Starting From Scratch....need Your Help!

[Benson112]

Hi All,

So...rather than just creating a thread i have done alot of research first!

i am getting a new tank next week. Still not 100% sure which tank i am going to get but i have a few options (mainly on size)

So rather than going in head first and buying things then asking questions i thought i would ask them first and see how much help you guys can be.

I want a reef setup i know that, but nothing else is really set in stone. My only guidelines on being allowed a marine setup (by my wife) is that i get a nemo in the tank lol. So other than this we have a clean canvas to play with.

Here are my tank options:

4ft 182 litre - http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=110309508933

5ft 260 litre - http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=110312486511

Obviously i would rather the larger tank....however i understand that the larger the tank the more LR i will need...hence bumping the price up alot!

Also...i have been tring to read up a little more about this Sump malarcy but im still struglling to understand it all. What does it actaully provide me? Do i need to drill a hole in the tank?

So...the question is....if you had the chance to have one of these tanks...which one would you get? And what other equiptment would you purchase to get your marine set up running?

 

[ben1987]

The bigger the tank, the better usually. Does increase the set-up costs but you gain added water volume which is a good thing to have.

the more water you have -
the longer it takes to heat up, so your tank wont overheat as much on warm days
any polloutants will be less significant after being dilouted by more water
you can keep more fish/corals
more interesting aqua scape become available

a sump -
allows all your equipment to be hidden ( brownie points with the missus!)
increases that water volume further
give you the opportunity for lighting algae, using phosphate removers etc.

To run with a sump your best building a weir in a corner. Then google 'Durso' Thats a type of overflow, the most commonly used and probably the quietest.

You dont have to drill the tank, but its the best way. It is very easy so long as the glass isnt tempered. Your in UK right? Nip down to B&Q they sell a diamond tipped hole saw. Stick that in a cordless drill. I made a guide first by drilling into some thin wood so the bit didnt slip and scratch the glass. Then you go very slowly and just let the weight of the drill take it through the glass. Keep the bit cool and wet and the hole dust fee. My holes took around 10 mins each. Then at the end slow right down to avoid chipping. If you dont fancy doing it yourself then glass cutters will do it at a small charge.
There are overflow boxes available that dont need a tank drilling but have reliability issues and can flood your room when we have a powercut.

A sumop is usuall divided into sections using baffles. Mine is in 3 sections
section 1 - heater, phosphate remover, and skimmer pump.
section 2 - skimmer itself, live rock rubble and a sand bed. Soon to have a small light and algae
section 3 - return pump back to display tank.
The water travels through each section then back to the main tank.


Me personally i wouldnt buy either of those tanks. If they can afford to give you stuff and charge those prices i wonder what the quality is like. Also i dont think the dimensions are that great either. You dont need and external filter either. Basically the wider the tank the better. so if your getting a 4 foot tank i would want maybe 2 foot wide. That maximises the water volume and means you can make it look 100x better than a narrow tank. If i were you i would look round for a 2nd hand tank. The classified sections on all the fish websites is a good place to start.

Shopping list -
tank
sump and plumbing bits are optional
lights
heater
test kits
salt
RO water from LFS or better a RO machine to make your own
refractometor
powerheads

get tank runnuin at temperature and salted to right level. leave for a while to make sure no leaks etc. Then add live rock and sand.

 

[garybuk]

Hi All,

So...rather than just creating a thread i have done alot of research first!

i am getting a new tank next week. Still not 100% sure which tank i am going to get but i have a few options (mainly on size)

So rather than going in head first and buying things then asking questions i thought i would ask them first and see how much help you guys can be.

I want a reef setup i know that, but nothing else is really set in stone. My only guidelines on being allowed a marine setup (by my wife) is that i get a nemo in the tank lol. So other than this we have a clean canvas to play with.

Here are my tank options:

4ft 182 litre - [URL="http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=110309508933"]http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=110309508933[/URL]

5ft 260 litre - [URL="http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=110312486511"]http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=110312486511[/URL]

Obviously i would rather the larger tank....however i understand that the larger the tank the more LR i will need...hence bumping the price up alot!

Also...i have been tring to read up a little more about this Sump malarcy but im still struglling to understand it all. What does it actaully provide me? Do i need to drill a hole in the tank?

So...the question is....if you had the chance to have one of these tanks...which one would you get? And what other equiptment would you purchase to get your marine set up running?

Buy mine! coner tank 330L already drilled with sump!!!

But a sump is someware you can hide all your equiptment e.g

Skimmer
heaters
return pump
auto top up
you can add cheato in there with some live sand "refugium"

To get it up and running :

ro unit would make it easyer or you can travel to your lfs to ro
powerheads - cheap on ebay seios
Live rock
sand
T5 lighting or T8 if not keeping corals
Salt

Few other bits like hydromiter for cheacking ur salt level/test kits....

Check ebay .... keep checking always getting my bits from there for bargins !!!!

 

[garybuk]

Opps dubble post!

 

[Benson112]

Thanks for the replys guys, i had an inclin that the sump was something along those lines from what i was reading, but just couldnt find anything definitive.

So....Ben1987...were not so keen on those tanks? I understand what you are daying about the width, didnt really think of that. These were the options raelly because of price, distance to my house etc. But this doesnt mean i cant look else where. Thanks for the shopping list, i am going to price everything up now and put a list on of what i have found so then you guys can tell me where i have gone wrong.

Gary...do you have any pics of your tank? I like corner tanks and if the dimensions are correct it could fit exactly where i want it to go. What sort of price are you after?

