Squirrel's 72 Gallon Planted Tank

[Themuleous]

Really nice SB, really nice love the layout, the v-shape works well with the lily on the left adding a nice splash of colour and the variation in height and leaf shape on the right looks great. Keep up the good work Sooo wish I had a huge tank now!

Sam

 

[Squirrelbuddies]

Thought it was time for an update....I've been away from the forum for awhile. I finally have time again to work on my tanks and check out what's going on here.

I did a major pruning on this tank and there is now much more swimming room for the congos and the rainbows - much to their delight.

I'm having a problem with the rotala indica -- it was growing like crazy but now the stems are turning black and breaking. Also, the saggitaria is starting to die off. The new runners are fine, but the original plants are dying. So, I pulled out a big bunch of that, too.

Any ideas why the rotala is turning black?

CO2 has been stable
pH 6.4
KH 3
nitrate 5-10ppm
phosphate 0.5-1.0ppm


Also -- question regarding stem plants: These grow sooooo fast and when they get to the top of the tank they tend to grow algae as they are so close to the lights plus the water is warmer up there. Does everyone just uproot their stem plants every week, trim them and replant?

 

[Squirrelbuddies]

Well, a lot has happened in the past few months. I'd guess there are about 50% fewer plants now. I had a terrible problem with my java ferns and I had to remove them all. (They were loaded with BGA.) The saggitaria all died off, too - which seems odd as it was doing so well. They all just turned transparent and died. I've had a big problem with the tall plants. As soon as they get within the top 1/3 of the tank they start to collect algae. So basically, the tank now consists of short plants only as I yanked all of the tall plants because I can't stand to see the long, furry algae swaying in the current.

Friday night I discovered one of my neons was missing; one of my sterbai cories is missing most of his tail fin; and my lovely kribensis was covered with ich. The krib is in a hospital tank and I yanked even more plants and thoroughly cleaned the gravel. And oh yeah, got the diatom filter out, too, to clean up the mess.

So, I've decided it really is time for a complete overhaul of this tank. I have issues to resolve, though. I was thinking of trying this:

1. Bump the lighting up to 186 watts.
2. Replace the black gravel with ADA substrate and use the "bright decorative sand" on top. (I'm thinking that the lighter colored sand will reflect the light better. The tank is deep -- around 23 inches.)
3. Replace all of the plants.

I'd really like to have more red plants this time around. Will 186 watts be enough? The WPG rule is somewhat different with larger tanks, right?

Here's a little video clip of the tank as it looks today. It's looking pretty empty

http/www.dropshots.com/day.php?userid=74...;cdate=20070211

 

[three-fingers]

Woah, just found this thread since you bumped it, that's a nice tank!
Shame about having to take out the tall plants though.
For working out lighting levels i read this and used the calculator on the bottom of the page, someone from this forum posted the link a while ago...cant remember who though .
Also, watch out or the ADA aquasoil as it gives off alot of ammonia when you first put it in you need to be sure the filters can take it, great for cycling a new tank but not so much for one that's already set up. One think you could do with the soil to get rid of the ammonia is dump it an an empty tank/bucket with a mature filter running for a while to get rid of the ammonia.
Despite this downside to it, I'm having really great results with ADA aqua soil Malaya in my nano, so it's a good choice for a substrate.

 

[Squirrelbuddies]

Woah, just found this thread since you bumped it, that's a nice tank!
Shame about having to take out the tall plants though.
For working out lighting levels i read this and used the calculator on the bottom of the page, someone from this forum posted the link a while ago...cant remember who though .
Also, watch out or the ADA aquasoil as it gives off alot of ammonia when you first put it in you need to be sure the filters can take it, great for cycling a new tank but not so much for one that's already set up. One think you could do with the soil to get rid of the ammonia is dump it an an empty tank/bucket with a mature filter running for a while to get rid of the ammonia.
Despite this downside to it, I'm having really great results with ADA aqua soil Malaya in my nano, so it's a good choice for a substrate.

