Sponge Filters and Ammonia for Cycling

[Coolysd]

Hey y'all

So I will be setting up 5 & 10gal tanks soon (within about a month or so) and was wondering if it would be okay to run a couple of small sponge filters in my 75gal tank to be transferred to help with cycling. I was also thinking about the same with some decor as well. Thoughts?

I plan on doing fishless cycling and so I purchased some ammonia (see pic). Is this the right kind? I really don't have a clue.

All if this is new to me, any and all recommendations and directions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Edit: These are the filters I have (which I have never used before), is the there anything in particular I need to do to them prior to installing them?

 

[Essjay]

Running filters in an established tank can seed the media but will not totally cycle them for a whole tankful of fish. The amount of bacteria in a cycled tank remains constant. Some will die and be replaced by others, but the total number stays the same provided the numbers of fish etc also remain constant. Putting extra media in a tank does not mean more bacteria will grow. But after a few weeks, some bacteria will establish in the extra media.
If you then move them into another tank and do a fishless cycle to grow more bacteria, that will probably go faster as you would be starting with some bacteria in the sponges.


As for the ammonia, does it list the ingredients on the bottle? If not, shake the bottle and see if bubbles form. Long lasting foam-like bubbles means it contains detergent; large bubbles which burst quickly mean it's OK to use.

 

[GaryE]

How well it will work depends on whether you are patient, or want instant gratification. I run extra filters in tanks and switch them over when I start new ones. I consider those tanks cycled, and I never buy ammonia. Why would you if the filter is adequate for the tank?
The key with the 5 or 10 gallon tank is to stock very lightly as you go forward. If you want to fill a 10 and dump in 6 small fish at once, while feeding them too much, you will have problems. Move a seeded filter over and you're good.

The big question is what the plans are for the 5s and 10s. That determines a lot.

 

[Coolysd]

Running filters in an established tank can seed the media but will not totally cycle them for a whole tankful of fish. The amount of bacteria in a cycled tank remains constant. Some will die and be replaced by others, but the total number stays the same provided the numbers of fish etc also remain constant. Putting extra media in a tank does not mean more bacteria will grow. But after a few weeks, some bacteria will establish in the extra media.
If you then move them into another tank and do a fishless cycle to grow more bacteria, that will probably go faster as you would be starting with some bacteria in the sponges.


As for the ammonia, does it list the ingredients on the bottle? If not, shake the bottle and see if bubbles form. Long lasting foam-like bubbles means it contains detergent; large bubbles which burst quickly mean it's OK to use.

Thanks for the response! I actually did shake the bottle and it did suds up. Back to the store I go...

 

[TwoTankAmin]

A better idea would be to set up the new tank with the sponge filters in it. Then rinse out the bio-media from the 75 in the new tank. Let the gunk settle into the substrate and get sucked into the new sponges. Add 2 ppm of ammonia to the tank either before or soon after you do this. Test in 24 hours. You should see less than 2 ppm but may still see the full 2 ppm. Don't worry test again in another 24 hours.

Basically you can follow the guidelines in th fishless cycling article. The thing is the numbers you test should be less than thos indicated in the article. The issue is there is no way to know how much good bacteria you added from the 75. This means it is not not possible to predict your actual numbers.

Once you see ammonia dropping, test for nitrite. Those numbers will also be lower than expected when there is no bacteria added. The goal is simple- the tank should be able to make 2 ppm of ammonia vanish in 24 hpurs or less and there should zero nitrite as well in the same time frame.

When you seed bacteria by rinsing cycled media in or moving some cycled media to the new tank you are adding both the ones for ammonia and then a sufficient number of the nitrite ones to process whatever amount the ammonia produce. Yhey are in balance. However, because you likely need them to reproduce some to process the full 2 ppm of ammonia and also not to leave any nitrite, you may see a small amount of nitrite even after you see 0 ammonia. This is because the nitrite ones reproduce a bit more slowly than the ammonia ones. Redosing ammonia to 2 ppm a second or 3rd time will soon leave 0 nitrite as well as 0 ammonia within 24 hours.

 

[Coolysd]

A better idea would be to set up the new tank with the sponge filters in it. Then rinse out the bio-media from the 75 in the new tank. Let the gunk settle into the substrate and get sucked into the new sponges. Add 2 ppm of ammonia to the tank either before or soon after you do this. Test in 24 hours. You should see less than 2 ppm but may still see the full 2 ppm. Don't worry test again in another 24 hours.

Basically you can follow the guidelines in th fishless cycling article. The thing is the numbers you test should be less than thos indicated in the article. The issue is there is no way to know how much good bacteria you added from the 75. This means it is not not possible to predict your actual numbers.

Once you see ammonia dropping, test for nitrite. Those numbers will also be lower than expected when there is no bacteria added. The goal is simple- the tank should be able to make 2 ppm of ammonia vanish in 24 hpurs or less and there should zero nitrite as well in the same time frame.

When you seed bacteria by rinsing cycled media in or moving some cycled media to the new tank you are adding both the ones for ammonia and then a sufficient number of the nitrite ones to process whatever amount the ammonia produce. Yhey are in balance. However, because you likely need them to reproduce some to process the full 2 ppm of ammonia and also not to leave any nitrite, you may see a small amount of nitrite even after you see 0 ammonia. This is because the nitrite ones reproduce a bit more slowly than the ammonia ones. Redosing ammonia to 2 ppm a second or 3rd time will soon leave 0 nitrite as well as 0 ammonia within 24 hours.

Thank you for the advice!! Will definitely do that. I'm having a little trouble finding the right kind of ammonia. I haven't set up any new tanks yet but want to very soon.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I started out by using plain old household ammonia with surfactants. I cycled a bunch of tanks this way. Never lost any fish. But I did two things. I ran carbon during the fishless cycle and when it was done, I changed close to 90% of the water. However, once I learned abour ammonium chloride I switched to that.

The household ammonia is hard to control in terms of how much to add to get a specific concentration while ammonium chloride can be dosed with precision. There are at least two commercial options for ammonia adding. One is Dr. Tm's ammonium chloride and the other is Fritz Aquatics Fishless Fuel Ammonia Solution. Either should provide what you need.

 

[Coolysd]

I ordered the Mr Tim's, it should be here tomorrow.