Starting The Cycle On My New Tank Next Week :)

[Lady J]

Hi everyone,

Well, this is my first post!

I recently tore down my reef tank and now am setting up a small freshwater system. It's been years since I've run a freshwater aquarium so I have some questions; I'd like to begin as painlessly as possible! LOL

Goal for this aquarium: small shoal (probably 5) of German Electric Blue Balloon Rams, and hopefully 1 or 2 other smallish fish (still researching compatibility with the rams), aqauscaped with driftwood and a few lowlight plants. *I will not be diffusing c02 into the tank*

Stats: 30g. (36"w x 17"h x 12"d)
Filtration: HOB MARINELAND EMPORER 350 (rated up to 70g)
Light: Coralife Aqualight T5 Dual Lamp (2 x 39w.)
Substrate: 40 lbs. of Eco Complete
Submersible heater
*I may need to get a small air pump to run at night to oxygenate--not sure if this will be needed or not*

Ok, so there's my basic setup.

I will be doing a fishless cycle.

Questions:

1. I am simply going to toss some fish food into the tank to begin the cycle. However, I've read on here where, during the cycle, people added more ammonia and I don't understand why they did that. Doesn't that interrupt the biological process and force it back to the 1st stage of the nitrogen cycle?

2. I've read that cranking the temperature up to say 85-90 degrees and leaving the lights on 24 hours/day will speed up the cycle a bit---true or false? I can see where having the tank warmer would speed up the cycle, but not sure why leaving the lights on would do anything.

3. Is the recommended photo period 12 hours once the tank is up-and-running?

4. Is 79 degrees a good target temperature after the cycle is complete and fish/plants can be added?

5. I have been trying to find some compatibility information for the German Balloon Rams but haven't found much. What I would love is 5 Rams, 1 Betta and then something to help clean the tank. Any input?

6. What do you recommend for a(n)algae/detritus cleaner that won't get huge yet can keep the tank clean?

This is a good start and thanks in advance for any help/knowledge/information you can give to me.

 

[fluttermoth]

Hi Lady J, to the forum!

1. The trouble with fish food cycles is that they're very hard to monitor. If you do want to do it that way, I'd suggest letting the fish food rot down in another container and then add that to the tank. That way, you can test that some ammonia is actually being produced. 'Pure' ammonia (it's not really pure, of course, it's an ammonia/water solution) is much easier to work with.

All cycling involves adding an ammonia source, either from rotting fish food, pure ammonia or fish. Ammonia is the first stage on the nitrogen cycle and that's what your fish will be producing once you stock your tank, so that (along with nitrite) is what you need your filter to be able to cope with.

2. No, leave lights off for cycling. Light + ammonia = algae, and that's not where you want to be starting! Raising the temp is a good idea though; it helps the bacteria grow faster.

3. Generally, no. 6 to 8 hours is enough; any more and you're likely to just grow algae!

4. If you want rams (which aren't shoaling fish, btw; I doubt if you'll be able to have five in your tank; they are quite territorial; I'd go for a pair, or possibly a trio of one male/two females) you want the temp up; 82°F/28°C is the usual recommend temp for them.

5. Most of the larger tetras make good tankmates for rams, but you do have to check temperature requirements, Neon tetras, for example, aren't happy at ram levels, whereas cardinals are. I don't know enough about bettas to say for sure, but I don't think they're really compatible. No fish will help clean your tank; they always make more mess than they clean up.

6. There really are no algae eaters/detritus cleaning fish in freshwater. I'm afraid cleaning the tank is your job! There are lots of plecs that stay small though, if you want one, and a few corydoras species that are happy at higher tempertures.

One pointer; rams are a very delicate fish (and balloon rams even more so; I personally think they're a hideous mutation, but it's your tank )that demand extremely good water quality. If your water is hard, alkaline or has more than about 20ppm nitrate in it, you'll have to either re-think, or look at using RO water, either mixed with your tapwater or remineralised.

Hope that helps!

 

[Lady J]

Hi Lady J, to the forum!

1. The trouble with fish food cycles is that they're very hard to monitor. If you do want to do it that way, I'd suggest letting the fish food rot down in another container and then add that to the tank. That way, you can test that some ammonia is actually being produced. 'Pure' ammonia (it's not really pure, of course, it's an ammonia/water solution) is much easier to work with.

All cycling involves adding an ammonia source, either from rotting fish food, pure ammonia or fish. Ammonia is the first stage on the nitrogen cycle and that's what your fish will be producing once you stock your tank, so that (along with nitrite) is what you need your filter to be able to cope with.

2. No, leave lights off for cycling. Light + ammonia = algae, and that's not where you want to be starting! Raising the temp is a good idea though; it helps the bacteria grow faster.

3. Generally, no. 6 to 8 hours is enough; any more and you're likely to just grow algae!

4. If you want rams (which aren't shoaling fish, btw; I doubt if you'll be able to have five in your tank; they are quite territorial; I'd go for a pair, or possibly a trio of one male/two females) you want the temp up; 82°F/28°C is the usual recommend temp for them.