Thanks for the link on the lighting -- that's very helpful! Regarding the ADA soil -- that's good to know. What about the pH and hardness? The website indicates it decreases the hardness of the water and lowers the pH? I really don't want or need that as my water hardness tests out at 4 degrees and my pH is 6.2-6.4 (due to CO2). Have you noticed any significant difference?

I plan/hope to have tall plants again -- I think part of the problem may be with circulation. I changed the filter outputs last week so there is more movement at the top now - but not so much as to break the surface of the water. Maybe this will help?

thanks again!

 

[three-fingers]

The website indicates it decreases the hardness of the water and lowers the pH? I really don't want or need that as my water hardness tests out at 4 degrees and my pH is 6.2-6.4 (due to CO2). Have you noticed any significant difference?

Well the pH in my nano is 6.2 and when the water comes out of my tap its ~7. I use yeast based co2 in my tank so that could also have an effect on the pH.
I don't know about my water hardness though, since I don't have a test for that, but I do know that my water is soft out of the tap and my plants aren't having any problems . Cant comment on effects to livestock yet though, since I don't have anything in my tank yet (still waiting for the ammonia to disappear).
Luckily I've never had any problems with BGA, but i know that alot of people use overdosing flourish excel to treat it and it works very well and fast. Though it can also sometimes 'melt' plants like anachris and vallis so you should remove them if they are in the tank right now and you overdose with the excel .
I also use excel in my nano as an additional source of carbon for the plants, and my anachris is ok, but I don't overdose, i actually underdose and only use it at water changes.

 

[Themuleous]

It might be looking a bit empty but the plants you have look nice sorry to hear about your algae troubles, I'm there myself and know the frustration but that said its always fun stripping and re starting a tank, gives you a blank canvas to work with. Just out of interest, why have you decided on ADA sand over the top of the AS? Didn't think AS was meant to be 'topped'?

Sam

 

[Squirrelbuddies]

It might be looking a bit empty but the plants you have look nice sorry to hear about your algae troubles, I'm there myself and know the frustration but that said its always fun stripping and re starting a tank, gives you a blank canvas to work with. Just out of interest, why have you decided on ADA sand over the top of the AS? Didn't think AS was meant to be 'topped'?

Sam

Hi Sam! Well, honestly, I'm not sure what to do. It looks like there are three products: Aqua Soil, Power Sand and Decorative Sand. I was originally thinking of using the power sand on the bottom and the decorative sand on top (and not even use the aqua soil.) Can I do that? I really would like the substrate to be a lighter color this time around -- which if I use the aqua soil, it will be dark -- plus I don't want to change the hardness or pH of the water. I thought perhaps having a brighter substrate would help to reflect the light better at the bottom of the tank. PLUS -- I have an aquascape in mind that would require the use of light-colored sand!

 

[Themuleous]

Hummm tricky see the dilemmas. TBH I'm not very good with AS stuff as Ive not used it yet. But you could just get a base layer substrate like the tropica one or tetracomplete plant substrate? Then you can put your choice of white sand or whatever over the top

Sam

PS - nice to se you back, been a while

 

[Squirrelbuddies]

Good point, Sam. I would like to try the power sand, though... and the "decorative" sand comes in different size granules, I think. What I'm looking for is (1) a nutrient-rich substrate and (2) a rather course sand or very fine gravel to go on top. It is difficult to find fine gravel (or course sand) around here.

Check out this cool piece of bogwood I picked up today in my travels! I got this from a pet store in New Hampshire. They have an awesome assortment of wood.

http/dropshots.com/day.php?userid=74114&...mp;ctime=184625

And yes, that's my nano in the background! One of these days I'll get it running again. I'm too dialed in to the 72G at the moment. I want to have a "plateau" area in the tank - just off of center - to add some depth.

I am also working on my plant list. I'd like to go for high-light plants this time. One in particular I'm thinking of is Rotalla Wallichii. Anyone have any comments or suggestions regarding this plant?

Based on the lighting link earlier, I think anything between 153-203 watts of compact fluorescent lighting will be high to very high lighting for my size tank.

