Si's Fishless Cycle

[JoshuaA]

They emailed me back today and said they can send me what I want . Someone else said to be careful of Ebay deals like that coz they sometimes send high tech plants and ones that aren't actually for aquariums though! None of yours were though were they?

This, btw, is why I can't pay too much attention to the plant thing and have to stick to simple ones --> http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/332209-another-ei-question/


I read that and see "blah blah blah lah.....blah blah"

Don't worry, they only sell aquatic plants. You will find its the LFS which tends to send you the non aquatic plants

Well done Simon, I'm surprised you went through with it even after my little nitrite scare last night!

 

[PDSimon]

meh

Cheers really enjoying watching the little guys

 

[Twinklecaz]

SIMON I feel hurt and let down that you did this before me! Especially as I have been cycling 2 DAYS longer than you!

LOl I didn't realise you were going to today, or was I just not paying attention? How long you been gettting the double 0's for?

 

[PDSimon]

It was a surprise

I got a double 0 today...after I added fish

I just figured that my stock will be about 40% (probably less, the kuhlis are tiny and have a small bioload anyway). So I just wanted some fish and to get on with some healthy plant growth so went for it

If I get any mini cycles I have a hose and can quickly remove any water and replace it

 

[Twinklecaz]

LOl! Are you doing the adding slowly thing we were talking about? That's what I'm gonna do, I haven't had more than a trace reading for ages at 12 hours so I'm thinking that adding 5 fish will be nothing like the 5.00ppm I've been giving it.

What/when you stocking next?

I'm scared of a mini cycle . I don't really have the time to do emergency water changes and to be honest I hate doing them.

 

[PDSimon]

probably 5 amano shrimp in the next few days and then not anything for a while. i'd like some rummy nose tetra and they need a mature tank unfortunately. Theres some other stuff that need a mature tank too like giant african filter shrimp which I want so..gunna have to wait

might even get more rams..I dunno yet

So its not really that I'm stocking slowly... i'm just waiting for the tank to mature.

I doubt you'll get a minicycle, you've been getting 0's for ages. your filter will be mature and if you stock less than 75% its so so so unlikely imo

 

[Twinklecaz]

I still can't decide what to do about the whole doubleing the stocking thing. I think maybe getting 3 of the Pandas next week (must get Platys and Gouramis first) and 3 the week after is the way to go. Just gotta butter up my taxi driver


Those are lovely Rams btw!

 

[JoshuaA]

I don't understand what is a "Mature" tank though. I know there are other bacterias which are needed i.e the ones which break poop down but I know WD said it only takes a matter of days for them to form.

So assuming your tank is fully cycled would that mean its "Matured"?

I will be adding Lemon or Neon Tetras last in our tank we will decide closer to the date which ones we want. It can be 5 Lemon 5 Neon or like 8 Neons and a Guppy. It would be pretty cool

 

[PDSimon]

I'm not too sure about your stocking caz but I'm sure it'll go along smoothly... and thanks, they look so much nicer when they were relaxed but they're shy and a fair bit stressed at the moment. It'll ease off over the next couple of days hopefully

and josh, there is other bacteria and other plant life that develops microscopically...a mature tank really is 6 months + really

 

[Twinklecaz]

Are you giving them names? I have to confess this is why I want 3 different Platys and 2 different Honeys - so that I can name them. I realise it'll be difficult with the others though.

 

[waterdrop]

I don't understand what is a "Mature" tank though. I know there are other bacterias which are needed i.e the ones which break poop down but I know WD said it only takes a matter of days for them to form.

So assuming your tank is fully cycled would that mean its "Matured"?

I will be adding Lemon or Neon Tetras last in our tank we will decide closer to the date which ones we want. It can be 5 Lemon 5 Neon or like 8 Neons and a Guppy. It would be pretty cool

In my own use of the term "mature tank," at least the way I use it the most, I would not tend to think of the end of fishless cycling as being when I would think of the tank as mature. Depending on the context of the discussion at hand I would more likely think of a tank a couple of months out from the cycle or a 6-month old tank as being a "mature tank."

