you using? and how much did you add?

9.5% from boots, added 4ml.

To accurately measure the ammonia use a syringe.

I'm using a syringe!

Keep the test tubes clean by rinsing them fully including the caps. The ammonia test solution needs a good rinse.

I would leave thing as they are and wait for the ammoia to drop to 0ppm and then re-dose following the above and then start testing for nitrite.

Thanks for your advice, I'm going to sit and wait and see what happens!


As people have different speeds of initial processing of the ammonia, is this purely to do with how many A bacs are in the tap water to start with? Where does the initial A bac come from ?

 

[BIG BAD BARRY]

On day 9 you did a 80% water change and yet the ammonia level was still at 4ppm. This suggests that the initial dosing was probably in excess of 5ppm.

Correct, but I re-dosed with pure ammonia after up to the 4ppm level.

Ok. If you make a slight adjustment on your log to indicate where you dose that would be good. Your post from the 1st indicated ammonia was constant.
Some ammonia would have remained in the tank so could have held you up a bit longer.
We know that your cycle is moving as ammonia is being processed.

You say the tank is 95L. In all likelyhood it is probably less.
You need to measure the tank internally up to the fill level and calculate the exact volume. You can take some volume away for substrate and decor if you have already added it.

Correct, I measured the volume of liquid in the tank, think I worked on 83L.

Great.

What strength ammonia are you using? and how much did you add?

9.5% from boots, added 4ml.

Good.

To accurately measure the ammonia use a syringe.

I'm using a syringe!

Fantastic. Some folk have been measuring with spoons!

Keep the test tubes clean by rinsing them fully including the caps. The ammonia test solution needs a good rinse.

I would leave thing as they are and wait for the ammoia to drop to 0ppm and then re-dose following the above and then start testing for nitrite.

Thanks for your advice, I'm going to sit and wait and see what happens!


As people have different speeds of initial processing of the ammonia, is this purely to do with how many A bacs are in the tap water to start with? Where does the initial A bac come from ?

The slow start can be off putting sometimes but when the A bac colony starts getting established it easily munches through the ammonia.
Then we start worrying about the N bacs!

A water change can kick start a cycle sometimes but generally that is later in the cycle when nitrite hangs around.
Hopefully you are not far off.

The bacteria are in tap water as far as i recall but the experts can verify that.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, the two species (genetic range sets really) of chemolithoautotrophic bacteria (Nitrosomonas spp. and Nitrospira spp.) that we want (along with hundreds of other species, many more heterotrophic than autotrophic) are virtually always present in the tap water. Many types of bacteria and algae are present throughout the same environment we inhabit and it is quite difficult -not- to have them. The job of chlorination or chloramination of the tap water is to lower the bacterial load in the water while it is in the pipes to levels that keep the pipes more clean of biofilms and below the levels where humans get sick but it does not generally completely clear the water of microorganisms.

As soon as we treat our water with dechlorination/dechloramination products we allow the freshwater body to repopulate with all the hundreds of species of bacteria and algae and perhaps other microorganisms and they all begin finding their micro-niches. When we seek the right temperature, freshness, oxygenation, hardness and pH for our bacterial growing soup, we are just trying to encourage our desired species to get enough of an edge over the other microorganisms and environment that they can flourish.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[//stuart]

Following all your advice above, todays readings are....

Day  Date   PH    PH(high)  Ammonia  Nitrate   Nitrite
16    6Mar  ---   ---       3ppm     40ppm     0ppm

So RATE is going up dramatically (definitely red in colour), whilst RITE is very pale blue as usual. Ammonia seems to be getting clearer dark green, but still very dark green!

 

[waterdrop]

It could be that you got a pretty good "take" of your N-Bacs. WD

 

[//stuart]

Day  Date   PH    PH(high)  Ammonia  Nitrate   Nitrite
17    7Mar  ---   ---       3ppm     40ppm     0ppm
18    8Mar  ---   ---       2ppm     40ppm     0ppm

 

[waterdrop]

 

[//stuart]

18 days is a lot slower than I was expecting for the 1st cycle, and I'm still not near that magical zero !