Thank you!! You shouldn't be depressed! Nano tanks are great, and way cheaper! Once I get my quarantine tank up and running, I think I'm going to enjoy things for awhile, then see if I can setup a nano planted with a couple endler's and some shrimp!!
So It Begins
- Thread starter jag51186
- Start date
I agree, things seem to be on the right track. To your questions:
Cloudiness can take days, sometimes even weeks, but let it do it alone. Other than partial water changes, leave things and it will clear. Some of this is sediment in the sand, but some is a bacterial bloom. On no account resort to the chemicals to clear the water, as they can be extremely dangerous for fish.
On the plant fertilizers, yes, add them now. A comprehensive liquid, at the recommended dose. If you do any water changes, re-add the fertilizer accordingly. There is some ammonium/nitrate in the good fertilizers (Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive Supplement is the one I happen to use) but you need the micros in these products to get the plants going.
Now, I never "cycle" new tanks. Here, I would add a few fish after the tank was running with no issues for a day or two, if you see the water starting to clear a bit (whether after a partial water change or on its own). Some fish are better than others, and not because we are using them to "cycle" as such, we are not--but some fish settle into a new tank that is not biologically established (which takes a couple of months) better than others. If you give me your intended fish stocking, complete, I can suggest which I would add first, second, etc.
Byron.
Cloudiness can take days, sometimes even weeks, but let it do it alone. Other than partial water changes, leave things and it will clear. Some of this is sediment in the sand, but some is a bacterial bloom. On no account resort to the chemicals to clear the water, as they can be extremely dangerous for fish.
On the plant fertilizers, yes, add them now. A comprehensive liquid, at the recommended dose. If you do any water changes, re-add the fertilizer accordingly. There is some ammonium/nitrate in the good fertilizers (Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive Supplement is the one I happen to use) but you need the micros in these products to get the plants going.
Now, I never "cycle" new tanks. Here, I would add a few fish after the tank was running with no issues for a day or two, if you see the water starting to clear a bit (whether after a partial water change or on its own). Some fish are better than others, and not because we are using them to "cycle" as such, we are not--but some fish settle into a new tank that is not biologically established (which takes a couple of months) better than others. If you give me your intended fish stocking, complete, I can suggest which I would add first, second, etc.
Byron.
I'm not sure that I even know the complete lost yet lol. But I would like to have...
10 corys paleatus (maybe six, and six of a different variety)
6 denison barbs
6 rainbows (likely booseman)
Thinking of adding in a few random livebearers for some difference, and maybe a couple angels when the plants have filled in. I was thinking of putting in a few platys first??
10 corys paleatus (maybe six, and six of a different variety)
6 denison barbs
6 rainbows (likely booseman)
Thinking of adding in a few random livebearers for some difference, and maybe a couple angels when the plants have filled in. I was thinking of putting in a few platys first??
the problems I can see with that is that barbs can be nippy and I'd never put barbs in with angels. I've said this just this week elsewhere and someone else saud they'd be okay together but I'm still worried.
The other thing would be that platies like the water cool (around 22-24 degrees) and angels like the water warmer - around 26-28 degrees so the two together may not work. Also platies are better in slightly hard water and angels (and cories too really) need softer water. You'd need to consider that too.
I can't speak for rainbows as I've never kept them
The other thing would be that platies like the water cool (around 22-24 degrees) and angels like the water warmer - around 26-28 degrees so the two together may not work. Also platies are better in slightly hard water and angels (and cories too really) need softer water. You'd need to consider that too.
I can't speak for rainbows as I've never kept them
I concur with Akasha (shouldn't be surprising...
) and will go a bit further as I see other issues.
First on the Denison Barbs (Sahyadria denisonii, though may still be encountered in Puntius), if you want a group of this barb, consider this as your main fish and you need eight. They are active swimmers, requiring a good oxygen level so a moderate flow from the filter is best, and you could have a sort of stream habitat aquascape with fine gravel, chunks of wood, some rounded river rock. Floating plants, and some substrate-rooted plants. Temperature must be in the low 70's, no higher than 59C/77F but better not this extreme. They are semi-substrate fish, being benthic feeders, so spend most of their time in the lower half or third of the aquarium. Should attain five, maybe six inches, if you get the correct species; another very similar gets much larger and is sometimes not very peaceful.
You certainly do not want the Denisons with angels, for the activity issue and the temperature and the water current.
To the Bosemani rainbows, a group of 6-7 would be fine, if you have moderately hard water. This species is no good in soft and/or acidic water. Also not a good combo with angelfish, for reasons of activity mainly.
As you are seeing, angelfish have specific needs, and it is not always easy finding suitable tankmates. You also do not want two...either one alone, or a group of five-six in your 80g. [Unless you have a bonded mated pair, but that will have other issues.] Angelfish are shoaling fish that establish an hierarchy within the group, and they will continually assert their independence amongst themselves which is fine provided the group is five or more; fewer and it is almost a certainty that one or two will be picked on and this can very quickly cause serious stress and imminent death. There is another current thread with angelfish troubles from a dominant male. It is very common, as it is the fish's inherent nature.