5. Most of the larger tetras make good tankmates for rams, but you do have to check temperature requirements, Neon tetras, for example, aren't happy at ram levels, whereas cardinals are. I don't know enough about bettas to say for sure, but I don't think they're really compatible. No fish will help clean your tank; they always make more mess than they clean up.

6. There really are no algae eaters/detritus cleaning fish in freshwater. I'm afraid cleaning the tank is your job! There are lots of plecs that stay small though, if you want one, and a few corydoras species that are happy at higher tempertures.

One pointer; rams are a very delicate fish (and balloon rams even more so; I personally think they're a hideous mutation, but it's your tank )that demand extremely good water quality. If your water is hard, alkaline or has more than about 20ppm nitrate in it, you'll have to either re-think, or look at using RO water, either mixed with your tapwater or remineralised.

Hope that helps!

Hi Fluttermoth, thanks for your quick rely!

Beginning the cycle with an ammonia product sounds fine to me--didn't know there was such a thing. lol I guess I still just don't understand why someone would add more ammonia during the cycle as it seems it would be forcing the cycle back to stage one and not letting the already present ammonia naturally convert to nitrites and then finally to nitrates.

I agree with you regarding leaving the lights on and getting a horrible algae outbreak. As I said, it was something I read and was surprised and a bit confused.

I cannot see how a photo period of 6-8 hours will be sufficient for live plants; I'm going to read more about it, but so far it seems that 11-12 are needed for sufficient photosynthesis to occur.

Yes, Rams aren't shoaling fish. I misphrased in my original post. I like your suggestion of only 2 or 3 as this sounds much healthier for them, especially since they are a bit territorial. However, I've also read that they are quite peaceful. I watched them for an hour at a pet store and was surprised at the lack of aggression. I'm not even sure I'm going to get any--they're just exquisite and certainly eye-catching.

I'm chuckling regarding the cleaning--I don't want some HUGE pleco in my tank that's going to suck its way out of my tank and latch on to my dog. lol And of course truly cleaning the tank is my job---been running tanks for 16 years... However, there are still little creatures that help in maintenance and I like the idea of a few little corydoras.

I'll have to test my tapwater because I don't know how hard it is and whether it contains a significant level of nitrates. The alkalinity can be buffered with driftwood and other supplements, but I really just don't know anything till I test it.

Any other thoughts you have, please share.

 

[fluttermoth]

Adding ammonia doesn't force the cycle back to the start. The bacteria need an (almost) constant source of ammonia to feed on (and your fish will be producing it constantly, through respiration as well as excreta) so it has to be added one way or another, whether that's through adding it 'neat' or from your fish food, or fish in a fish-in cycle. Most people use an 'add and wait' method, where you dose the ammonia and let it go back to zero before adding more; that way you can see how well the bacteria are processing it and how long it's taking before you risk adding your fish.

Honestly, 6 to 8 hours is plenty enough. My plants grow perfectly well with that amount of light and it's what's always recommended in the specialist plant forums. I know it doesn't sound enough when you think that these plants come from sunny, tropical counties, but it really is!

Rams are usually peaceful but like all fish, and especially cichlids, it does vary; I have had one or two that were, to put it mildly, a bit psycho!

Bristlenoses are a good choice of algae eater as they don't grow too big; just like a mini normal plec, I suppose, but they do poop and poop a lot! There are plenty of others as well. Corys are adorable little fish; sterbais do well at higher temperatures.

There are freshwater shrimps that a great for picking bits of algae off your plants, so you might want to think about some of those too, if they're compatible with the rest of you stocking

Testing your tap water is always useful as a baseline; freshwater tanks are not so easily changed with regards to hardness/pH etc as marines are.

 

[Lady J]

Adding ammonia doesn't force the cycle back to the start. The bacteria need an (almost) constant source of ammonia to feed on (and your fish will be producing it constantly, through respiration as well as excreta) so it has to be added one way or another, whether that's through adding it 'neat' or from your fish food, or fish in a fish-in cycle. Most people use an 'add and wait' method, where you dose the ammonia and let it go back to zero before adding more; that way you can see how well the bacteria are processing it and how long it's taking before you risk adding your fish.

Honestly, 6 to 8 hours is plenty enough. My plants grow perfectly well with that amount of light and it's what's always recommended in the specialist plant forums. I know it doesn't sound enough when you think that these plants come from sunny, tropical counties, but it really is!

Rams are usually peaceful but like all fish, and especially cichlids, it does vary; I have had one or two that were, to put it mildly, a bit psycho!

Bristlenoses are a good choice of algae eater as they don't grow too big; just like a mini normal plec, I suppose, but they do poop and poop a lot! There are plenty of others as well. Corys are adorable little fish; sterbais do well at higher temperatures.

There are freshwater shrimps that a great for picking bits of algae off your plants, so you might want to think about some of those too, if they're compatible with the rest of you stocking

Testing your tap water is always useful as a baseline; freshwater tanks are not so easily changed with regards to hardness/pH etc as marines are.

Hi flutter

Ok, I understand adding the ammonia, I think. lol What product do people use?

