Yup, as above I'd assume 14 dH for long term - that's the (presumably more accurate) Thames Water tap reading. If it really is down to c. 10 dH (and I'm not sure I trust my readings/strips), that may be due to driftwood etc. I suspect in the longer term it'll revert to 14 dH, or close to.
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Stocking proposal for 125 litre (27g UK) – thoughts welcome!
- Thread starter nobo
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Yup, as above I'd assume 14 dH for long term - that's the (presumably more accurate) Thames Water tap reading. If it really is down to c. 10 dH (and I'm not sure I trust my readings/strips), that may be due to driftwood etc. I suspect in the longer term it'll revert to 14 dH, or close to.
You are still left with several fish options even with the tap water numbers. Use the parameter ranges on either Seriously Fish or WetWebMedia that you linked earlier in this thread. I personally know the owners/contributors of both and they are educated ichthyologists/biologists.
They are lovely. But the reason I have a 3rd tank is mine lived peacefully in my community tank for about 18 months and then took a liking for glowlight tetra tails. All of mine were shredded within a week. SInce this is natural behaviour I went and bought another tank and relocated the loaches. They are thriving in their new home and the glowlights have all recovered.
Driftwood won't soften the water. Your tap water may be different to usual at the moment because of all the rain we have had recently. Most of the water in the Thames Valley region is ground water which is where all the minerals come from. With all the rain we have had there is a good chance that there is more surface water in the supply than normal.
Hi Dan,
I have that tank too and wonder if the T5 bulbs fit into the Juwel hood fittings? Exactly which T5s do you use?
Thanks
To be honest, I'm not sure! I picked up the tank s/h about a month ago. It's definitely the older model with florescent lights which I'd understood to be T5s; and various replacement fittings are available with T5s (e.g. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B018IGTHVA/?tag=). I think the previous owner may have replaced the bulbs at some point, but I can't see any markings on them to give me a clue as to spec.
Thanks seangee. Interesting point. Perhaps also the substrate lowering the pH (it's maybe 0.5 lower than my nano, but with the same water source)? In either case, in the long term I think best to work off DH14.
That wouldn't seem to preclude the pearl gouramis, and if I can handle the mess/risk mixing substrate, certain corys (bronze best), clown or bristlenose plec. Kuhli loaches seems more of a stretch at max DH10... Will skip the dwarf chain loaches as I plan on moving over the glowlight tetras (they'll appreciate the space).
Given that this is a fairly new tank, with plants being added (though having difficulties there - https://www.fishforums.net/threads/plants-disintegrating-disappearing.457189/#post-3864580), is there a sensible strategy re adding fish? Need to be patient, of course, so don't want to risk anything unnecessarily.
My thinking was:
retty certain the tank is cycled - I've moved over some media and rocks from the old tank when first set up, added API Stress Zyme+ (double dose for starting aquarium), plus 2kg of biogravel in filter. It's had a month now and readings are good. In any case, I plan on moving over my 9 glowlight tetras from the small tank (leaving 5 amano shrimp there) along with perhaps half or more of the filter media.
Add maybe 2-3 appropriate (new) fish to the nano tank.
My understanding was that should "insta cycle" the tank; and adding a few fast growing plants at the same time would help address any unwanted spikes (hence the water wysteria and indian fern - though that'd didn't work out so I'll need some more and maybe some floating plants/use water sprite as a floater). Happy to stand corrected, however (especially before I move any fish!); I'm (as you can probably tell) quite new to think and despite having read up on various aspects over the past couple of months, there's so much more to know (and so many conflicting opinions to try to get to the bottom of!).
Then introduce new fish to the big tank at a rate of not more than 2-3 fish every 2 to 3 weeks.
That said, since the plants are still establishing themselves (and I'm planning to add more), maybe it needs longer to stablise (on factors beyond what I can test with strips) first ...?
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Fab, thank you, the link is very helpful.
BTW using established media and substrate does instant cycle a tank (I've done this) so no need to wait to add fish. And schooling fish are better when added as a complete group rather than 2-3 at a time as it reduces stress and allows them to sort out the pecking order quickly.
I've transferred the filter media and all 9 of the glowlight tetras. So far so good. They seemed very happy about the extra space and to settle quickly. It's amazing how lovely it is to see them in the bigger tank, and how much it's brought it to life.
I'll test the water daily or every other day for the next few weeks just to check all's good.
