Stocking a 38 gallon freshwater tank...

[kayrenee23krc]

Hi! I have been cycling my 38 gallon for about a month and a half now, and my nitrites are beginning to drop (FINALLY!!!). I have an Aqueon Quietflow 50 filter. I have a mix of real and fake plants. I know I want an angelfish and have done lots of research on compatible tank mates. As of right now, I am planning on:
-1 Angelfish
-10 Cardinal Tetra
-5 Kuhli Loaches
- possibly a Gourami.
I know the cardinal tetra are kind of risky because they can be seen as a snack to the Angelfish, but I read that if you get the Angel as a juvenile and raise them together, they will see the cardinals as tank mates rather than food. I also have many hiding spots and plants in my tank so I figured the cardinals could hide if it came down to it. Anyways, I had originally planned on getting a Dwarf Gourami, but I read that the Pearl Gourami are much more peaceful. So now I am wondering how a pair of Pearl Gourami would do. I have lots of plants and hiding spots in my tank so I know they would be fine alone, but because I am already getting an Angelfish (who are known to be territorial), I am a little concerned.
Please let me know what you think or if you have any other recommendations as far as what to stock with. Thank You!

 

[Colin_T]

Pearl Gouramis are lovely fish but can reach 5 inches long and might eat cardinal tetras. Again tho, as you mentioned, if you get small gouramis & angelfish and grow them up with the tetras, they should be fine. And if you feed the fish well they will be less likely to think of the cardinals as food.

Plants don't help much when it comes to fish hunting other fish, and if you're blue and red like a cardinal tetra, plants are not going to hide you well enough from a hungry angel. But feed the angelfish well and you should be fine.

Dwarf gouramis are riddled with diseases including an Iridovirus and TB. If you choose to get one it probably won't live more than 12 months and will leave unpleasant nasties in the tank when it dies. Pearl, Indian Banded, Honey Dwarf & Sparkling gouramis are a much better option, with pearls being big but the others are small 2inch fish.

If you want any gouramis get a plant called Water Sprite (Ceratopteris thalictroides) and have it floating in the tank. You can also plant it in the substrate but gouramis like it floating.

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As for compatible tank mates, it depends on water chemistry, pH and GH. If you have soft acid water then maybe another group of tetras like Black Phantom or Lemon Tetras. If the pH is neutral to slightly alkaline and medium hard water, then maybe a school of Ruby, Cherry, Checkered or Golden barbs, or possibly some small rainbowfish like Melanotaenie praecox, sexlineata or maccullochi. Or some Pseudomugil signifier, connieae or furcatus.

 

[Byron]

I would not recommend angelfish and gourami together; males of both are territorial. This aggressiveness can vary depending upon individual fish. But another thing is this is not a large enough tank for both. The angelfish will fill it as fart as upper water level is concerned. Since the angelfish is definite, I would avoid any gourami.

 

[kayrenee23krc]

I would not recommend angelfish and gourami together; males of both are territorial. This aggressiveness can vary depending upon individual fish. But another thing is this is not a large enough tank for both. The angelfish will fill it as fart as upper water level is concerned. Since the angelfish is definite, I would avoid any gourami.

Thank you for responding. I think I have decided against getting any gourami because I don't want to risk territorial issues with the angel. Instead I am considering either getting more cardinals or possibly a bristlenose pleco.

 

[kayrenee23krc]

Pearl Gouramis are lovely fish but can reach 5 inches long and might eat cardinal tetras. Again tho, as you mentioned, if you get small gouramis & angelfish and grow them up with the tetras, they should be fine. And if you feed the fish well they will be less likely to think of the cardinals as food.

Plants don't help much when it comes to fish hunting other fish, and if you're blue and red like a cardinal tetra, plants are not going to hide you well enough from a hungry angel. But feed the angelfish well and you should be fine.

Dwarf gouramis are riddled with diseases including an Iridovirus and TB. If you choose to get one it probably won't live more than 12 months and will leave unpleasant nasties in the tank when it dies. Pearl, Indian Banded, Honey Dwarf & Sparkling gouramis are a much better option, with pearls being big but the others are small 2inch fish.

If you want any gouramis get a plant called Water Sprite (Ceratopteris thalictroides) and have it floating in the tank. You can also plant it in the substrate but gouramis like it floating.

--------------------
As for compatible tank mates, it depends on water chemistry, pH and GH. If you have soft acid water then maybe another group of tetras like Black Phantom or Lemon Tetras. If the pH is neutral to slightly alkaline and medium hard water, then maybe a school of Ruby, Cherry, Checkered or Golden barbs, or possibly some small rainbowfish like Melanotaenie praecox, sexlineata or maccullochi. Or some Pseudomugil signifier, connieae or furcatus.

