Starting A 200L Tropical Tank

[Gruntle]

So after yesterday's 3ppm dose of ammonia, now I'm reading:
 
0ppm Ammonia
2ppm Nitrite
120ppm Nitrate
 
So if tomorrow I have less than 1ppm Nitrite, I dose again and wait 24 hours?
 
I was so ready to transfer fish tonight, as was Jr. Ah, well, as I told him, if I move them now they'll get sick.
 
I'm now thinking of 6 rainbows, 6 H&T's, 6 Cherry Barbs and 2 BN's.Then add the 12 Neons in a few months.

 

[Blondielovesfish]

You're getting close to the end of your cycle! Just little bit longer.
 
Your stock list looks good, but personally I'd only have the one BN. Have just one would give you more room in your stock, perhaps you could have a honey or dwarf gourami?

 

[Gruntle]

I'm wondering whether to wait until tomorrow to re-dose the ammonia, if this next dose doesn't work out, then I might not have enough for another dose (should have bought two bottles of ammonia, silly me). I'll check the bottle and see how I go.
 
If I do wait, will that slow down the nitrite-eaters in multiplying?
 
And I think you're right on the BN, I'll just go for one. The existing tank has just the one and he's very happy.

 

[Blondielovesfish]

Waiting one day shouldn't have a big effect on your nitrite bacteria.

 

[Gruntle]

Having checked the ammonia bottle, I still have 2/3 remaining (and I spilled some on the floor) so haven't used much at all.
 
So with nitrites at 0, I've re-dosed to 3ppm and I'll check again tomorrow night.

 

[Blondielovesfish]

Sounds good! Hopefully the ammonia will last you until  the end of the cycle.

 

[Gruntle]

Nitrites still stubbornly sticking to the 2ppm mark. Time to take a big deep breath, methinks. Start again tomorrow night (which means Jr might be able to help over the weekend - he's developing an interest).
 
Now for yet more questions. Both tanks have about the same temperature, both have the same pH (7.0) and apart from the current nitrite issue, once cycled I expect everything else to be the same, since the water source is also the same.
 
Once cycled, I intend to reduce the nitrate to around 20ppm. At the moment it's sitting at 120ppm, so I think if my maths are correct if I do around an 80% water change I should reduce that to the right number (120/5=24). I am slightly ashamed that my existing tank has suffered a modicum of neglect (and had a plant or two "donated" to the new tank) and is sitting at 80ppm nitrate. I intend to perform a fair sized water change immediately to bring that back to near 20.
 
Once the new tank is cycled and had its major water change, is it a case of bagging the fish, placing them in the bag in the new tank, and gradually adding the new tank water into the bag over a couple of hours, then putting them in? Trickle acclimatisation I think it's called. Or is there a more gentle way of doing it?

 

[daizeUK]

Hi Gruntle. I've had a quick read through your journal and I noticed that you have been re-dosing ammonia to 3ppm before your nitrites fell to zero. This is not the correct way to cycle and might result in your nitrite building up to the point where there is too much to process.

You should not add more ammonia to the tank while nitrites are 5ppm+, this will just make the cycle take longer and you risk driving nitrites up to the point where test kits can no longer read the NO2 concentration properly.

If your test kit is struggling to read the nitrite this might explain why it appears to be stuck at 2ppm and not falling. It's possible your nitrite is actually much higher.

I would strongly recommend that you perform a large water change now (say, 70-80%) and then immediately test your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate again. Then add ammonia to 3ppm and watch what happens. This will give you a clearer idea of how close your tank is to cycling.

Good luck!

 

[Gruntle]

Daize, you've now got me concerned.  Here's what I've done so far (and with the text from the cycling article):
 
Add the initial dose of ammonia. This should be an amount that produces a test kit reading of 3.0 ppm
4th December: dosed the tank to 4ppm and did a water change to bring it back to 3ppm.
 
If at any time you test and ammonia is under .75 ppm and nitrite is clearly over 2 ppm, it is time to add more ammonia. Add the same full amount as you did the first time.
9th December: Ammonia was 0ppm (down from 1ppm the day before) and Nitrite was still 5ppm+. Dosed to 3ppm Ammonia
 
After the second ammonia addition, while waiting for nitrite to rise, peak and drop, the bacteria will need a maintenance feeding. When you get two consecutive ammonia readings of 0 ppm, give the bacteria a “snack” by adding 1/3 of the full amount. This “snack” should be needed somewhere between days 21 and 27 of the cycle.
13 December: Ammonia 0 for the second (or third, I forget) consecutive day. As we were going away for the weekend, I gave them a snack of 1ppm.
 
