Stressed, Shocked, Possibly Injured Betta

[soritan]

So, my joy at seeing Furin in the 10gal was very shortlived. After a day of swimming and investigating, it seems that he exhausted himself and can no longer race around the tank.

• He was fine on day 1, quite frisky. Swimming all over, investigating, eating nematodes, hunting shrimp (he never did anything when he actually found them, honestly), and flaring at my ADFs... for about 8 seconds or so. He flared alot at Sori, who he can see sitting on my desk. I had to rearrange my desk so they couldn't see each other. He honestly seemed totally uneffected by ALL current in the tank.
• I have live hornwort in the tank, and it is tearing his finnage, I witnessed it happen, so his tail is a bit shreded. It seems to be healing very quickly, though.
• Day 2, he started to hide a bit, but I figured that was 'tank shock'. He spent a lot of time resting on a long stem of anacharis near the surface. Again, I figured he was just shy because the tank is so big.
• He got stuck on the intake on Day 2, for a few minutes. I noticed right away because I keep staring into the tank and counting occupants, I unplugged the filter and he eventually swam away, but he was definately shocked by it.
• I noticed today that he wasn't swimming anywhere, I figured that was shock again. I hand fed him his very first 3-4 frozen blood worms. Results were luke warm, they weren't pellet shaped and that confused him a tad.
• He got stuck on the intake on my filter again, this time for an unknown amount of time, possibly as long as 15 minutes, just today.
• He has been sitting on the bottom of the tank now for 20 minutes, and my filter is still unplugged. How long shall I let this continue before I relocate him to a bowl?

Tank Specs:

• 10 US gallons, moderately planted, bogwood, medium light.
• Tetra Whisper 10i, rated at 90gph, with the intake obstructed by a piece of bogwood, and a plastic curl obstructing the output.
• 80 F, constant
• My Ammonia and NitrItes are at 0ppm.
• My NitrAtes are 0<5ppm (I can't quite read the strip).
• Everyone else in the tank is cheerful.

I don't see any bleeding at the gills, or anything like that. He doesn't seem to be gasping anymore, but I do see his gills move. I turned on the bubbler, and he's reacting a little to the current. I do have a bacterial bloom in there (milky water), but I had read that it generally doesn't harm fish. The bacterial bloom began after I did my big water change at the very end of my fishless cycle.


p.s.
I was shooting for 'easy to read', 'less essay-looking', and 'complete'.

 

[ral]

You may want to wait for the experts... but I would either relocate him to a new tank and medicate him with a bit of salt (not iodized) or a mild antibacterial (meth blue...1 drop per gallon).

If you cant relocate him, I thinkt you can use meth blue to kill the bacterial bloom.

Keep the filter off. The water movemet would probably stress your fish. I have four betta's in filtered tanks (using sponge filters with five tanks sharing a weak 2.5W filter)... anyway 3 out of four died.

 

[soritan]

At the moment, I turned out all the lights and I've left the filter unplugged, but the bubbler 'on'. I occasionally lift up my mouse to see if he's alright (it's one of those ball-less sorts).

He does seem to swim a little bit. He went to the surface once for air. At that time, I thought he might be alright, and I turned the filter back on. He immediately got caught by the current, and I had to unplug it again before he got sucked up against it.

I don't think anyone is effected by the bacterial bloom, everything I obsessively read about it seems to point at the milky-ish water being fine, and that it should die down between 1-5 days.

I'm hesitant to rehome him so quickly, I admit. But if he's still shocky before I go to work, I will definately snag him up and put him in one of my shallow 1 gallon bowls -- which I always have ready with aged water to make for easy treating.

Unfortunately, my bowls are usually 74 degrees, and the aquarium is 80 degrees. Should that even be a concern if he's still shocked after x amount of hours?

If you squint, you can see him sitting in the bottom left hand corner.

 

[ral]

Try turning off the bubbler too and maybe lower the water level an inch or two.

