Shipping Fish (f/k/a Fishing Ship Lol)

[boohag]

Hi all:

I am about to ship 8 baby plecos and 1 mature female. I'm not sure if I should use heat packs. The temp where I live will be 76/67 degrees (high/low) overnight, and the destination will be about 81/54 overnight. They will be shipped 1 day express mail, leaving here about 5pm and should arrive by 3pm at their destination.

My aquarium temp stays at 79 degrees. The heat packs say they will raise the temp by 20 degrees, which would be fine for the night time temp, but bake them in the day. The box I'm using is HEAVILY insulated, inside space is 14 X 13 X 10. The fish will be on the bottom, taking up about 5 1/2 inches of height space. The above space (5 1/2 inches) will be empty except for peanuts and newspaper.

Should I use a heat pack? The empty space may negate some of the heat to the fish on the bottom, but I've never done this before so I don't know how accurate the ratings are on those warmers. Plus, the heavy insulation with a heat pack may make it a furnace in there. The box's insulation is styrofoam 1 1/2 inches thick.

Could I get away with not using a warmer at all?

Thanks!

 

[rabbut]

I wouldn't use a warmer/heat pack at all when shipping fish. Too risky, they have a habit of cooking the stock they have be put in to help, or not working full stop, either way not really helping the fish

On an up-to 23hour journey, Oxygen Starvation will be the main killer. The Female pleco will need bagging with pure Oxygen for that time, and the babies would likely need it also, depending on their size and how many are packed in how larger bag Packing an adult Pleco, even a small 4" specimen, in air in your average fish bag will only support the stock for 6-12 hours maximum. Ideally, if you can't pack with pure Oxygen, they will need posted via next day guaranteed before 9am delivery, and you send them off at the last possible moment at your end

All the best
Rabbut

 

[boohag]

I wouldn't use a warmer/heat pack at all when shipping fish. Too risky, they have a habit of cooking the stock they have be put in to help, or not working full stop, either way not really helping the fish

On an up-to 23hour journey, Oxygen Starvation will be the main killer. The Female pleco will need bagging with pure Oxygen for that time, and the babies would likely need it also, depending on their size and how many are packed in how larger bag Packing an adult Pleco, even a small 4" specimen, in air in your average fish bag will only support the stock for 6-12 hours maximum. Ideally, if you can't pack with pure Oxygen, they will need posted via next day guaranteed before 9am delivery, and you send them off at the last possible moment at your end

All the best
Rabbut

Would it make a difference using a "breather bag?" They're suppose to allow oxygen in and carbon dioxide out, as long as the bags aren't touching. At least, that's what their description said. The bags I bought are 11 1/2 by 19 inches. I don't now how to get/use pure oxygen.... But, thank you for putting my mind at ease about the warmers. I ordered two, but won't use them. I'll save them for myself LOL

I made three compartments out of cardboard to insert into the insulated box to keep the bags from touching each other, and the spaces are large enough to fill the bags near full. If this won't work, where do you get pure oxygen??? I can't send them guaranteed morning delivery. The best they offer is overnight, which is at least 24 full hours....

Thanks!

 

[boohag]

I wouldn't use a warmer/heat pack at all when shipping fish. Too risky, they have a habit of cooking the stock they have be put in to help, or not working full stop, either way not really helping the fish

On an up-to 23hour journey, Oxygen Starvation will be the main killer. The Female pleco will need bagging with pure Oxygen for that time, and the babies would likely need it also, depending on their size and how many are packed in how larger bag Packing an adult Pleco, even a small 4" specimen, in air in your average fish bag will only support the stock for 6-12 hours maximum. Ideally, if you can't pack with pure Oxygen, they will need posted via next day guaranteed before 9am delivery, and you send them off at the last possible moment at your end

All the best
Rabbut

I just noticed I entitled this "Fishing Ship" instead of "Shipping Fish." Oh my these poor fish.....

 

[rabbut]

Just edit the first post using the "full edit" option, and you can fix it

The breathable bags are supposed to be rubbish. This said, I've only asked one persons opinion on them, and they do have a tenancy to be incorrect...

If that courier won't do guaranteed next morning delivery, maybe look at another courier

Most suppliers of Welding materials will sell bottles of Oxygen. You will need a regulator and such like for this bottle though, and for a one off shipment that will not be cheap. One option may be to package them with air, take them to a welding materials supply shop (phoning in advance of course to ensure they will entertain the use of a small amount of Oxygen to package fish on their premises), and change them into new bags, filling them with Oxygen from one of the shops storage tanks, prior to the courier coming to collect them for delivery next day... How do you find a Welding shop? Well, I imagine they'll be in the yellow pages, but I have never had to look myself as yet

All the best
Rabbut

 

[boohag]

Just edit the first post using the "full edit" option, and you can fix it

The breathable bags are supposed to be rubbish. This said, I've only asked one persons opinion on them, and they do have a tenancy to be incorrect...