After the maintenance feeding, whenever you test and ammonia is .25 ppm or lower and nitrite is clearly under 1 ppm, it is time to add a full ammonia dose again and test in 24 hours.
So for the last 4 days:
16 Dec: 0 and 0. Dosed 3ppm Ammonia
17 Dec: 0 and 2. Nitrites still not 0 within 24 hours so waited another day
18 Dec: 0 and 0. Dosed 3ppm Ammonia
19 Dec: 0 and 2. Nitrites still not 0 within 24 hours so waiting another day
 
So tonight I'll test again and if the Nitrite is down to zero I'll dose to 3ppm? I haven't re-dosed when nitrites were above zero except for the second dose. Nitrites are falling to zero, just not within the 24 hours.
 
As today is Friday, I'm hoping I get this done by the end of the weekend so the kids can help with catching and moving fish, and I have plenty of time to do water changes in the light of day. But rest assured, I'm not going to move fish until the tank is cycled.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

It should not be possible to create to much nitrite from adding a total of 6 ppm of ammonia to the tank. That, without any nitrite eaters present, would not create  enough to cross the line at 16.4 ppm using an API kit. But clearly there are some nitrite oxidizers present. The worry is if one keeps adding ammonia not knowing the level of nitrite and you add enough to exceed that 16.4 number even in the face of some nitrite bacteria being present.
 
The reason the directions say nitrite must be above before one adds the second 3 ppm dose is to insure nitrite is being created and not beings fully processed. the cucle is ammonia->nitrie-> nitrate. To insure all is OK in this sequence, nitrite must appear and not just in .25 or .5 ppm amounts. if you add 3 ppm of ammonia it converts to about 7.65 ppm of nitrite. But if the 3 ppm of ammonia is gone and there is nitrite, the reading give you an idea of where things stand. I picked being over 2 ppm as a clear sign that there is nitrite present and that the odds are good there are also some amount of nitrite oxidizers there too. If there are 0 one is over the 5 ppm test max but can not be over 7.65 ppm. the odds are in most tanks you wont read the 5 ppm.
 
The snack amount is low enough to help the ammonia bacteria and not overdo nitrites. But the op did not put in the last quote: "Whenever ammonia is again at .25 ppm or less and nitrite is clearly under 1 ppm, add the full amount of ammonia and test in 24 hours."
 
The reason for ammonia at .25 or less is that is likely a false reading and even if not it is so low as not to matter much here. Similarly, the 1 ppm for nitrite is for the same reason. At under 1 ppm on the scale used by API it is also so low as not to be a serious consideration.
 
All that said, this tank looks very close to being cycled. perhaps I need to add a line to the directions stating only one maintenance feeding should be needed.? The graph does show that though. I would be surprised if the next 3 ppm dose did not result n 0/0 in 24 hours. In fact if it is anwhere under .5 ppm i would pretty much consider the cycle done. The nitrite bacs should not take much more time here- they appear mostly established.

 

[daizeUK]

My mistake for speed-reading

It looks like you've done everything absolutely perfectly and you clearly understood the instructions and followed them to the letter.

Your nitrates are rather high so keep an eye on your pH. It won't hurt to do a water change to bring them down if necessary.

Hope you're done soon

 

[Gruntle]

Thanks for all your help so far. It's just maddening to know that the ammonia bacs appear well established (bringing 3ppm down to 0 within 24 hours) but the nitrite ones are working a slow shift, but from what I've read, this is normal. I am being patient, but the little ones at home are less so.
 
I've added a couple more plants in, hopefully to absorb some of the nitrate, but I will do a massive water change before adding the fish to get them way down (as close to 20 as I can get).
 
On the subject of plants, one of the plants I added at the start of the cycle has gone very brown and started to decompose, so I removed it. Another plant of the same species appears to be struggling along, but there's no new growth as yet  Not sure if my LFS sold me a dud or whether the fluctuations in ammonia, nitrite and nitrate were too much for the poor thing. The other plants are healthy so I suspect the former, there's very little in the way of roots on the plants when they sell them. Another shop in the area sells plants with more established roots, but their fish tanks seem dirty, sick fish and a limited range, so I tend not to frequent them.
 
There's also another shop with a massive range of fish, but their tanks are all but bare with masses of fish in clear water. I suppose they take care of their fry and bring them in just to sell, but it's a little sad to see around 150 Neons in a 2 foot tank (probably about 15 gallons if my maths are correct) with no substrate, no plants and a small filter outlet (which I assume is connected to something out the back of the shop). And their plant range is limited to say the very least.

 

[Gruntle]

Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0. Dosed to 3ppm.
 
That's right, woodchuck-chuckers - it's... GROUNDHOG DAY!

 

[Baccus]

Many pet shops sell plants that are not true aquatics, instead they are merely garden plants that can tolerate being submerged for a limited amount of time.
 
To get some true aquatic plants I would suggest checking out this site.

http/www.aquagreen.com.au/catalog.html

 

[Gruntle]

Well, I guess it's progress that after 24 hours, I'm down to 1ppm nitrite instead of two.
 
So another 24 hours and then another dose. Looks like I might be pushing it to get this done before Christmas.