Question about the plants: right now I have 40 lbs. of Eco Complete substrate(still in bags--not even opened). However, the plants I will be adding cannot be buried in substrate so do you feel this is a waste of money? It's black which is going to make my tank dark because the back of my aquarium also is black. Could I just put in sand and then add fertilizer and iron, etc. and forget the Eco Complete?

I am outright laughing about your pshyco fish!!! OMG, some of them need therapy, I swear it. When I had my saltwater Midas Blenny, well, he would spit water at me when I approached the tank but only did it when he seemed annoyed (like once when he jumped into the overflow and we had a heck of a time getting him back in the tank). We can never fully predict what our animals are going to do. On that note, my other thought for fish are just 2 veiled angels but I don't know, it's only a 30g. long and that seems pretty small for them. What's your thought? I thought maybe 2 angels and 2 little corydoras. But, I also REALLY have my heart set on a betta. Ah, the dilemmas of stocking. lol

Regarding the tap water, it's taking time for my mind to think in freshwater terms vs. saltwater. I was using RO/DI but dang, you waste SO much water. I just want something simple, like turning on the kitchen faucet and then neutralizing it with chemicals.

 

[fluttermoth]

There are quite a few sources of ammonia, depending on where you are. Most people use a basic household cleaning solution (we do have threads/stickys here listing the types and and suppliers), or there's a product called Biomature that has ammonia it. Don't let you LFS fool you into getting one of the 'bacterial starters' as most people find they don't work.

I have my plants in sand and don't use any fertilizers and they do fine, although every tank is different. I'd use the eco complete seeing as you have it. Once you get the lights on and some plants in, it won't be as dark as you probably think it will.

Your blenny sounds a marvellous character! I do love that fish show their own personalities when so many people think 'they're just fish', though my worst ram was a nightmare; I moved her from tank to tank trying to find somewhere she wouldn't cause havoc

Angels, especially veil tail varities (I have one! He's got me wrapped around his little fins ) do need a tall tank; something like 18" of water depth. Corys need to be in groups of 6+ to be really happy but you honestly have plenty of room for those.

I know stocking is difficult; there are so many beautiful fish to choose from! I can totally understand you not wanting to mess around with your water after having marines; it's the worst part, IMO. I've never owned a marine set up, but I looked after one for a friend while he was getting divorced and I loathed the whole experience!

Get your tap water tested (or look online; most water companies post parameters somewhere) for hardness and nitrate and we can help you out with stocking much better. There's no point you getting all enthusiastic about something only to find they don't suit your water. Having said that, most tropicals are quite adaptable; there's only a few that are more demanding

 

[Lady J]

There are quite a few sources of ammonia, depending on where you are. Most people use a basic household cleaning solution (we do have threads/stickys here listing the types and and suppliers), or there's a product called Biomature that has ammonia it. Don't let you LFS fool you into getting one of the 'bacterial starters' as most people find they don't work.

I have my plants in sand and don't use any fertilizers and they do fine, although every tank is different. I'd use the eco complete seeing as you have it. Once you get the lights on and some plants in, it won't be as dark as you probably think it will.

Your blenny sounds a marvellous character! I do love that fish show their own personalities when so many people think 'they're just fish', though my worst ram was a nightmare; I moved her from tank to tank trying to find somewhere she wouldn't cause havoc

Angels, especially veil tail varities (I have one! He's got me wrapped around his little fins ) do need a tall tank; something like 18" of water depth. Corys need to be in groups of 6+ to be really happy but you honestly have plenty of room for those.

I know stocking is difficult; there are so many beautiful fish to choose from! I can totally understand you not wanting to mess around with your water after having marines; it's the worst part, IMO. I've never owned a marine set up, but I looked after one for a friend while he was getting divorced and I loathed the whole experience!

Get your tap water tested (or look online; most water companies post parameters somewhere) for hardness and nitrate and we can help you out with stocking much better. There's no point you getting all enthusiastic about something only to find they don't suit your water. Having said that, most tropicals are quite adaptable; there's only a few that are more demanding

Returning the Eco Complete is not really an issue--I have $400.00 in store credit so exchanging it for sand is no big deal. But, I don't know if the store has fine sand which is what I'd want. I guess it's just a matter of personal choice at this point.

My tank is only 17" tall so after adding ~ 2" of substrate, I'm not sure veiled angels would be too happy. On the other hand, if I only had 2 angels and maybe a few corydoras with good open swimming space, well, that would be a nice home for the fish. There aren't a whole lot of other fish that are catching my eye (except of course a betta) so I'm a bit frustrated. But, I do like the flame dwarf gouramis so they're also a possibility. I have time to decide seeing as I don't even have water in the tank yet! lol

Marine aquariums are demanding and as much as they were my passion/obsession, I now want to spend less time/money/work on a tank. I just want a beautiful freshwater system that only requires normal weekly maintenance and isn't costly to run/maintain. Maybe I'll just put a betta in it and be done with it!!! lol

Checking out my city's water is a very good idea. Aside from Discus, I don't foresee that any tropicals would struggle after the water has been chemically treated.