Should I use Seachem Prime during cycling?

[Banafish]

This question also goes for Seachem Flourish and Flourish Excel. Thanks!

 

[Essjay]

Flourish Excel should not be used, period.

Flourish should only be used if there are plants. If there are no plants during cycling, why use a plant fertiliser?



Prime detoxifies ammonia and will slow the cycle. However, the detoxification wears off after something like 24 to 36 hours.
If this is a fishless cycle, don't add more than the dose rate on the bottle, and don't add any more during the cycle.
But if it's a fish-in cycle and you are doing water changes whenever ammonia or nitrite read above zero, use Prime but be prepared for the cycle to take longer.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Flourish Excel should not be used, period.

That is an opinion. I have used flpurish excel in multiple planted tanks weekly start over 20 years ago. I have fish in those tanks for many years. My oldest largest clown loacj passed last year at he age of between 23 and 25. he lived in planted tanks woth Wexcel added to them the entire time I had it. I got it in 2002 at about 3.5 inches. It was about a foot and very rotund when it passed.

I have colonies of shrimp in planted tanks for a long time. Though they do not breed in my tanks, my amano shrimp live for a lot of years. I started with about 14 assassin snails. I have 100s and have given away and sold 100s more. All of these lived in tanks dosed with Excel.

Finally, this product has been around and used by a fair number of people in the hobby over time. If it was doing horrid things to fish, we could find a lot of anecdotal evidence of this on the net. Go out and look on Google. What you will find are people who say what I just did having used the product for a long time or what the two gents above (Byron and Essjay) say which is that they would never use it and neither should anybody. Bu what they did not say is they have used it and here are the awful results they saw.

Also, Flourish is intended for use in fresh water tanks with live plants. Not all fish need or want to live with live plants. So such fish might not react well if one added Excel to a non-planted tank where such fish should be living.
https://seachem.zendesk.com/hc/en-u...Seachem-Flourish-in-a-tank-where-I-m-keeping-

 

[Playsander]

Fishless or fish in cycling?

 

[Banafish]

Flourish Excel should not be used, period.

Flourish should only be used if there are plants. If there are no plants during cycling, why use a plant fertiliser?



Prime detoxifies ammonia and will slow the cycle. However, the detoxification wears off after something like 24 to 36 hours.
If this is a fishless cycle, don't add more than the dose rate on the bottle, and don't add any more during the cycle.
But if it's a fish-in cycle and you are doing water changes whenever ammonia or nitrite read above zero, use Prime but be prepared for the cycle to take longer.

Are you not supposed to have plants in the tank during fishless cycling? I have already put the plants in, but haven't started to add a source of ammonium.

 

[Byron]

Are you not supposed to have plants in the tank during fishless cycling? I have already put the plants in, but haven't started to add a source of ammonium.

With plants present, I do not recommend adding any ammonia. Some plants can tolerate ammonia to quite high levels, but others cannot. Some will die at just 1 ppm. If you have live plants, and they are growing, you would be better doing a "silent" plant cycle. There is an article on this in the cycling section.

I have used live plants in all my tanks for 30 years. I have never "cycled" a tank adding ammonia, and the fish went in with no issues. I do it in one day, but I know what I'm doing. Caution if new to this is not a problem, and waiting a few days to ensure the plants are growing and not dying is fine. Floating plants are ideal here, they are ammonia sinks. [meaning ammonia from fish]

 

[AlexT]

With plants present, I do not recommend adding any ammonia. Some plants can tolerate ammonia to quite high levels, but others cannot. Some will die at just 1 ppm. If you have live plants, and they are growing, you would be better doing a "silent" plant cycle. There is an article on this in the cycling section.

I have used live plants in all my tanks for 30 years. I have never "cycled" a tank adding ammonia, and the fish went in with no issues. I do it in one day, but I know what I'm doing. Caution if new to this is not a problem, and waiting a few days to ensure the plants are growing and not dying is fine. Floating plants are ideal here, they are ammonia sinks. [meaning ammonia from fish]

Bryon, just a quick one as do not want to hijack, but in this case, what happens to the nitrite then? By the time the plants take up the ammonia, is the nitrite eating bacteria ready to go to work to complete the cycle?

 

[Byron]

Bryon, just a quick one as do not want to hijack, but in this case, what happens to the nitrite then? By the time the plants take up the ammonia, is the nitrite eating bacteria ready to go to work to complete the cycle?

