Stocking The Tank

[Fry_Baby]

So, I’m a fishkeeping novice but busy doing my research. I’ve swapped my TV for an Evolution Aqua 1500s. All 536 litres / 117.90 gallons of it, and I’m too excited to sleep!

I wanted to fill it with 8 Veil Angels - the most romantically floaty I could find - 4 deep black and 4 pure white, as my lounge is pure white with splashes of black, so I had a vision for the ultimate therapeutic, clean, contemporary effect - whitewashed wood, white sand and black stone hardscape.

I chose this number of Angels for the aesthetic, their comfort, and due to them being prone to being annoyed, aggressive, likely to bully /starve / eat their tank mates, and to avoid them being nipped at.
I’m getting my tank for my relaxation so want it to be free of fear, stress and murder!

After many discussions I’ve been advised to have at least 15 or 20 Angels , a shoal of 12 adult Runnynose Tetras (to reassure the Angels to swim freely) 10 Corys and 5 Bristlenoses (to clean up) a top layer of 12 Marble Hatchets and a lower-lying layer of 12 Boeseman’s Rainbow (I think the latter two are jut to ‘add interest’ and ‘fill space’)

Although my tank is large, it’s not the ocean and I don’t want to be cruel (It seems cruel keeping any fish in tanks really, but .. ). Does this seem a little crowded and unnecessary for my original vision of 8 veils to simply provide me with a simple, spacious show?

Also, I’m not loving the idea of a busy, colourful variety-laden tank, with everything avoiding everything and flitting everywhere, and possible conflict occurring. I’m going to have enough to contend with if the Angels turn on each other as that’ll be more than sad enough to see and sort out.

Thoughts, opinions, suggestions welcome! ?

 

[Circus]

If you like, you could always just stock with what you want. You don't need the other fish, really. I know there are albino corycats, if you do want a bottome feeder. I would not call plecos necessary either, but they can be useful. They are actually poo factories, so you can always just clean the glass by hand. They do sell Black Neon tetra, as well if you want to stick with your theme. If you want other fish, which is purely your choice.

If you want the simple look of the angels, you could just do the 8, or do 6 of each type you wanted (for a total of 12).

 

[Circus]

As far as aggression goes, you could probably avoid most of it by getting the angels when they are still young (quarter sized or so). I believe that is the general consensus, as I have never kept angels. But with cichlids, at least some aggression is to be expected.

 

[Fry_Baby]

Your reassurance that I’m ok to enjoy ‘less is more’, is good enough for me! Thankyou.
I really wasn’t sure about the number of Angels as I was told the more I have, the happier and more harmonious they are.

 

[Circus]

With cichlids, it is good to have a backup plan. If I did an angel only tank, I would get more than I wanted. Then you can remove any that are too bloodthirsty or relentlessly picked on. Most fish stores would take good sized angels that don't fit into hierarchy.

 

[Ellie Potts]

It all really depends on the fish; you may happen to end up with the meanest most hateful angel that has ever swum the planet. Or maybe you'll end up with one that just wants to cuddle like a little puppy (well, ok, probably not, but you get what I mean). I agree it's best to get them smaller and maybe to get 1-2 more than what you want in case that first scenario happens. Regardless, I don't think you have much to worry about it sounds good to me.

If you want dither fish that stay with the colors you've picked you could try black neons, panda cories, or others like that. Maybe lampeye tetras? I don't know as much about those. You have plenty of flexibility. You're right that no tank will be the same as a river or lake so it's better to cater your tank to what you like and go from there. If the tank makes you happy and you're not torturing fish, it's perfect. In my opinion, there aren't many hard nos in the hobby (aside from rule number 1, betta fish aren't for tequila bottles).
Good luck! Keep us updated.

 

[Naughts]

Many people regard angels as needing a species only tank. They require a shoal and a large tank so your original plan is perfect.
I had a bonded pair in a community tank. They ate/ killed every one of their tank mates.
They notoriously eat small torpedo shaped fish like neon tetras.

 

[Fry_Baby]

I’m addicted to learning about tank mates and working out what they all bring to the table. It seems everything is more than just a pretty face!
I’ve a while to go before my tank is ready for livestock but I’m having tons of fun wondering what to have in it when it is!

After careful consideration of possibly needing to remove some Angels as time goes on, I’ve decided to start with 20 long fin veils in a 117.90 gallon tank.

I realise it’s a good idea to have at least one school of dither / target fish. But I’m a bit confused as to which and why. Everyone says different.

I understand that Targets can break up conflict and Dithers distract and thus keep peace. ?

I’ve heard that some Dithers and Targets need Dithers and Targets...! Again - ?

Can and should two shoals of schooling fish be kept together with 20 Angels in 117 gallons? If so, which are recommended or loved by you guys and why?

personally, I’m really liking silver fish that will catch the light and sparkle, and move tightly together - like those huge swoops and swirly flocks of birds in the sky, making patterns and depths of shade. Is there any like that that can go with Angels but also serve a purpose of keeping them distracted and disengage them from fighting?

 

[Fry_Baby]

Oh my Goodness .... I’ve just discovered Diamond Tetras .... ? These are the look I was thinkjg of ..: but veil nippers ?