I'm so excited about the re-scape!!

 

[lljdma06]

Rotala wallichii is a lovely reddish stemplant that has a similar look to myriophylum. It needs at least 2 WPG, constant CO2 injection, and ample phosphorus and iron to do well. Though it does need Nitrates, literature recommends that the nitrate levels be greater than zero but less than 10-15 for the plant to be at it's best. It is best planted in groups of three or five and the lit said to use tweezers. It can be either encouraged to branch or not.

Under the right conditions, it can get pretty bright, almost a freaky pink color. Nice plant choice if you've got the right conditions. I've never grown it, but if I had a high light system, it would certainly be on my list.

llj

 

[Squirrelbuddies]

Thanks, llj for the feedback on the rotala wallichii. I can't wait to see what it looks like up close. And yes, FKNM, I like "minimalistic" - sounds much better than empty!

I finally decided on the substrate. I found an attractive, natural gravel at the LFS today. It's beige-ish and small -- about 2mm. I bought the last 50 pound bag for $20.00 which seemed reasonable to me (only 40 cents/per pound). They are ordering another bag for me which will come in on Thursday.

I going to use laterite again for this setup -- it seems to be the "tried and true" method which works for me. Plus, the ADA stuff (with shipping charges) was just too expensive to outfit a 72 gallon tank. I'll save approximately $90.00 by going with laterite and small gravel purchased locally. The savings will allow me to upgrade my lighting!

This is my plant list:

Hemianthus micranthemoides
Rotala Wallichii
Bacopa caroliniana
Hydrocotyle verticillata
Heteranthera zosterfolia
Marsilea quadrifolia
Sagittaria platyphylla
Rotala Indica

The only plants I'm keeping from the current setup are:

Nymphaea stellata
Echinodorus "Red Flame"

My inspiration is from a photo in Amano's second book (page 138). Not that I want it to look like this -- but I really like the look of the different textures of the plants listed. I plan to have a little more red and pink - which is why I included rotala indica and the nymphaea stellata. I think ten different plant types will keep it interesting but not too busy for a tank this size.

I almost forgot to mention -- several weeks ago I brought home a bristlenose plec -- what a sweetie he is! Not only does he have that sweet "bristley" mug, but he has kept all of the bogwood clear of algae.

Any comments on the plant list would be very much welcomed. My water is: GH 4, KH 3 and pH 6.4. Lighting will be between high to very high. Thanks for reading!

 

[lljdma06]

Thanks, llj for the feedback on the rotala wallichii. I can't wait to see what it looks like up close.

No problem! I love that plant, great stuff.

I finally decided on the substrate. I found an attractive, natural gravel at the LFS today. It's beige-ish and small -- about 2mm. I bought the last 50 pound bag for $20.00 which seemed reasonable to me (only 40 cents/per pound). They are ordering another bag for me which will come in on Thursday. I going to use laterite again for this setup -- it seems to be the "tried and true" method which works for me. Plus, the ADA stuff (with shipping charges) was just too expensive to outfit a 72 gallon tank. I'll save approximately $90.00 by going with laterite and small gravel purchased locally. The savings will allow me to upgrade my lighting!

I see you've opted for the "economy" approach to substrates. This is the exact substrate I use for all four of my planted tanks. Was yours made by TopFin by any chance? Great price, at Petsmart, it is super cheap. With the laterite and possibly some rootabs if you plan on any root feeders (the lotus has extensive roots), the substrate will serve you well and last quite a while with good maintenance. It's also pretty gentle on corydora barbels.

This is my plant list:

Hemianthus micranthemoides
Rotala Wallichii
Bacopa caroliniana
Hydrocotyle verticillata
Heteranthera zosterfolia
Marsilea quadrifolia
Sagittaria platyphylla
Rotala Indica

The only plants I'm keeping from the current setup are:

Nymphaea stellata
Echinodorus "Red Flame"

My inspiration is from a photo in Amano's second book (page 138). Not that I want it to look like this -- but I really like the look of the different textures of the plants listed. I plan to have a little more red and pink - which is why I included rotala indica and the nymphaea stellata. I think ten different plant types will keep it interesting but not too busy for a tank this size. Any comments on the plant list would be very much welcomed. My water is: GH 4, KH 3 and pH 6.4. Lighting will be between high to very high.