Fingers crossed....
Unfortunately I lost a couple of the tetras. Water parameters have been fine and stable, no spikes. So I suspect this is due to plants decaying in the tank (I was hoping they'd rejuvinate...) - or possible . I've removed them and I've done few water changes. Since that I've - for the first time - I've seen the glowlights breeding!
I'm keen to have happy, unstressed fished that are within comfortable parameters, so have spent an unhealthy amount of time digging round and researching all this. Here's where I'm currently at...
Keep tank at 25'C. Stocking plan (will probably acquire them in this order, unless it makes sense to do differently):
Since I have a pond snail outbreak (hundreds of babies!), 3-4 assassin snails.
6 or max 7 corys - maybe a mix of bronze and sterbas, since they seem most suited to harder water (20 and 15DH respectively; the rest - save for pygmies - seem to want softer and/or more acidic water). I gather best to buy them all at once. I'm guessing with this number better to stick to two species rather than three (which would be a 2/2/2 or 2/2/3 split), rather than 3/3 or 3/4. I figure best to get these soon to get the sand moving.
Pearl gouramis (1M, 2F) My understanding is it's really either 1M, or a 1M plus 2-3F. I'd probably be happy with one, but sounds like they'd be happier as a small group.
Get c. 4 more glowlights, so c. 11 in total (up from current 7). Happier and prettier in a larger swarm, no doubt. Though if any of the fry survive, I may not need to buy any!
Maybe a bristslenose plec (irrational love, despite the mess!) (up to 20DH/268ppm depending who you ask). Ok to keep on their own, I understand/hope!
More crustaceans ... For plants treated with insecticide I gather it's best to leave them for a couple of months before adding shrimp to the tank. I may ultimate move my 5 amanos across too to the main tank and/or get some other shrimp (ghosts?); and/or maybe a dwarf crayfish (or more than 1? conflicting reports on what works best/terrirotialism); and/or Thai micro crabs. And possibly a large snail or two that would not be troubled by the assassins for clean up duty.
At the risk of overcomplicating this, I was wondering about some alternative/additional fish. As above, I'm drawn to the more unusually shaped fish (e.g. loaches, catfish, gobys), and (pearl gourami apart) more natural colours (particularly since this is an aquascape tank). So other contenders are (I guess as alternatives to corys and/or plec, I guess, else I may be pushing stocking) might be:
Loaches of some kind. Yoyos? A weather loach or few might be pushing it (prefer up to 12DH; conflicting reports as to whether a min number is 1 or 3+). Scared dwarf chain loaches would nip my tetras fins, given reports above, and I'd have nowhere to rehouse any of them...
Syno polli (just 1 ok?)
Dwarf lake / rift lake / false cuckoo synodontis - I gather ideally 4+. Possibly Might be a decent alternative to a shoal of corys?
Botia kubotai - I gather 3+, ideally 5/6.
Whiptail catfish
Might any of the above be a threat to the glowlight tetras?
Goby of some kind? E.g. Rhinogobius zhoui - gather min 4 (2M, 2F). c. 3cm. But prefer a bit softer water (216pm)...
Oranged Fin Stiphodon (Stiphodon maculidorsalis) - gather I'd need 3 (1M, 2F). Grow up to 7-8cm. But prefer a bit softer water (216pm)...
Anchor catfish (kinda written these off as too small and unhappy with other bottom dwellers)
Finally, if I move the amanos, that leaves the 5g/19 litre tank empty. I'm planning on using that as a QT, until the main tank is stocked. In the longer run, I can see the sense in whatever ends up in there as being peaceful and compatible with the bigger tank, should I need to isolate/move back and forth/for fry etc. That probably rules out a tetra, so I'm thinking either shrimp (and maybe dwarf crayfish/collection of thai micro crabs) and/or least killifish (if I can find some). Though I might need a single sex group else risk being overrun with fry with noting to do with them, save add them to the main tank. I guess too small for frogs (and presumably bad tank makes if I do need to isolate fry). And as for celestial pearl danios, there are conflicting reports on whether a small shoal - maybe 6 - would be happy in 19L/5g, so probably best to err on side of caution and avoid. Still, I'm some months having to decide anything for that tank, so perhaps for another day.
I'm keen to have happy, unstressed fished that are within comfortable parameters, so have spent an unhealthy amount of time digging round and researching all this. Here's where I'm currently at...