 

[Byron]

First, I will assume the tank is five feet in length, and roughly 2 feet in height and 18 inches width. My 115g had these dimensions. So with this in mind...

I would not acquire 20 angelfish, as they will be needing more space before very long. A group of seven to nine (thinking of maximum size) would be my maximum; one or more pairs could well form and that is where trouble begins, and moving the pair might be necessary. There is not much space for territories in this sized tank, and one can never assume how individual fish will enforce their territorial instincts until they do it.

No dither fish, unless they are a species that literally tears into angelfish, will alter the inherent instinctive behaviours of the angelfish. The nature of a fish is programmed into the DNA, and individual fish may react differently to environmental factors but nothing is going to change their inherent traits.

Initially, with a group as above, other peaceful shoaling species are possible. The disk-shaped characins (some of the "Rosy" tetra species like Hyphesobrycon rosaceus, H. megalopterus, H. sweglesi) in a group of 15-20 of the species are better than linear shaped characins. The shoaling fish need to be fairly sedate swimmers, so nothing like danios that charge around the tank is advisable. Substrate level fish like Corydoras are generally OK. Numbers of species depends upon the intended size of the group of angelfish, and the number of fish within the individual species should be sufficient to provide a more natural interaction, something which too few of each species with more species does not do.

While I was typing, Diamond Tetras (Moenkhausia pittieri) have been mentioned. These should work, though they can get a bit boisterous at times, but I would not reject them out of hand. They are beautiful fish, and need a group of 12-15 here. Floating plants really bring out the sparkle.

I've posted this video in older threads but it is one of the best examples of how the angelfish should be maintained to be true to its requirements and expectations. You can observe the continual interaction among the individuals in the shoal, exercising their individual dominance, but with this number in sufficient space, peace reigns, at least until a pair forms, which could change everything. In the comments below this video, the poster says the tank (7 or 8 feet if memory serves me) is rather small for these 11 angelfish.

Pterophyllum scalare - Wild Angelfish Rio Cuiuni - YouTube

 

[Jbram]

Look at tgreadfin rainbow fish. I kept a school with angels and they look great together. These rainbows are a smaller variety and have long colorful fins.

 

[Fry_Baby]

Hi Byron and thankyou for going to this effort to advise me. Very much appreciated! So, yes. You’d see on one of my first posts yesterday, I was concerned at the amount of Angels and other tankmates that several local stores have urged me to get. I originally wanted just 8 Angels. Nothing more. But every store has told me that I need to keep at least 15 - ideally 20 in my aquarium to ensure a peaceful shoal. Their logic is that there will be more peacekeepers than troublemakers in a large group, who coupled with ‘distracting’ dithers will aid harmony. This did make me concerned for space. Also, I’ve read that dithers such as Danios ‘keep peace’ between Angels by frying their brains with their dizzying activity. What a mentally cruel existence for the Angels.
And nor is it enjoyable to me to use other dithers that encourage the Angels into chasing them to distract them from each other. What an exhausting and frightening life for those poor dithers!

But they didn’t stop there. It was also suggested to me to make use of all the layers of my tank, with Hatchets, Rainbows, Corys, Bushynoses and 20 Rummynose Tetras - even Discus ‘as I have the room for both varieties to stay out of each others way’ - which even I know isn’t a good idea. I understand people do like to fill their tanks up but the suggestions for mine were making me feel uncomfortable - and visually messy! It’s nice to be reassured that it’s ok to create my spacious, almost monochrome set up.

My tank is indeed 5ft long, but it is 24’’ wide and high. Evolution Aqua Reef Pro 1500s 536 litres 117.90 gallons. It is replacing my TV and I intend it to be peaceful and relaxing. I’m not sure all of the above would make me feel very relaxed watching all of those creatures in that amount of space, spending their time anxious, searching for space or being eaten etc. I’m not averse to adding some irresistible temptations that I might come across, but not at the expense of comfort.

I am more than happy to go back to my original 8 angels and maybe add a school of Diamond Tetras (after more research), a bunch of Corys and go from there.

The video is breathtaking by the way. I’ll be sure to keep it!

 

[Fry_Baby]

Look at tgreadfin rainbow fish. I kept a school with angels and they look great together. These rainbows are a smaller variety and have long colorful fins.

Ooh, they’re beautiful and I had a little read about them. It sounds as if I might be a little too novice for them and I heard they can choke if their food isn’t mashed. I’m guessing the Angels then have to have their food mashed too? I’m finding it fascinating learning all these things though!! I could change my mind completely another everything bu the time I’ve even got my tank cleaned, equipped and cycled ! ?

Thankyou for taking the time to show this ‘new’ option to me!

 

[mbsqw1d]

Not related to Angelfish, but my 1st experience of dithers was ground breaking when introduced giant danio to my odessa barb. The barbs would mostly hide themselves away in the vallis, especially when someone entered the room. Once the danio were in they changed instantly and became another fish entirely. I wasn't quite expecting the swift and dramatic change but it was certainly a welcome one!

 

[Fry_Baby]

Of all the conflicting info on livestock and compatibilities I’ve come across over the months that I’ve been considering this hobby, it’s Danios that I’m most on the fence about!

I heard the coloured ones are actually illegal and may have even been tattooed or dyed their bright colours!