Thank you for your response. I think I'm just going to avoid the Gourami and maybe just get a few more cardinals or maybe a Bristlenose Pleco. I had considered lemon tetras before as well so I will keep that in mind.

 

[Byron]

Thank you for responding. I think I have decided against getting any gourami because I don't want to risk territorial issues with the angel. Instead I am considering either getting more cardinals or possibly a bristlenose pleco.

I didn't mention this previously, but in fairness so you understand the options I will now. And that concerns the cardinals and angelfish. While it is true that some people say they have success in combining these two species from juvenile, others certainly do not. And the unknown factor is how the angelfish will develop temperamentally. I'll try to explain.

Angelfish are a shoaling species; they live in smallish groups (compared to the hundreds in characin or cory groups) and they develop an hierarchy within that group. In their habitat, this has no issues because space is literally inexhaustible. But the fish's DNA has this programmed into it, and none of us is going to alter that basic "expectation."

Where this takes us has to do with having only one angelfish. Immediately the fish is in a foreign and unexpected environment. It has no option but to cope with this abnormality. Individual fish may do this in various ways. Little scientific evidence exists to answer this issue, but we do know one thing from scientific studies with shoaling fish, and that is that when the shoal is not sufficient in size the fish usually become more aggressive. This is their only way to deal with frustration. Think of it like humans getting angry and cursing when something goes wrong; it is a natural reaction. Fish are no different. So trying to second-guess the outcome is not likely.

Once the angelfish reaches adulthood, at six inches in body length, and if it feels frustrated at its cramped quarters, that shoal of linear cardinal tetras may be seen as the target of the angelfish's frustration.

 

[kayrenee23krc]

I didn't mention this previously, but in fairness so you understand the options I will now. And that concerns the cardinals and angelfish. While it is true that some people say they have success in combining these two species from juvenile, others certainly do not. And the unknown factor is how the angelfish will develop temperamentally. I'll try to explain.

Angelfish are a shoaling species; they live in smallish groups (compared to the hundreds in characin or cory groups) and they develop an hierarchy within that group. In their habitat, this has no issues because space is literally inexhaustible. But the fish's DNA has this programmed into it, and none of us is going to alter that basic "expectation."

Where this takes us has to do with having only one angelfish. Immediately the fish is in a foreign and unexpected environment. It has no option but to cope with this abnormality. Individual fish may do this in various ways. Little scientific evidence exists to answer this issue, but we do know one thing from scientific studies with shoaling fish, and that is that when the shoal is not sufficient in size the fish usually become more aggressive. This is their only way to deal with frustration. Think of it like humans getting angry and cursing when something goes wrong; it is a natural reaction. Fish are no different. So trying to second-guess the outcome is not likely.

Once the angelfish reaches adulthood, at six inches in body length, and if it feels frustrated at its cramped quarters, that shoal of linear cardinal tetras may be seen as the target of the angelfish's frustration.

I understand. Is there any other schooling fish you would recommend that are bigger and wouldn't be as vulnerable to the Angel?

 

[kayrenee23krc]

I understand. Is there any other schooling fish you would recommend that are bigger and wouldn't be as vulnerable to the Angel?

Also I want to avoid live bearers so that the population doesn't get out of hand.

 

[Byron]

I understand. Is there any other schooling fish you would recommend that are bigger and wouldn't be as vulnerable to the Angel?

First, can you post the source water parameters? GH, pH and if you know it thee KH (KH not so critical here) for the tap water. These you may be able to ascertain from the website of your water authority if you do not already know.

Generally speaking, linear fish (cardinals, neons, rummys, etc) should be avoided as they are too easy to eat. The disk-shaped tetras like the Roberti, Rosy, and a few others are good. I may have more when I know the parameters, but there is another aspect to this, swimming activity.

Angelfish are sedate cruisers, as opposed to active swimmers. Tankmates need to be similar, as active fish can unsettle sedate fish, make them nervous. So you would not want Diamond Tetras for example; while a did-shaped fish, they are extremely active. I had to remove mine from the 70g and put them in the 90g for this very reason, they were unsettling the sedate hatchetfish.

You also want to find upper and lower level fish if possible, angelfish being centre-level. Hatchetfish for the upper perhaps, though I again need to know the parameters. Cories are often added for the substrate level; my only concern here is the substrate...from the photo is looks like small gravel, as opposed to sand? Is it rough or smooth?