small tanks

[Toney]

If an organism is eating, growing, putting on weight then it's thriving

Ever fish a over stocked pond? You catch big headed fish with small bodies

 

[stanleo]

I don’t think the op would advocate putting an arowana in a 40 gallon tank, they are saying there are some cases when it’s a matter of having a tank that is not quite big enough for the fish they got because some one at a store told them it was ok and sometimes the point comes across as snarky.

That said, I do think they have adaptability and evolutionary processes mixed up. Just because guppies have adapted to captivity doesn’t mean their DNA has fundementaly changed.

 

[Byron]

And you didn't answer my question about how big your first tank was.
How big was the first fish tank you bought and how much money did you have to spend on it?

This is completely irrelevant to the issue, and you know it. When I started keeping fish, there was no internet with forums, there were only a few books...and not very good ones at that. Store advice was taken as "correct." And along the way, I lost all my fish before their time, because I had a 10g tank and put too many fish in it that did not belong there to begin with.

When someone comes on this forum and asks a question, we are not serving them if we make excuses and don't tell the truth. They come here to learn, for guidance, for assistance...in other words, for knowledge. And that is what we give them. But if it is not accurate, we are serving no one but our own ego.

 

[stanleo]

Well said on the last Byron.

I think also text comes across differently than the spoken word and if you’re not reading from the mindset of knowing that this person is trying to help you, it can be taken more harsh than it is intended.

 

[NickAu]

If an organism is eating, growing, putting on weight then it's thriving

Then there is no problem with Puppy farms according to that.

 

[Toney]

Then there is no problem with Puppy farms according to that.

You know what a cattle feed lot looks like? How pork is raised, egg laying chickens or chicken houses.


Puppies.......

It's funny how tree huggers give fish feeling and emotions

 

[NickAu]

I do not hug trees, too many splinters.

 

[Colin_T]

Colin_T said: ↑
And you didn't answer my question about how big your first tank was.
How big was the first fish tank you bought and how much money did you have to spend on it?

This is completely irrelevant to the issue, and you know it. When I started keeping fish, there was no internet with forums, there were only a few books...and not very good ones at that. Store advice was taken as "correct." And along the way, I lost all my fish before their time, because I had a 10g tank and put too many fish in it that did not belong there to begin with.

When someone comes on this forum and asks a question, we are not serving them if we make excuses and don't tell the truth. They come here to learn, for guidance, for assistance...in other words, for knowledge. And that is what we give them. But if it is not accurate, we are serving no one but our own ego.

Thank you Byron, your response is my exact point. You and I did exactly the same thing. We were told by the shop that the fish would be ok in that tank. I was even told to drain the tank and wash it all out every week to keep it clean. You might have been told something similar. And yes my first tank was a 10 gallon 2ft long tank too.

The fact is we were not well informed by the shops, who we trusted to give us the correct information to keep the fish alive and well. And unfortunately this still happens today. Either because stores don't hire knowledgeable staff, or because the staff are unwilling to ask questions or give basic advice.

Back when I started out, if you asked the shop owner "how do I keep discus?" they would often walk away and not talk to you. It was a rich man's hobby and if you didn't know how to keep fish, nobody was going to teach you.

Fortunately today, we do have the internet and there are some very good books available at shops and in libraries. And it is good that there are experienced fish keepers around the world, people like yourself, who are willing to help newbies to the hobby. It is people like you Byron, that are doing the job that the staff in the local petshop should be doing. The difference being that you do it for free whereas the petshop staff get paid. I appreciate you helping on here, and I'm sure many other people appreciate it too.

--------------------------
I started this thread not to discuss the ethics of keeping fish in small tanks, but to try and get people to be a little more tactful when telling new aquarists their tanks are too small for their fish. Yes the newbie has to be told but it should be done in a way that doesn't make them feel completely stupid or like they have committed a crime.

 

[SnailPocalypse]

Really I understand Colin and Byrons points and support them but I do not understand how this conversation has went from fish which in the animal world can be considered to have small bioloads to puppies and cattle which have larger bioloads and more needs.No one is saying dog mills are okay but according to what has been said a dog mill usually is not all that healthy.Education is key.

 

[An76]

Big fish small tank.

Its also about quality of life.

That's bloody extreme
Cruel

 

[An76]

Anyway I have two spare 30 litre tanks, any suggestions on what to do with them

 

[Colin_T]

start another thread in the following link asking for suggestions for a 30 litre tank
http://www.fishforums.net/forums/fresh-planted-nano-tanks.251/

tell them your water quality/ chemistry and what sort of fishes you are thinking about, and then wait for suggestions