The rainbows and some colourful livebearers (platy, perhaps swordtail) but stay with males only or the tank will quickly become over-run with fry. They will not all get eaten if you have several females giving birth every month.
I won't get into first fish now, as I think more selection has to be made to narrow things down.
Byron.
First on the Denison Barbs (Sahyadria denisonii, though may still be encountered in Puntius), if you want a group of this barb, consider this as your main fish and you need eight. They are active swimmers, requiring a good oxygen level so a moderate flow from the filter is best, and you could have a sort of stream habitat aquascape with fine gravel, chunks of wood, some rounded river rock. Floating plants, and some substrate-rooted plants. Temperature must be in the low 70's, no higher than 59C/77F but better not this extreme. They are semi-substrate fish, being benthic feeders, so spend most of their time in the lower half or third of the aquarium. Should attain five, maybe six inches, if you get the correct species; another very similar gets much larger and is sometimes not very peaceful.
You certainly do not want the Denisons with angels, for the activity issue and the temperature and the water current.
To the Bosemani rainbows, a group of 6-7 would be fine, if you have moderately hard water. This species is no good in soft and/or acidic water. Also not a good combo with angelfish, for reasons of activity mainly.
As you are seeing, angelfish have specific needs, and it is not always easy finding suitable tankmates. You also do not want two...either one alone, or a group of five-six in your 80g. [Unless you have a bonded mated pair, but that will have other issues.] Angelfish are shoaling fish that establish an hierarchy within the group, and they will continually assert their independence amongst themselves which is fine provided the group is five or more; fewer and it is almost a certainty that one or two will be picked on and this can very quickly cause serious stress and imminent death. There is another current thread with angelfish troubles from a dominant male. It is very common, as it is the fish's inherent nature.
The rainbows and some colourful livebearers (platy, perhaps swordtail) but stay with males only or the tank will quickly become over-run with fry. They will not all get eaten if you have several females giving birth every month.
I won't get into first fish now, as I think more selection has to be made to narrow things down.
Byron.
Ok nix the angels, my wife likes them more than I do anyway lol. I really want denison barbs though, and everywhere I read says they are very peaceful. Corys like cooler water as well, so they would be good together?? Ugh, but rainbows are so cool too.
jag51186 said:
"Peaceful" is something of a subjective or relative term. You can find many peaceful fish that will tear the other fish to shreds in the wrong environment. Not suggesting that here, just a generalization...again. But to the Denisons specifically; this from a profile I authored on the species elsewhere:
Generally peaceful, but should not be kept with smaller fish that will likely be seen as food. It's water flow and cooler temperatures limit suitable tankmates to medium-sized barbs and danios, loaches, Garra and Devario species. Must be kept in a group, minimum 8; reports of aggressive behaviour may be due to the fish not being maintained in a sizeable group.
And on its habitat:
Endemic to southwestern India. Inhabits fast-flowing hill streams and rivers, occurring in shoals in rocky pools with thick marginal vegetation. Water temperature averages 15-25C/59-77F.
A very beautiful fish, and one I have been seriously contemplating for my 90g in fact. Corys should be OK, though keeping in mind the size issue, this is where one of the larger more robust species in the genus Scleromystax would be an excellent fit. These species used to be in Corydoras but Britto (2003) resurrected Scleromystax for S. barbatus and there are now a few other species. I suggested this in another thread only yesterday, also with Denisons I think; S. barbatus is indeed a stunning cory-like fish, but larger and well able to hold its own:
Generally peaceful, but unlike the closely-related Corydoras, males are very territorial. Best kept in a pair, or in a small group in larger tanks. Aggression between males can inflict serious injury and even death of the weaker fish. Given its size, this species will fare well in community tanks with more robust upper fish.
For upper fish, I would not include the larger rainbows, but look at some other barbs. I think a group (12 or so) of the Black Ruby Barb would be a nice combination. This is another exemplary barb, in its beauty and its "peacefulness." I have this species in my 90g now, hence my thinking it would complement Denisons.
Byron.
More pictures cuz I can't help myself...
New growth??
All the plants are standing up straight now, and some look like they have new growth going.
As for stocking Byron, I just can't decide. I think a barb tank would be nice, but I just can't decide lol. What are good rainbow tankmates?? I'm basically trying to decide between denisons and rainbows as my main fish, and well pick tankmates from there. Going to test water tonite, to see what we are at after a few days set up...might make my decision easier.
Ps thanks for being patient with my indecisive ways lol.
Oh and I must have corys! Regardless lol
New growth??
All the plants are standing up straight now, and some look like they have new growth going.
As for stocking Byron, I just can't decide. I think a barb tank would be nice, but I just can't decide lol. What are good rainbow tankmates?? I'm basically trying to decide between denisons and rainbows as my main fish, and well pick tankmates from there. Going to test water tonite, to see what we are at after a few days set up...might make my decision easier.