A nice clear-cut way of using the term with beginners is to say that a tank is still actively maturing all during the first year. I personally feel that many, many tanks reach a kind of "sweet-spot" of maturity at 6 months. It probably varies with different tanks. After the first year I feel a tank is likely to be fully matured and from then on its just subject to change based on things that happen to it but basically a year and anything beyond is a mature tank (or lets say "fully mature tank" since I just called a 6-month one a mature tank ).

The term "mature tank" gets thrown around in all sorts of contexts of course. In the world of non-hobbyists (basically the crowd walking the isles at any LFS) of course it might get used to describe the difference between tanks that are cycled or not cycled. Most of that crowd of course is completely innocent of the concept of the nitrogen cycle, so the more subtle idea of "mature tank" would be even more confusing.

In my own mind the term also gets used I guess as a catch-all for the other natural cycles and water chemistry details that are going on that we hardly ever discuss or even know about. One thing that happens is that the DOC (dissolved organic carbon) levels rise and the level of Mulm will go up. These things will change with water changes and filter cleanings. I'm sure there are various inorganic substances and heavy metals that will start very low in tap water but will gradually rise to some equalibrium level that is kept in check by water changes but stays a little higher residual level than it would be in a very young tank such as one less than a year old.

Obviously another attribute of a "mature tank" is that it has "mature media." It has filter media that would probably obey the 1/3 guideline where 1/3 of the biomedia could be divided out to seed another filter and the remaining 2/3's would keep the current tank going ok with hardly a mini-cycle or perhaps even a detectable blip in ammonia and nitrite readings.

Anyway, hope this helps clarify my own thinking whenever I make the statement, even if other experienced hobbyist might have somewhat differing opinions. I'm sure Neale or OM47 would have some interesting opinions about the term and how its defined in their minds. The bacteriology text I've been reading somewhat recently has done nothing to dissuade me from the feeling that most of the freshwater hetero/saprotrophs that help us with ammonia breakdown can develop extremely rapidly and are really no problem in comparison to our autotrophs so I haven't changed my differing opinion from Neale's there but of course I'm always open to the fact that there could be information I just have never run across. Neale has probably read more extensively in these areas, so he may have run across other tidbits over the years. I feel that heterotrophic bacterial blooms can happen in so few days after a tank is freshly filled with tap water that this gives some strong evidence, besides the readings that they are fast, as to their ease of multiplication. Of course its entirely possible, even reasonable, that there may be quite different intra-species population ratios among multiple heterotrophic bacterial species in new tanks versus mature tanks.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[JoshuaA]

~~waterdrop~~

As information packed that was I'm struggling to understand the idea in some places.

In the easy short term, could you go along with the idea a mature tank is a tank which can have 1/3 of its filter media taken and not take a set back? As a vague definition.

If I were to purchase a new tank and move my "Mature filter" across the filter would technically be mature but would it take the tank 6 months itself to mature? Or are we mainly talking filters only here?

...and oh how we have missed you Waterdrop!

Me and my girlfriend have got ourselves

1 x Platy
1 x Molly
1 x Honey Gourami

After our 5/6 days of double zeroes. Its been so long since I've seen your pretty face on here, perhaps when you complimented our beautiful nation for its plant growing abilities

I haven't bothered writing our fish-less cycle results up onto a table fully but if you would like me to do so, so you can browse through the data gathered then I would be happy to do so.

 

[PDSimon]

done a 20% waterchange, not because there were any toxins, but I fed the fish blood worm and they had a good munch at that with some left over as well as quite a bit of gunk on the bottom so did a sand syphon.

The fish were fairly relaxed with my hand in the tank... surprisingly

 

[kaivalagi]

It's when they go for you that you need to worry!

I got a pinch off my HRP male yesterday, I was getting too adventurous with the syphoning, he didn't like how close the hose was getting to the fry....and went for my hand, not the hose, when I wasn't looking though

 

[PDSimon]

haha, did it hurt? I havn't seen whether they have teeth but you never know!

The two rams are swimming up and down now, following each other sometimes they just stop and stare... havn't really seen any lip locking like at the LFS so maybe its two females or a pair? Will take some pics soon and post them up to see...

I held a blood worm just above the bogwood and dropped it to where he was hiding and he swam up, grabbed it, reversed back into his cave and munched away haha