Keep tank at 25'C. Stocking plan (will probably acquire them in this order, unless it makes sense to do differently):
Since I have a pond snail outbreak (hundreds of babies!), 3-4 assassin snails.
6 or max 7 corys - maybe a mix of bronze and sterbas, since they seem most suited to harder water (20 and 15DH respectively; the rest - save for pygmies - seem to want softer and/or more acidic water). I gather best to buy them all at once. I'm guessing with this number better to stick to two species rather than three (which would be a 2/2/2 or 2/2/3 split), rather than 3/3 or 3/4. I figure best to get these soon to get the sand moving.
Pearl gouramis (1M, 2F) My understanding is it's really either 1M, or a 1M plus 2-3F. I'd probably be happy with one, but sounds like they'd be happier as a small group.
Get c. 4 more glowlights, so c. 11 in total (up from current 7). Happier and prettier in a larger swarm, no doubt. Though if any of the fry survive, I may not need to buy any!
Maybe a bristslenose plec (irrational love, despite the mess!) (up to 20DH/268ppm depending who you ask). Ok to keep on their own, I understand/hope!
More crustaceans ... For plants treated with insecticide I gather it's best to leave them for a couple of months before adding shrimp to the tank. I may ultimate move my 5 amanos across too to the main tank and/or get some other shrimp (ghosts?); and/or maybe a dwarf crayfish (or more than 1? conflicting reports on what works best/terrirotialism); and/or Thai micro crabs. And possibly a large snail or two that would not be troubled by the assassins for clean up duty.
At the risk of overcomplicating this, I was wondering about some alternative/additional fish. As above, I'm drawn to the more unusually shaped fish (e.g. loaches, catfish, gobys), and (pearl gourami apart) more natural colours (particularly since this is an aquascape tank). So other contenders are (I guess as alternatives to corys and/or plec, I guess, else I may be pushing stocking) might be:
Loaches of some kind. Yoyos? A weather loach or few might be pushing it (prefer up to 12DH; conflicting reports as to whether a min number is 1 or 3+). Scared dwarf chain loaches would nip my tetras fins, given reports above, and I'd have nowhere to rehouse any of them...
Syno polli (just 1 ok?)
Dwarf lake / rift lake / false cuckoo synodontis - I gather ideally 4+. Possibly Might be a decent alternative to a shoal of corys?
Botia kubotai - I gather 3+, ideally 5/6.
Whiptail catfish
Might any of the above be a threat to the glowlight tetras?
Goby of some kind? E.g. Rhinogobius zhoui - gather min 4 (2M, 2F). c. 3cm. But prefer a bit softer water (216pm)...
Oranged Fin Stiphodon (Stiphodon maculidorsalis) - gather I'd need 3 (1M, 2F). Grow up to 7-8cm. But prefer a bit softer water (216pm)...
Anchor catfish (kinda written these off as too small and unhappy with other bottom dwellers)
Finally, if I move the amanos, that leaves the 5g/19 litre tank empty. I'm planning on using that as a QT, until the main tank is stocked. In the longer run, I can see the sense in whatever ends up in there as being peaceful and compatible with the bigger tank, should I need to isolate/move back and forth/for fry etc. That probably rules out a tetra, so I'm thinking either shrimp (and maybe dwarf crayfish/collection of thai micro crabs) and/or least killifish (if I can find some). Though I might need a single sex group else risk being overrun with fry with noting to do with them, save add them to the main tank. I guess too small for frogs (and presumably bad tank makes if I do need to isolate fry). And as for celestial pearl danios, there are conflicting reports on whether a small shoal - maybe 6 - would be happy in 19L/5g, so probably best to err on side of caution and avoid. Still, I'm some months having to decide anything for that tank, so perhaps for another day.
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My thoughts on post #25 (latest).
Snails...forget assassin snails. The small harmless pond snails are your best friend for a healthy aquarium. Snails eat organics which includes all fish excrement, any decaying vegetation, uneaten fish food. They break this down faster for the bacteria to handle. These snails will reproduce to the level according to the available food. They are beneficial.
Cories...you need more. Shoaling fish will always be in better shape the more there are, so when you have space for more than the oft-cited "minimum," have more so the fish will be happier (which equates to healthier and in better condition). Always. In this tank (125 liter, 33 US gallon) 12 is the fewest I would have. You could have 15. Don't sacrifice their health just to have other species, this is a domino effect with them too. Fewer species with more of each (assuming they are shoaling fish) is better than more species with less of each.
