So It Begins

[jag51186]

Oooo thanks for that info Akasha!! Sadly, my males tend to color up around feeding time everyday. So, I haven't seen any breeding behavior out of them. But, they sure are beautiful!

 

[Akasha72]

I'm not a fan of barbs but yes, I agree, when the male black ruby colours himself up he is stunning

 

[Byron]

This is a very easy fish to spawn, and very prolific.  I have a group of 14 Pethia nigrofasciata [the scientific nomenclature changed fairly recently, you may still see this fish in the genus Puntius] that spawn very regularly.  Most of the eggs get eaten as soon as they are released of course, but a few have survivied among the Java moss, and I have twice recovered a few very small fry from the canister filter when I am cleaning it.  I don't know if the eggs get pulled in and then hatch, or if the newly-hatched fry get pulled in.  The last time this occurred, I had six fry, three were very tiny, and three were double the size of the tiny ones, so obviously the fry can survive in this dark place for a few days or weeks, finding infusoria and such to eat.
 
Byron.

 

[Akasha72]

out of interest Byron, I was wondering whether I have palmeri fry being sucked into my external as the parents often spawn near the filter inlet and the fry I rescued recently was very near it too. Normally I would just tip the dirty water from the canister down the sink and so any small fry that may be in there would just go down the plug hole unseen. When you empty your canister how do you spot the fry? The water in my canister is dark brown so spotting any is nigh on impossible. Do you empty it through a net or something?

 

[Byron]

out of interest Byron, I was wondering whether I have palmeri fry being sucked into my external as the parents often spawn near the filter inlet and the fry I rescued recently was very near it too. Normally I would just tip the dirty water from the canister down the sink and so any small fry that may be in there would just go down the plug hole unseen. When you empty your canister how do you spot the fry? The water in my canister is dark brown so spotting any is nigh on impossible. Do you empty it through a net or something?

 
Now that I know this can happen (so far, I have found fry in a canister five times, Black Ruby Barb twice, diamond tetra twice, Corydoras duplicareus once), I pull out the baskets and pads as I come to them, leaving the canister empty except for the water in it.  If you let it sit for a few minutes (while cleaning the baskets and pads for example), then use a flashlight to look down into the water in the canister, most of the gunk will have settled to the bottom and it is usually easy to see movement from fry.  I then very slowly pour off some water, or sometimes I just pour all of the canister water into a light-coloured pail.  Let that sit for a few minutes to settle the gunk.  Then it is usually easy to see the fry (shallower water) and net them out.
 
Forgot to mention...my Eheim and Rena canisters pull the tank water in at the bottom, then it flows upward through the pads and media.  So the fry would be at the bottom since they cannot get past all the pads, etc.  Don't know if other canister might be different.

 

[Akasha72]

mine flows down the sides through sponge pads to the bottom then up the middle through ceramics, and gradually finer sponges. I've never seen anything in it beyond trumpet snails but I will follow your advice with the torch and check to see if anything is getting in there. I would think any fry would get stuck in the first sponges and not be able to make it to the canister bottom but I've seen the size of newly hatched palmeri fry and they possibly could flow through the holes ... they are pretty tiny
 
Thanks (sorry to briefly hyjack the thread jag)

 

[jag51186]

No worries, this is all great information. I'm going to check my filter much more carefully during cleaning now, and I need to find somewhere to put some java moss in this tank if I want babies. My planting right now is much too sparse for anything to not end up eaten. Thoughts on where I should put it?

 

[Akasha72]

I don't have any java moss in my tank but I've had 2 panda cories survive and a tetra in the last year. They seem to hide in the java fern though as that's quite bushy. It's tied to my wood and over hangs the wood on both sides. It seems to provide cover though so maybe consider java fern rather than java moss

 

[Byron]

No worries, this is all great information. I'm going to check my filter much more carefully during cleaning now, and I need to find somewhere to put some java moss in this tank if I want babies. My planting right now is much too sparse for anything to not end up eaten. Thoughts on where I should put it?

 
Java Moss attaches to wood and rock.  The barbs, like most cyprinids and characins, will generally spawn in a plant thicket.  Mine use the floating plants mainly, as I have Ceratopteris cornuta (Water Sprite) which has quite extensive dangling root masses, and these fish seem to really prefer that.  I have also seen the barbs spawn down in or above the moss, where the eggs have perhaps a better chance of surviving predation.  Keep in mind that not only the barbs themselves, but almost any other fish in the tank, will be eager to devour eggs.  And the fish know when spawning is imminent, simply because fish ready to spawn send out chemical signals, pheromones, and other fish read them.  I see this all the time, in my tanks of characins and cyprinids, but an egg does seem to escape predation once in a while.
 
