Sick Looking Neon

[WILDER]

Information written by steelhealr

This is what I choose to do with my fish and my comments are only placed here as opinion. This is a heated topic. I choose based on my knowledge from my training:

Oil of cloves is a topical anethestic and was used in the past to treat toothaches. Lidocaine (like at the dentist's office is a topical anesthetic as well). When we operate on people we really want to achieve 2 things, analgesia and anesthesia, that is, relief of pain and unconsciousness. IMO, when a fish is immersed in oil of cloves, it is essentially 'topically anesthetized', paralyzed, but, I am NOT convinced that the fish is unconscious.....none of us will really know for sure. We don't know if the oil of cloves causes stinging to the mucus membranes, eyes, etc on initial contact nor if the fish is motionless, painless but aware.

Extreme cold is an anesthetic. When applied to skin, you can actually cut the skin and feel no pain. Cold also can cause rapid unconsciousness. In fact, hypothermia is reported to cause a state of euphoria and clouding of consciousness. Fish, at least most of the types that we keep (tropical), are extremely small and rapid immersion in extreme cold water, in my opinion, causes rapid pain relief and rapid unconsciousness. I have never seen any of my fish shows signs of what I consider suffering. They stop moving immediately and appear lifeless. Some have stated that since fish are ectothermic, this doesn't apply....perhaps in cold water fish I would agree.

I choose to euthanize my fish this way, rather than oil of cloves. One must either make an educated decision for themselves, or, choose what is currently accepted by the masses as what is humane.

Added: although I would never use blunt force to euthanize my fish, nor advocate it, one fact is for sure: death is instantaneous

 

[cambojnr]

Information written by steelhealr

This is what I choose to do with my fish and my comments are only placed here as opinion. This is a heated topic. I choose based on my knowledge from my training:

Oil of cloves is a topical anethestic and was used in the past to treat toothaches. Lidocaine (like at the dentist's office is a topical anesthetic as well). When we operate on people we really want to achieve 2 things, analgesia and anesthesia, that is, relief of pain and unconsciousness. IMO, when a fish is immersed in oil of cloves, it is essentially 'topically anesthetized', paralyzed, but, I am NOT convinced that the fish is unconscious.....none of us will really know for sure. We don't know if the oil of cloves causes stinging to the mucus membranes, eyes, etc on initial contact nor if the fish is motionless, painless but aware.

Extreme cold is an anesthetic. When applied to skin, you can actually cut the skin and feel no pain. Cold also can cause rapid unconsciousness. In fact, hypothermia is reported to cause a state of euphoria and clouding of consciousness. Fish, at least most of the types that we keep (tropical), are extremely small and rapid immersion in extreme cold water, in my opinion, causes rapid pain relief and rapid unconsciousness. I have never seen any of my fish shows signs of what I consider suffering. They stop moving immediately and appear lifeless. Some have stated that since fish are ectothermic, this doesn't apply....perhaps in cold water fish I would agree.

I choose to euthanize my fish this way, rather than oil of cloves. One must either make an educated decision for themselves, or, choose what is currently accepted by the masses as what is humane.

Added: although I would never use blunt force to euthanize my fish, nor advocate it, one fact is for sure: death is instantaneous

I will use the cold way now, so just cold water with ice cubes put it in the freezer for a bit then break the surface and sent the poor little thing on it way?

 

[WILDER]

I trust steelhealr, as he's a doctor/surgeon.,

I will use the cold way now, so just cold water with ice cubes put it in the freezer for a bit then break the surface and sent the poor little thing on it way?

You can put the water in the freezer if you don't have ice cubes.
You shouldn't need to add to freezer if you have ice cubes. Just put the ice cubes in the water and wait for 5 minutes before adding the fish.

 

[cambojnr]

I have sadly put the poor little neon to sleep, but before the poor little thing got sick I was planning on getting some more neons to bring the group of them up to 12, so in my tank I would have 12 neons, 4 bronze corys and 1 honey gourami. So how long do you think I should wait before I add the 5 more neons?. thanks

 

[WILDER]

Sorry for you loss.

How are your other fish?

I think I would let the tank settle for a couple of weeks.
If you had an isolation tank you could of got the neons now. There always a risk that new fish could be fetching a disease into the tank.

 

[cambojnr]

the other fish are fine, every time i have to open the lid and put my hand in to crush some snail, as am over run by the they all nip at my arm apart from the corys, but thank I will wait till sometime in november before I add anymore fish. as the shop I get them from I have never had our seen a sick fish that has not been in a isolation tank getting the meds. but I will still wait a while just incase any of my othe neons have contracted anything. thanks again

 

[WILDER]

Bless them. Guppys used to nibble my arms.

To get rid of the snails sterilize a bottle in boiling water., Add some lettuce, and sink the bottle to the bottom of the tank. It's quite a good way to rid the tank of snails.

Good Luck.

 

[cambojnr]

knew this would happen as another one is showing the same symptoms apart from has no bulging eyes just the white circular lumps growing n it, and I have put it in a tank I fug out the garage on its own. here are some better pics of the lumps, but do you think I hshould just put it to sleep like I did the other one?
white dot not in cotton wool thing

on the right side you can see the white dot growing in the cotton wool thing.

 

[WILDER]

I would add anti internal bacteria med by interpet.
As lumps can be bacterial.



I would suggest some water changes on main tank.

 

[cambojnr]

I would add anti internal bacteria med by interpet.
As lumps can be bacterial.



I would suggest some water changes on main tank.

ok thanks

 

[WILDER]

I would try saving him first by adding the anti internal bacteria medication to his tank.
If he goes down hill fast then I would think about ending his mistery.

Good Luck.

 

[cambojnr]

I would try saving him first by adding the anti internal bacteria medication to his tank.
If he goes down hill fast then I would think about ending his mistery.

Good Luck.

yea am gonna try that this time since he is in a tank on its own, as last time I didint have the tank and did not want to does the full tank, but will let you know how it goes.

 

[WILDER]

Most UK bacterial medications might cause a slight raise in ammonia, but they don't kill your good bacteria in your filter. There only one medication I can think of that does. That furanol 2 by JBL.

Hope he gets well soon. Bless Him.

 

[cambojnr]

Most UK bacterial medications might cause a slight raise in ammonia, but they don't kill your good bacteria in your filter. There only one medication I can think of that does. That furanol 2 by JBL.

Hope he gets well soon. Bless Him.

well I have tried the meds and it appears to do nothing for the fish, as they seem to dissapear in one spot over night then grow somewhere else on the fish the next day, the fish seems fine eating normally, swimming normally, and not just sitting in the corner. as when I woke up this morning one of the neons in the main tank had died, and just yesterday I had noticed it starting to get the patch to grow a white spot, and the another one doing the same. so just before I caught all the neons up and put them in the quarintine tank, and I think I will just leave the 6 of them in there. but do you think it will be ok if the tank is just left bare bottom with no substrate, as I plan on getting some wood and plants to put in as all that is in atm is a coconut cave.

 

[bmonki]

tbh i'd medicate the entire main tank (ensuring you have no carbon in your filter) if all the neons are getting sick i'd guess the problem is in your tank not just in certain fish. what are your water stats in main tank? how often do you do water changes?