Pearl Gourami...Males are the more colourful, and have extended dorsal and anal fins. One male (no more) on his own, or with one or two females.
Loaches...never with Corydoras. And in this tank if no cories, you do not want Yo Yo loaches. And the tank is not long enough for Botia kubotai either. Assuming this tank is 3 feet in length, there are a few loaches suited but not these. I can suggest a few, but remember they are shoaling fish too and highly social so a group of no fewer than five of the species is mandatory. But the GH is likely going to prevent any of these, they are soft water fish and most that woould be suitable from a behaviour/size aspect will be wild caught and not manage. I would stay with the cories.
Rift lake fish...the GH and pH are suited but these are not community fish in the common understanding of the term.
The other catfish at the bottom of the post need a lot of research, and depending upon the other fish selected. With cories you have to consider things.
Snails...forget assassin snails. The small harmless pond snails are your best friend for a healthy aquarium. Snails eat organics which includes all fish excrement, any decaying vegetation, uneaten fish food. They break this down faster for the bacteria to handle. These snails will reproduce to the level according to the available food. They are beneficial.
Cories...you need more. Shoaling fish will always be in better shape the more there are, so when you have space for more than the oft-cited "minimum," have more so the fish will be happier (which equates to healthier and in better condition). Always. In this tank (125 liter, 33 US gallon) 12 is the fewest I would have. You could have 15. Don't sacrifice their health just to have other species, this is a domino effect with them too. Fewer species with more of each (assuming they are shoaling fish) is better than more species with less of each.
Pearl Gourami...Males are the more colourful, and have extended dorsal and anal fins. One male (no more) on his own, or with one or two females.
Loaches...never with Corydoras. And in this tank if no cories, you do not want Yo Yo loaches. And the tank is not long enough for Botia kubotai either. Assuming this tank is 3 feet in length, there are a few loaches suited but not these. I can suggest a few, but remember they are shoaling fish too and highly social so a group of no fewer than five of the species is mandatory. But the GH is likely going to prevent any of these, they are soft water fish and most that woould be suitable from a behaviour/size aspect will be wild caught and not manage. I would stay with the cories.
Rift lake fish...the GH and pH are suited but these are not community fish in the common understanding of the term.
The other catfish at the bottom of the post need a lot of research, and depending upon the other fish selected. With cories you have to consider things.
The tank is a Juwel Rio 125. I used to have one. It is 81 cm long (32 inches). Not quite 3 feet long, if that makes a difference.
I agree with the Cory fact @Byron said.
Also, if you ever plan to get loaches, you need to make sure they have plenty of hiding spots. (Let’s say you get 6, you need to have 6 good sized chunks of driftwood for them to hide in. They are territorial)
Also make sure you get a tight lid, Loaches will jump.
Also, if you ever plan to get loaches, you need to make sure they have plenty of hiding spots. (Let’s say you get 6, you need to have 6 good sized chunks of driftwood for them to hide in. They are territorial)
Also make sure you get a tight lid, Loaches will jump.
Thanks essjay. This wouldn't make a difference here as the "dwarf" species would work and not the larger common botine species, in tanks from 30-36 inches (75 to 90 cm) generally depending upon numbers and which species. The water params though are not conducive to loaches. The cories are still best for substrate level.
Thanks all - as always, much appreciated.
The pond snails will live for another day! There are multiplying at an alarming rate - the driftwood (azelea root - boiled first to remove tanins) is covered in hundreds of tiny babies! Having had a few plants disintegrate I'm guessing has fueled this. I guess the population will settle down as the tank does. As long as they're doing good rather than harm, I'm happy to have them. They seem to produce a fair bit of waste, but sounds like that's better than the alternative.
There's a good amount of hiding space - rocks, driftwood, etc, with quite a few more plants coming too. 3 of the rocks (the largest) are lava rocks, which I guess might not work for loaches since it's not particularly smooth/a bit bubbley looking.
I'd probably take loaches and/or catfish over corys, if that's viable, behaviorally and based on how they look. However, that may also be a foolish preference! Perhaps corys (and a bristlenose pleco, assuming that'd work) would be more fun/entertaining/suitable. I've not kept any of these before, so appreciate the advice and steers. Seems corys vs loaches divides some! But I'm not having much luck finding any loaches that'd work in the space and the water (assume DH14). So seems following Bryon's steer would be sage! Some people seem to have luck keeping corys and kuhlis, but since kuhlis prefer softer water than mind, they're out.