Akasha posted while I was typing, and she mentions corys; they of course lay the eggs individually on a surface, so if one should happen to be stuck on the underside of a plant leaf that is well off the beaten track, so to speak, it might easily hatch.  The fry actually have a better chance of surviving predation than eggs, simply because the eggs are stationary whereas the fry can at least swim under/behind/among plants, wood, etc.
 
Most but not all fish eggs are sticky, so when they are released in a cloud as cyprinids and many characins do, they stick to the plant leaves/roots as soon as they come in contact.  I have often witnessed a cloud of eggs released by the barbs, or the tetras, and the other fish are all waiting around and quick to gobble them up.  Fish like corys that place each egg somewhere do have a better chance, which is partly why they also have far fewer eggs per spawning.
 
Byron.

 

[Akasha72]

when my panda's were younger and therefore smaller they used to place the eggs on the underside of the java fern leaves, which is how I think two managed to survive. Now they are bigger they've changed tactic and now lay them on the glass. This is better for me as I can tell when they've spawned and collect the eggs to hatch elsewhere. I have 6 panda's, I don't need anymore hatching and surviving in the tank

 

[jag51186]

This is all great information to have, I wouldn't mind attempting to raise some fry at some point, mainly just for the fun of it. And, I think all this talk of spawning has triggered something in the rubies, because when I got home tonight, all of the males were colored up and chasing the females all over the place! What a sight, they sure are feisty! 

 

[Byron]

This is all great information to have, I wouldn't mind attempting to raise some fry at some point, mainly just for the fun of it. And, I think all this talk of spawning has triggered something in the rubies, because when I got home tonight, all of the males were colored up and chasing the females all over the place! What a sight, they sure are feisty! 

 
Have you also observed the interaction of two males?  They spin around very fast indeed.  I see this outside of actual spawning interaction when one or sometimes two males will drive a female into the plants.  A very active species to be sure.

 

[jag51186]

Watching it right now!! Spawning is happening as I type, she is laying eggs all over, hopefully a few make it...she tends to prefer laying them up in the frogbit roots like you said, but every now and then she will drop some into the center of the sword plants. Exciting stuff! 
 
I was going to do a water change tonite, but maybe I will hold off to give them some time.

 

[Byron]

Watching it right now!! Spawning is happening as I type, she is laying eggs all over, hopefully a few make it...she tends to prefer laying them up in the frogbit roots like you said, but every now and then she will drop some into the center of the sword plants. Exciting stuff! 
 
I was going to do a water change tonite, but maybe I will hold off to give them some time.

 
Don't neglect the regular water change, if it is time.  This will actually motivate the fish to spawn, especially if you lower the temp of the fresh water just a degree or two below the tank temp.  And doing a water change on a day of low pressure is almost guaranteed to initiate spawning among many fish.  Fish can detect barometric pressure, so this signals rainstorms to the fish, which is the start of the spawning season in the tropics.  They expect food to be more plentiful as the rivers flood the surrounding forest, and the flooded forest provides additional cover for the eggs and fry.

 

[jag51186]

So, just a quick stocking question. Currently in my 75 gallon, I have

6 Denison Barbs
11 Black Ruby Barbs
5 Rosy Barbs
9 Cory Paleatus
4 Otocinclus
 
I was just wondering if you guys thought the tank could handle anything else, I got 5 cories the last time I went to the LFS, and they are currently living in a 20 gallon I have with a couple platies. But, I would like to put them in the big tank if it is possible, and I would also like to bump the oto's up to a more comfortable 6-7. I figure the oto's are fine since they stay fairly small, but the cories would definitely hit the bioload a little more. The cories aren't paleatus either...two of them are Sterbai I think, and 1 bronze, and 2 others that I'm not sure on...they were all by themselves and I felt bad for them.
 
I don't know how relevant it is, but I plan on adding more plants to my main tank as well. I want to line the back wall with Italian Vallisneria, and I'm going to add some Ozelot Swords, and maybe more anubias/java moss on the wood.
 
If I shouldn't add them, that is fine...they can live in the 20 gallon no problem.