I like, I like. With your lighting, however, watch for lots of red. Most of your plants; the wallichii, bacopa, indica, and the Nympaea will all blush varying degrees of red. A beautiful contrast will be made if the reds are tempered with the zosterfolia. Your specs seem really good to grow some of the soft water plants, so this is an advantage, coupled with good CO2 levels. Marsilea quadrifolia will be a foreground in your case. It's even a foreground in my tank and mine doesn't have half the lighting yours does. It has two leaf shapes, however, so that is something to watch for. In stores, you'll get the emersed growth. Once submersed, the leaf shapes slowly change to a single-leaf or a heavier textured four-leaf design. It also can become darker, but that may not happen for you with your higher lighting.

On a less happy note, I would be extremely flexible with your layout for the first 3-4 months. I also would not add some of your more expensive plants, nor your small foreground plants during that time. Find a fast-growing weed and plant initially with that plant predominantly and do not focus so much on scaping. The tank might not be gorgeous at first, but you save the heartache of having to bin algae-choked plants, if you have trouble with dosing initially, which happens to all of us. You can't gage things in a new tank as well. Then, when you have the stability, gradually replace the weeds with the plants you want from your list and incorporate them into your scape. Great plants from your list to start with are the R. indica, and the bacopa. Zosterfolia has pretty fragile leaves that can get choked pretty quickly as does the Hemianthus. Forget the wallichii initially, if your water isn't spot on clear and algae free, it can be choked too. Egeria densa is your friend.

Otherwise, your plans sound lovely and I really look forward to the end result of this tank.

llj

 

[Squirrelbuddies]

llj -- thanks for the detailed response. I appreciate the time you took to read and reply. I only have a minute, though. I just came home to unpack my plants! They were delivered at the office today and I wanted to get them into water.

Aquariumplants.com does a nice job -- packed very well and the plants are in great shape AND nothing was missing. More to follow tomorrow....

 

[Squirrelbuddies]

The overhaul went well on Saturday. I began at 7AM and finished around 8PM. These are the steps I took:

1. Rinse 90 pounds of gravel and two 55 oz boxes of laterite. (2 hours)
2. Transfer water, heater, both filters, plants, bogwood and fish from the 72 gallon to a 38 gallon tank. (This took me nearly 2 hours. Black neon tetras take forever to net in a large tank.)
3. Remove remaining water and 75 pounds of gravel and clean the tank. (2 hours.)
4. Add freshly rinsed laterite, gravel, rocks and bogwood. (1.5 hours)
5. Add 5 gallons of fresh water and plant foreground plants. (1 hour)
6. Add another 15 gallons of fresh water and plant medium height plants. (1 hour)
7. Add 5 gallons of water from another aquarium and finished planting. (1 hour)
8. Siphon half of original water from 38 gallon to 72 gallon (thank goodness for submersible pumps!)
9. Move back one filter, heater and position CO2 ladder.
10. Transfer fish (all 36 of them). I felt so bad doing this again. The congos were definitely stressed. (1 hour for steps 8-10)
11. Pump remaining water from the 38 gallon and turn the filter on.
12. Add the second filter and top off with 5 gallons of fresh water. (1 hour for steps 11 and 12.)

Tearing down and rebuilding a 72 gallon planted tank with a big fish load is not for the faint of heart. It took a week of planning and a lot of patience! But I’m happy to report there were no fish or plant casualties.

The next day I decided I did not like the rocks or the new piece of bogwood so I removed them and replanted.

It’s been 4 days now and most of the haze has cleared. I did a water change today to clean up what was left of floating plant debris.

Once it’s dark and after returning from dinner (it’s my bday!), I will post a few pics of the tank

Until then, here's a couple of pics from Saturday:
Gravel

Temporary housing

Pretty plant I found: Mayaca