Ps thanks for being patient with my indecisive ways lol.
Oh and I must have corys! Regardless lol
BiggTexx
Fish Crazy
Looking great!
On the Bosemani Rainbowfish:
Origin and Habitat: SE Asia: Indonesia. Inhabits shallow areas with dense vegetation in the Ajamaru Lakes. The pH is between 8 and 9. The fish have also been seen in surrounding tributaries having a lower pH.
Compatibility/Temperament: Peaceful, but due to its level of activity should not be kept with slow, sedate or small fish. Provided they suit the water parameters, similarly-sized peaceful characins, barbs, danios, other rainbowfish, livebearers and catfish are good tankmates. Must be kept in a group of at least 6 to avoid being skittish, but males will be more colourful in larger groups.
Origin and Habitat: SE Asia: Indonesia. Inhabits shallow areas with dense vegetation in the Ajamaru Lakes. The pH is between 8 and 9. The fish have also been seen in surrounding tributaries having a lower pH.
Compatibility/Temperament: Peaceful, but due to its level of activity should not be kept with slow, sedate or small fish. Provided they suit the water parameters, similarly-sized peaceful characins, barbs, danios, other rainbowfish, livebearers and catfish are good tankmates. Must be kept in a group of at least 6 to avoid being skittish, but males will be more colourful in larger groups.
wow it's clearing now 
Looking great
On the barbs - you might find it useful to know that my Dad had two types of barbs in his tank and every plant he put in, they ate ... they even ate the stalks once they'd decimated the leaves. I know very little about barbs - even less about the type you are planning (I can't even bring to mind what they look like! Perhaps we call them something different in the U.K?) but I thought you might want to know that some barbs will just decimate plants
Looking great On the barbs - you might find it useful to know that my Dad had two types of barbs in his tank and every plant he put in, they ate ... they even ate the stalks once they'd decimated the leaves. I know very little about barbs - even less about the type you are planning (I can't even bring to mind what they look like! Perhaps we call them something different in the U.K?) but I thought you might want to know that some barbs will just decimate plants
My wife is lobbying hard for rainbows and I like that I can keep a variety of fish with them. So I think I'll go that route, I can't promise I won't try out some Denisons in the future lol. They are just so cool. I'm thinking two schools of six rainbows, my corys, some assorted livebearers whichever fit my water parameters best.
Water parameters as of today
GH 35ppm
pH 7.6
Ammonia 0.25ppm
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 0
Going to use more well water next time to up the hardness some more, going to let it sit as is for the week, I think, and water change next weekend and see what happens.
GH 35ppm
pH 7.6
Ammonia 0.25ppm
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 0
Going to use more well water next time to up the hardness some more, going to let it sit as is for the week, I think, and water change next weekend and see what happens.
Stocking decision thus far...assuming it doesn't get shot down ;-)
6 booseman rainbows
6 lake kutubu rainbows
10 cory paleatus
Assorted male swordtails
Cherry shrimp maybe
4ish oto cats (once it's more established)
6 booseman rainbows
6 lake kutubu rainbows
10 cory paleatus
Assorted male swordtails
Cherry shrimp maybe
4ish oto cats (once it's more established)
There are some water issues here, by which I mean things we need to clarify. In going back through this thread, no mention was made of GH and pH of your tap water, nor well water, and a house water softener was mentioned.
First, you need to ascertain how the "softener" softens. Some do this by using sodium salts, and the end result is bad for fish. It will also help to know the GH and pH of the well water before it goes through the softener. Will it be possible to use only well water, if we decide this is best?
The GH indicated in post #58 is 35ppm [= 2 dGH] which is too soft for voth species of rainbowfish mentioned, and livebearers. You will also have trouble with plants. The GH (hardness) of the water is the prime source of the "hard" minerals like calcium, magnesium, potassium, etc, and this will have to be raised for some of those plants; harder water fish like the livebearers and these two rainbows need a supply of minerals which they remove from the water. I have very soft water, less than 1 dGH, so I know what is involved here. We can discuss this more when we have the answers to the fore-going questions.
Byron.
First, you need to ascertain how the "softener" softens. Some do this by using sodium salts, and the end result is bad for fish. It will also help to know the GH and pH of the well water before it goes through the softener. Will it be possible to use only well water, if we decide this is best?
The GH indicated in post #58 is 35ppm [= 2 dGH] which is too soft for voth species of rainbowfish mentioned, and livebearers. You will also have trouble with plants. The GH (hardness) of the water is the prime source of the "hard" minerals like calcium, magnesium, potassium, etc, and this will have to be raised for some of those plants; harder water fish like the livebearers and these two rainbows need a supply of minerals which they remove from the water. I have very soft water, less than 1 dGH, so I know what is involved here. We can discuss this more when we have the answers to the fore-going questions.
Byron.
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