When you have plants, they take up most of the ammonia/ammonium, assuming there are enough and so forth. No nitrite is produced, and thus no nitrate. In the background so to speak, which is why this method is called "silent" cycling, the nitrifying bacteria will colonize, but there will be far fewer because most of the ammonia is used by the plants. You will never (hopefully) see ammonia or nitrite above zero from day 1, provided it is not coming in with the source water. Nitrate will depend upon the stocking but it is not at all uncommon to have zero nitrate in planted tanks using the low-tech or natural method.

 

[Banafish]

Fishless or fish in cycling?

Fishless

 

[Banafish]

With plants present, I do not recommend adding any ammonia. Some plants can tolerate ammonia to quite high levels, but others cannot. Some will die at just 1 ppm. If you have live plants, and they are growing, you would be better doing a "silent" plant cycle. There is an article on this in the cycling section.

I have used live plants in all my tanks for 30 years. I have never "cycled" a tank adding ammonia, and the fish went in with no issues. I do it in one day, but I know what I'm doing. Caution if new to this is not a problem, and waiting a few days to ensure the plants are growing and not dying is fine. Floating plants are ideal here, they are ammonia sinks. [meaning ammonia from fish]

So do I just wait until my plants grow? I have 7 plants in my tank right now, is that enough? Thanks. Also I found a few websites that say you can add ammonia to a planted tank during cycling (https://aquariumgenius.com/how-to-cycle-a-planted-tank/ https://allaboutplantedaquariums.co... are released,Fishless Method of Tank Cycling), should I? I have also included my water parameters in photos below - though I do not have gH or kH test, I think my water is pretty soft because I get my water from a private source of rainwater.

 

[Essjay]

We usually advise to either do a plant cycle, or plant the tank after doing a fishless cycle for the reasons Byron mentioned.

It also depends on what type of plant and how many of them. Just one or two slow growing plants are not enough for a plant cycle as they will not be able to remove the ammonia made by a tankful of fish. Your photo looks as though there is one plant in the tank, though the photo is too small to see what it is.
Can you tell us what the plant is, please, and how many more you plan on having. It may be that if you want just the odd plant you'd be better using ammonia and replacing the plant if the ammonia damages it. But if you do plan more, then get them soon and do a plant cycle. This involves using lots of fast growing plants. The tank is planted then we wait until the plants are actively growing before adding fish a batch at a time. The easy way to judge plant growth is by taking a photo of the newly planted tank so you can see the difference over time.

 

[Byron]

You cannot accept at face value something which is taken out of context. There is an incredible amount of misleading and just plain inaccurate "information" online in this hobby. To use anything you might come across, you have to know the background of the individual, and then the context. There are items raised in the cited article that do not apply here, so it is best to forget them.

 

[sharkweek178]

With plants present, I do not recommend adding any ammonia. Some plants can tolerate ammonia to quite high levels, but others cannot. Some will die at just 1 ppm. If you have live plants, and they are growing, you would be better doing a "silent" plant cycle. There is an article on this in the cycling section.

I have used live plants in all my tanks for 30 years. I have never "cycled" a tank adding ammonia, and the fish went in with no issues. I do it in one day, but I know what I'm doing. Caution if new to this is not a problem, and waiting a few days to ensure the plants are growing and not dying is fine. Floating plants are ideal here, they are ammonia sinks. [meaning ammonia from fish]

And also, fish add ammonia gradually to the tank. Which is how plants absorb it. Adding ammonia all at once can overwhelm the plants.

 

[Banafish]

We usually advise to either do a plant cycle, or plant the tank after doing a fishless cycle for the reasons Byron mentioned.

It also depends on what type of plant and how many of them. Just one or two slow growing plants are not enough for a plant cycle as they will not be able to remove the ammonia made by a tankful of fish. Your photo looks as though there is one plant in the tank, though the photo is too small to see what it is.
Can you tell us what the plant is, please, and how many more you plan on having. It may be that if you want just the odd plant you'd be better using ammonia and replacing the plant if the ammonia damages it. But if you do plan more, then get them soon and do a plant cycle. This involves using lots of fast growing plants. The tank is planted then we wait until the plants are actively growing before adding fish a batch at a time. The easy way to judge plant growth is by taking a photo of the newly planted tank so you can see the difference over time.

Hi, I currently have 7 plants in my tank and I am planning on getting more. I do not know the species of the plants I have (except 1 - the hornwort/coontail), so I was hoping the forum could help me identify them? Thanks. I have photos attached below. Sorry the water is cloudy, it has been 5 days since the setup so I am thinking of getting some Seachem Clarity?

Also, how often should I be testing for chemicals such as pH, ammonia, nitrates, nitrites etc? How frequently should I be doing water changes and how much of the total tank volume (my tank is 52l). Thanks!

 

[Banafish]

Also, my hornwort has roots?? Should I keep it in the substrate or put it in the water?