Strange Readings!

[jaclynl]

Hi Everyone.

I'll give some background, hopefully not too long winded.

I have a 10 gallon tank, fully cycled and up and running for about 2 months now. I decided I wanted a bigger tank. I bought a 31 gallon and started cycling it a month ago. I took Ammonia up to 5ppm and it has not reached 0ppm yet.

Another member suggested a seed my new filer with gravel from the old tank (it only has an undergravel filter) so 4 days ago I took a giant scoop of gravel making sure to get it from the bottom of the tank and I put it into the bottom level of my fluval 205 in a nylon sack. At the time Ammonia was .25ppm and Nitrites were 0.5ppm

Ammonia is still not dropping to 0ppm but my previous Nitrate readings have now been gone for two days, meaning Nitrites have been eliminated, not that there were many to begin with.

Three Questions:

Ammonia is 0.25ppm right now, should I up the ammonia back up and see if it kick starts things with the new bacteria I added 4 days ago?
Is it possible that my Nitrite eating bacteria survived the transfer but not the Ammonia eating ones?
Are my bacteria in danger of dying if I don't feed them more ammonia?

Other stats:
Temp - 84C
Ph. 8.0
Kh: 5.5Dh
Nitrates:Between 0ppm and 5ppm

 

[Colin_T]

Moving gravel does very little to help seed a new tank. You need something that has water flowing over and through it so the bacteria can develop. There will be small amounts of bacteria on the gravel but not much.
The easiest way to set up a new tank (if you already have one) is to fill the new tank with water, add dechlorinator and turn the filters or airpump on. Allow the tank to run for a couple of days and then move the old established filter, fish and plants from the old tank into the new tank. The old filter will continue working on the new tank and the fish will provide food for it. Instant set up.

If you want to finish cycling the new tank, then keep the ammonia levels up and wait for the nitrate readings to start going up. Make sure there isn't a nitrite reading tho, because nitrate test kits will read nitrite as nitrate and give you a false reading. You want to keep the ammonia above 2ppm but below 5ppm.

The beneficial filter bacteria will die off if you don't feed them. However, they have dormant spores that will hatch out when food becomes available and the cycling process will start again. But it will proceed a lot quicker. It also takes a few days for the bacteria to start dieing from lack of food.

 

[jaclynl]

My old tank had an undergravel filter...this is why someone suggested taking a scoop of gravel and putting it into the canister, there would be no other way to seed the new filter as there is no filter media.

The ammonia levels were up, the cycle had started before I moved the gravel, but when I moved the gravel my Nitrite readings went back down to 0ppm, indicating that the bacteria that eat Nitrites must have started working. But I still have an ammonia reading, my question was basically wondering if that means I now have an established Nitrite eating bacteria colony, but less of an ammonia eating one...

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, your supposition that more of the N-Bacs (nitrite eating bacteria) made the transition successfully than the A-Bacs may indeed be correct. The idea that your old gravel had more bacteria than usual is probably correct also, I think Colin probably just noticed the gravel part and didn't see that it was an undergravel filter, or he would have thought so too.

But regardless, when you do this sort of "seeding" attempt, you just have to take the approach that you're in a fishless cycle and not change any of the actions of your fishless cycling process. What you do is hope you'll "get lucky" from the seeding, but you don't stop testing, adding ammonia and doing all the things of a fishless cycle. And yes, your bacteria will begin a "die-off" after a couple days of no ammonia in a running filter. The die-off will be slow at first but then get worse very fast.

So if you haven't already done so, just recharge the empty tank back up to 5ppm with your pure household ammonia and continue with your twice a day tests of ammonia, nitrite(NO2) and pH, performed about 12 hours apart and logged in your logbook along with date, time, temp, water observations, etc.

In all likelyhood you'll still have an accelerated fishless cycle due to your move of the gravel to your cannister filter.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[keenonfish]

I did the same with my UGF mate I think you would have to take a huge amount to actually make a real difference because I had the same probs as you but it was compounded by my ph dropping to below 6.4.

I think with UGF lots of BAC spread over lots of gravel so you are not getting as much bacteria per cm3 that you would in a sponge or ceramic doodles etc..

Just a thought!

 

[Jonty]

Temp - 84C

Wow - my heater doesn't go that high...

 

[jaclynl]

Yes, your supposition that more of the N-Bacs (nitrite eating bacteria) made the transition successfully than the A-Bacs may indeed be correct. The idea that your old gravel had more bacteria than usual is probably correct also, I think Colin probably just noticed the gravel part and didn't see that it was an undergravel filter, or he would have thought so too.

But regardless, when you do this sort of "seeding" attempt, you just have to take the approach that you're in a fishless cycle and not change any of the actions of your fishless cycling process. What you do is hope you'll "get lucky" from the seeding, but you don't stop testing, adding ammonia and doing all the things of a fishless cycle. And yes, your bacteria will begin a "die-off" after a couple days of no ammonia in a running filter. The die-off will be slow at first but then get worse very fast.

So if you haven't already done so, just recharge the empty tank back up to 5ppm with your pure household ammonia and continue with your twice a day tests of ammonia, nitrite(NO2) and pH, performed about 12 hours apart and logged in your logbook along with date, time, temp, water observations, etc.

In all likelyhood you'll still have an accelerated fishless cycle due to your move of the gravel to your cannister filter.

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks so much....

I bumped the Ammonia back up to 5ppm today so hopefully I start seeing some action. I'm not expecting miracles but after a month of no activity I'm hoping this is a good jump start.

Temp - 84C

Wow - my heater doesn't go that high...

Really? That's 29C, my heater goes up to 30C, so it's pretty much maxed out. Before I put fishies in I'm going to put in a second heater as a backup.

 

[Jonty]

Temp - 84C

Wow - my heater doesn't go that high...

Really? That's 29C, my heater goes up to 30C, so it's pretty much maxed out. Before I put fishies in I'm going to put in a second heater as a backup.

I think you mean 84 f, not 84c

 

[jaclynl]

Temp - 84C

Wow - my heater doesn't go that high...

Really? That's 29C, my heater goes up to 30C, so it's pretty much maxed out. Before I put fishies in I'm going to put in a second heater as a backup.

I think you mean 84 f, not 84c

Ahhh...sorry now I see