 

[ben1987]

i have never used one of thise tanks or heard a review. I just think that at that price they shouldnt be able to afford to give you stuff and make a profit if they are good quality.
Buying off a reefer i think would be best. The reefers i have dealth with have all been very genuine and offered advice. The tanks they usually sell are dirt cheap and well thought out with weirs and sump etc.

Make your shopping list up after you have bought the tank as stuff will change. Like size of powerheads etc. Your aiming for at least 20x tank volume in flow. So you need your tank to work that out.

 

[Benson112]

Also....on drilling the tank....i would definately need more information on where i am supposed to drill, what size etc. Could you point me at any reading material on this subject? Ive searched about but cant find anything. I am definately going to have to go with a sump and the missus has major issues with wiring!

Gary....what doesthis mean? lol "you can add cheato in there with some live sand "refugium"

 

[ben1987]

cheato is a type of algae. Usually kept under a little light in the sump to keep water quality up. refugium is the term forn the sand light algae and all that stuff.

Research durso overflow first. Then you usually drill the bottom corner of the tank. not too close to the edge. The size will be determind on tank size and the amount of flow needed. You can drill the side or back though if thats easier.

 

[Benson112]

Thanks for the reply and PM, i am searching around for a second hand tank now! Will let you guys know when ive made my decision.

 

[Benson112]

Think i have found my new tank!! With thanks to ben1987 for his help:

[URL="http/www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?t=271455"]http/www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?t=271455[/URL]

Its not that far away from me really so with a bit of luck i could have this in my house by next weekend (after payday!)

Apparently has a built in sump, and comes with halides, pumps, skimmer and a deltec auto top up. So my shopping list is shortened a little there!

So....what next?? Salt & RO water / RO unit if i can get one?

 

[xxBarneyxx]

lol I was going to suggest you have a look on there, can get some amazing bargins. The Perc 120 (and all the perc range for that matter) are really nice tanks and you have got a really good deal there.

Check how long it has been since the bulb was changed in the MH as you might need to replace this. I cant remember what pumps the perc 120 comes with as standard but you may need to get another powerhead or two.

Check on there for LR as well but if you want to cut down a bit of the cost you can mix live rock with base rock which will be a lot cheaper (I would recommend getting as much LR as you can though and then just filling in whats left with base rock). The base rock will in time become "live rock".


Dont forget to take lots of photos and let us know how it progresses

 

[Benson112]

thanks Barney, i was thinking that about the LR. I read a little into live rock and base rock yesterday.

Beings i have alot of time on my hands (brace yourself for a stupuid question) is it possible to buy all base rock and cure it yourself?

Ive PM'd the guy re: that tank so awaiting a reply but i have gotten the thumbs up from the missus. So with a bit of luck, i could be picking this up next tuesday. Just means i have to get my decorating head on and get the back room painted and paper the wall that this tank is going to butt up against.

Lots of pics will be posted, i promise. Im very camera happy!

Also....im looking about for an RO unit, and found this one on ultimate reef: http/www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/cat...day-p-1196.html

Would this be sufficient? Or are there better alternatives out there?

 

[xxBarneyxx]

For "rock" there are basic 3 types that you are looking at.

Base rock - completely dead and wont provide filtration from the start. You will get bacteria growing on it eventually. Ideally you need to have it mixed with liverock to "seed" it.

Uncured Liverock - Basically when LR is bought out the ocean to the fish shop/supplier it is "uncured" and you get a lot of die off on it. This means you get a lot of ammonia, etc coming off it until everything that is going to die on it has died and it levels out. Once it is no longer producing ammonia and nitrite it is "cured". You can buy uncured liverock and "cure" it yorself. It tends to have a lot more life in it but cant be used in tanks that already have livestock in there (due to the ammonia spike). You can cure it out of the tank (in a bucket for example).

Cured Liverock - As above this is basically live rock that has already got bacterial colonies living in it. More likely then not you will get a number of other hitch hikers along with it as well (things like crabs, 'pods, worms, etc). Ideally if your mixing liverock with base rock I would suggest having at least 50% LR. More is better as it means that you have a better biological filtration from the start rather than waiting for the base rock to mature. Plus you get more critters with LR and rock watching is always fun (nothing like having a tank set up for a year and still seeing new things popping out the rockwork )

Personally I would pass on that RO unit. It doesnt have a flush valve or a pressure meter. The pressure meter is not really needed but handy to have if you get any problems with it. The flush valve will drastically improve the lifespan of the RO membrane (and save you money in the long run).

Personally I would take a look at the RO man units (they certainly seem to be the best around).

http/www.ro-man.com/shop/product_info.ph...roducts_id/1582 50gpd which is slow (you will more likely get 12-25GPD) though

Personally I have this one:
http/www.ro-man.com/shop/product_info.ph...roducts_id/1574

More expensive but the DI unit really does a great job. The inline TDS meter is great for checking that everything is working as it should be. I have had mine about a year now and so far I havent replaced any of the filter media on it (though I have small tanks so dont use it a lot, if I was making larger amounts of water I may have had to replace the prefilters). It still knocks my 400ish TDS tap water down to 0 TDS

 

[Benson112]

Thanks again Barney. so it looks like my best bet is to get a 50/50 mix of LR and base rock and let it mature itself. As i said, i have loads of time, there is no rush at all for me to get my stock in there. I want to make sure everything is spot on before i put anything in there.

Soooo onto my next quest....find the best place to buy LR from. Still no reply on the tank

 

[Benson112]

Back again!

Quick question...anybody know where on this site the article is about LR? I cant find it!!! Driving me mad.

Im trying to figure out A. If i want to do fish only or not and B. How much LR i would need for the new tank