 

[soritan]

I just tried to put him in a bowl, but the bowl is way too cold. I didn't do him any favors chasing him around, but I do take heart in that he was able to flee my chasing hand. He was always the harder betta to catch, of my two, because he was the better swimmer. That's why I put him in the 10gal instead of my other betta. I figured my other betta, Sori, didn't have a snowball's chance.

So, he seems to be able to swim in spurts, when he likes. Him and the ghost shrimp are the only folks in there that breathe through gills, so the tank itself should have enough oxygen if he's able to use his gills.

I don't have very many medications in stock, and I know that salt is bad for my african dwarf frogs. I had always figured that I'd be able to pull him out if he ever got sick, to medicate, but I didn't figure on the huge temperature difference.

Good research caves in when it encounters a lack of common sense, it seems. My 5g tank is totally empty, I could fill it, but I don't own, and I can't afford an appropriate heater.

Perhaps if he's still shocking, I can bag him and leave him in the tank, with the bag partways open....

 

[ral]

Don't worry too much. Betta's are hardy fish. Given everything, probably best to leave him be. Maybe give him a small food treat. Probably just needs time to rest. Had a few that looked down and out (thought one would die on me X'mass day last year... he was on the bottom of the tank and on his side)... he is still alive and healthy today.

 

[soritan]

Considering an ADF just sat on his head, I reckon he isn't game for treats.

He's definately on his side, and he's breathing less rapidly. I'm afraid running away from my hand did him no good at all.

I agree, moving him outside of the 10gal would be more trauma than he needs. If I had a 'breeder box', I'd put him in that, failing that, I do have the plastic bag my ADFs and Ghost Shrimp came in. I could clip the bag to the side of the tank with the top rolled down.

He was so happy when I first put him in there, I felt sorry for Sori and his couch potato musculature.


Furin, the one in the 10gal, is the betta I brought back with me, when I returned home from Japan.

 

[SRC]

As has been said in other posts...some bettas do well in large tanks, others do not. It's up to each fishkeeper to watch their betta and determine if that particular fish is happy in that environment.

Whether it be that he is wearing himself out patrolling, or that the area is just too large and it is stressing/freaking him, out you really should remove him.

If the betta was fine before being introduced to the larger tank and has become ill-acting shortly after being put in it, that should be an indicator he is not as happy as he was before.

Stress is what causes fish to become ill in the first place. Physical stress or environmental stress it doesn't matter; anytime they get stressed it can lower their immune system, leaving them open to a myriad of infections/problems.

I suggest to anyone wanting to put their fish in large tanks, that you do it in stages...don't just take your fish out of a 1 gallon and plop them into a 10 gallon. That is not only an environmental change, but a confidence (psychological) change as well.

Think of it like this, you go from being alone in the environment of your nice, comfy, safe bedroom to being thrown into the superdome all alone, amongst a bunch of other people you don't know or trust....I'm sure you would feel nervous and unsure of your surroundings...I feel it's the same way with the bettas.
Most other fish are kept in groups/schools, there is a reason people use the saying "there are safety in numbers", because in a group you feel alot more secure then you do when you are alone.

If your tank has only had fish in it for a couple of weeks, or if it is new and has had a lot of fish in it for a few days, then this is the most likely cause of the cloudiness you are experiencing. Unfortunately, the only way to get rid of this cloudiness is to have patience. As the cycle runs its course, this cloudiness will clear up—
http/www.firsttankguide.net/cloudywater.php

 

[soritan]

*shudder* *string of swear words inappropriate for mixed/polite company*

He just dashed his peacock tail to the surface and took a big gulp of air after hiding under a piece of bogwood for forever and a year. Now he's floating in a little corner in the top.

 

[soritan]

I suggest to anyone wanting to put their fish in large tanks, that you do it in stages...don't just take your fish out of a 1 gallon and plop them into a 10 gallon. That is not only an environmental change, but a confidence (psychological) change as well.