Yes, I assume I'd only be looking at dwarf loaches of some sort given tank. Cory wise, I'd prefer to stick to the bronze/sterbai/shwartzi cories rather than dwarfs. I'd read that dwarf corys are quite different in terms of behaviour - a bit less bottom dwelling, etc. And prefer softer water to my proposed corys, which are the ones supposedly ok with DH14. 12+ does - once they've grown up - seem like a quite lot for a tank this size, they'd be schooling rather than shoaling if all on the bottom! - but then I'm new to all this!
Assuming I go for corys, Byron, you'd mentioned on another thread that adding the whole school in one is the best approach. But adding 12 at once seems quite bold...? Especially (as per other thread) if I quarantine first in the 19L/5g.
When I get round to the pearl gourami, I might start with 1M. Perhaps add one or two females later, but no rush and seemingly need. Ok to quarantine them in the 19L/5g, given that they normally prefer more space? Though I guess even the QT could be an upgrade on stocking density from the LFS!
As an aside, in case it's of interest, when the two glowlight tetras died, the others started schooling/grouping reasonably tightly (stress, I assume) in a way they'd not before. When the dead fish were removed, they fairly quickly settled back. I'm seeing a range of behaviors I'd not noticed when they were in the 5g, including mating, and the smaller males chasing each other a bit. They're definitely enjoying the extra space. A pleasure to watch! I wonder if there's any sense in getting their number up (to 10-12) before adding other species - safety/comfort in numbers!
The pond snails will live for another day!
There are multiplying at an alarming rate - the driftwood (azelea root - boiled first to remove tanins) is covered in hundreds of tiny babies! Having had a few plants disintegrate I'm guessing has fueled this. I guess the population will settle down as the tank does. As long as they're doing good rather than harm, I'm happy to have them. They seem to produce a fair bit of waste, but sounds like that's better than the alternative.There's a good amount of hiding space - rocks, driftwood, etc, with quite a few more plants coming too. 3 of the rocks (the largest) are lava rocks, which I guess might not work for loaches since it's not particularly smooth/a bit bubbley looking.
I'd probably take loaches and/or catfish over corys, if that's viable, behaviorally and based on how they look. However, that may also be a foolish preference! Perhaps corys (and a bristlenose pleco, assuming that'd work) would be more fun/entertaining/suitable. I've not kept any of these before, so appreciate the advice and steers. Seems corys vs loaches divides some! But I'm not having much luck finding any loaches that'd work in the space and the water (assume DH14). So seems following Bryon's steer would be sage! Some people seem to have luck keeping corys and kuhlis, but since kuhlis prefer softer water than mind, they're out.
Yes, I assume I'd only be looking at dwarf loaches of some sort given tank. Cory wise, I'd prefer to stick to the bronze/sterbai/shwartzi cories rather than dwarfs. I'd read that dwarf corys are quite different in terms of behaviour - a bit less bottom dwelling, etc. And prefer softer water to my proposed corys, which are the ones supposedly ok with DH14. 12+ does - once they've grown up - seem like a quite lot for a tank this size, they'd be schooling rather than shoaling if all on the bottom! - but then I'm new to all this!
Assuming I go for corys, Byron, you'd mentioned on another thread that adding the whole school in one is the best approach. But adding 12 at once seems quite bold...? Especially (as per other thread) if I quarantine first in the 19L/5g.
When I get round to the pearl gourami, I might start with 1M. Perhaps add one or two females later, but no rush and seemingly need. Ok to quarantine them in the 19L/5g, given that they normally prefer more space? Though I guess even the QT could be an upgrade on stocking density from the LFS!
As an aside, in case it's of interest, when the two glowlight tetras died, the others started schooling/grouping reasonably tightly (stress, I assume) in a way they'd not before. When the dead fish were removed, they fairly quickly settled back. I'm seeing a range of behaviors I'd not noticed when they were in the 5g, including mating, and the smaller males chasing each other a bit. They're definitely enjoying the extra space. A pleasure to watch! I wonder if there's any sense in getting their number up (to 10-12) before adding other species - safety/comfort in numbers!
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