Think of it like this, you go from being alone in the environment of your nice, comfy, safe bedroom to being thrown into the superdome all alone, amongst a bunch of other people you don't know or trust....I'm sure you would feel nervous and unsure of your surroundings...I feel it's the same way with the bettas.
Most other fish are kept in groups/schools, there is a reason people use the saying "there are safety in numbers", because in a group you feel alot more secure then you do when you are alone.

It's an amazing coincidence that I used almost the exact same analogy in my original post. I actually took 20 minutes to write that original post, as I wanted it to be complete and I didn't want it to read like an essay -- a fault most of my posts seem to have that causes people to not want to read a single word I write (I assume).

I said, "it must be like being pulled out of bed first thing in the morning and being told you'll never get to sit down again," and "I imagine he's actually not physically fit, right now."

As I said, obsessive reading tells me that the milky water will clear, given time. My tank was fishless cycled over the course of a month. I did my big water change, and before I added fish, it became cloudy. I was nervous, I asked for advice, eventually got some, advice was OKed by google, and so I added my fish.

Ammonia, NitrItes: 0ppm after 4 days; NitrAtes: greater than 0, less than 5ppm (it's a medium planted tank with FAST growing plants, and 4wpg light.)


I am a researchy sort of person -- it annoys all people who know me to no end, especially my LPS. I thought my tank was betta friendly when I added the betta. I waited until I had a weekend free so I could observe him. He was honestly perfectly fine until he got caught in the intake. The current didn't seem to bother him at all, and he didn't seem to have to struggle to do anything.

I took quite a bit of joy in watching him swim. He was not franticly dashing to and fro -- which is what I thought he'd do. He ate so many nematodes in that tank, I almost didn't feed him his first day in. He was very listless and still in his bowl, though, so I suppose relatively speaking any amount of swimming about is 'dashing' for him.

I had planned on rehoming him to my 5gallon tank once it was done fishless cycling, but it seems I'll have to reorder how I had intended to do things.


*edit: run on sentance, content.
*edit: I talk way too much.

 

[ral]

Soritan. Try noy to worry about it too much. Things go wrong sometimes. Whatever happens, you are one of those trying to give a betta a better world to live in. We try different things. Some work some don't. The intention was golden.

Seeing stress lines on your side. Smile

 

[soritan]

Well, who needs coffee when you've got the wonderful world of aquatics?

He's floating behind my inactive filter, now. That, I can live with, because at least that's how he acted when he was in his bowl. Heh.

I know someone who has a spare heater that can heat up to 5 gallons, she's been trying to talk me into buying it for a while now. I told her I could, but I didn't have any money (this is so true, it hurts). Maybe if I appeal to her sensitive side she'll let me pay her Tuesday for a hamburger today.

For now, so long as he's sipping air from above, I can relax.

 

[FishEnthusiast]

Bettas with long fins sometimes have trouble swimming against the suction of the filter. Especially one who has been in a bowl. Like you said he probably isn't as fit as he could be.

What you could do is take some sponge or filter floss and put it in the intake of the filter. I used some filter floss in my 10G divided tank and it helped a lot. I have had the filter on both sides of the divider and neither my CT nor my VT have ever gotten sucked onto the intake.

It is worth a shot.

 

[Durbkat]

I hate those kind of filter (not whisper filters them selves just that certain one) I have one for my 2.5g (cam with the tank) but my betta kept swimming under it and getting stuck so I removed it. But you could take it out and turn it down as far as it will then you can cover half of the intake thinge with bog wood.

 

[soritan]

He's gone. I can see damage to one of his eyes, now. When I left for work this morning, he was sitting on some anacharis, just half an inch from the top of the aquarium.

While I was away, there was a power failure. I don't know if that had anything to do with helping him move along, but he's definately not with me anymore.

Below is a picture of him, the first week I had him. He built a bubble nest inside the $1 box I carried him in for the trip from one state to another. He was just a little kid.