If that courier won't do guaranteed next morning delivery, maybe look at another courier

Most suppliers of Welding materials will sell bottles of Oxygen. You will need a regulator and such like for this bottle though, and for a one off shipment that will not be cheap. One option may be to package them with air, take them to a welding materials supply shop (phoning in advance of course to ensure they will entertain the use of a small amount of Oxygen to package fish on their premises), and change them into new bags, filling them with Oxygen from one of the shops storage tanks, prior to the courier coming to collect them for delivery next day... How do you find a Welding shop? Well, I imagine they'll be in the yellow pages, but I have never had to look myself as yet

All the best
Rabbut

Gosh, that sounds like a lot of work! I'll check it out though. When I read your first post, I thought maybe I could use one of those oxygen "shooters" that you use to clean your keyboard, but I guess that wouldn't work LOL

 

[love4aquatic]

I wouldn't use a warmer/heat pack at all when shipping fish. Too risky, they have a habit of cooking the stock they have be put in to help, or not working full stop, either way not really helping the fish

On an up-to 23hour journey, Oxygen Starvation will be the main killer. The Female pleco will need bagging with pure Oxygen for that time, and the babies would likely need it also, depending on their size and how many are packed in how larger bag Packing an adult Pleco, even a small 4" specimen, in air in your average fish bag will only support the stock for 6-12 hours maximum. Ideally, if you can't pack with pure Oxygen, they will need posted via next day guaranteed before 9am delivery, and you send them off at the last possible moment at your end

All the best
Rabbut

uuuum some1 forgot to mention they were BN plecs!! not commons or other gigantics!!

 

[rabbut]

I wouldn't use a warmer/heat pack at all when shipping fish. Too risky, they have a habit of cooking the stock they have be put in to help, or not working full stop, either way not really helping the fish

On an up-to 23hour journey, Oxygen Starvation will be the main killer. The Female pleco will need bagging with pure Oxygen for that time, and the babies would likely need it also, depending on their size and how many are packed in how larger bag Packing an adult Pleco, even a small 4" specimen, in air in your average fish bag will only support the stock for 6-12 hours maximum. Ideally, if you can't pack with pure Oxygen, they will need posted via next day guaranteed before 9am delivery, and you send them off at the last possible moment at your end

All the best
Rabbut

uuuum some1 forgot to mention they were BN plecs!! not commons or other gigantics!!

Did I? Even little BN's are bulky fish that will have phenominal Oxygen demands when under stress, as they are in shipment. For 23 hours, unless it's like Neons in large bags, pack as mainly air and like 2-3 to a fish bag, you will need to pack with Oxygen

Don't forget to remind the reciver to not airate the bags at the other end. After the time in transit, the Ammonia will have uild up allong side CO2. The CO2 keeps the Ammonia in it's less toxic form Ammonium. Airate and you drive off the CO2, upping the pH and converting the Ammonium into toxic Ammonia... Not good

All the best
Rabbut

 

[love4aquatic]

Did I? Even little BN's are bulky fish that will have phenominal Oxygen demands when under stress, as they are in shipment. For 23 hours, unless it's like Neons in large bags, pack as mainly air and like 2-3 to a fish bag, you will need to pack with Oxygen

Don't forget to remind the reciver to not airate the bags at the other end. After the time in transit, the Ammonia will have uild up allong side CO2. The CO2 keeps the Ammonia in it's less toxic form Ammonium. Airate and you drive off the CO2, upping the pH and converting the Ammonium into toxic Ammonia... Not good

All the best
Rabbut

ya...can you mabey simplify that? i dont understand...
(i am the reciever)

 

[Tolak]

A few comments on this. I'm sure the fish I've gotten shipped from South America through a transshipper were not packed with O2 in the bags. I'm also sure the fish I've gotten shipped in from various sources in the continental US were not shipped with O2 in the bag. I've got a tank load of baby albino bristlenose, I would have no problem bagging them tonight, letting them sit in my fishroom, and seeing how they are in 24 hours, this is how sure I am that they don't need O2.

It is warm enough now where a heat pack would not be needed for plecs. Receiving shipped fish is a good reason to have Ammo-Lock, or another product that neutralizes ammonia on hand, I normally use a good dose of prime. Aerating is part of drip acclimating, which is what I've found to be the best way to acclimate shipped fish.

We have a Classified section for a reason, with rules that are in place for a reason. One of those rules is all negotiations taking place in the topic. We have had problems in the past with members trying to negotiate through the pm system, and having a situation where either fish are shipped with no payment received, or fish paid for with no fish being received. In these situations there is not much the mods & admin can do to rectify the situation, as tracking down what actually happened through a bunch of forwarded pm's that may or may not have been edited is near impossible.

The best thing both parties can do here is look back through each others posts & transactions, and see if you are willing to assume the risk involved. Personally I would not conduct this as you have planned; http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...40&start=40 Posts # 44 & 46

 

[boohag]

A few comments on this. I'm sure the fish I've gotten shipped from South America through a transshipper were not packed with O2 in the bags. I'm also sure the fish I've gotten shipped in from various sources in the continental US were not shipped with O2 in the bag. I've got a tank load of baby albino bristlenose, I would have no problem bagging them tonight, letting them sit in my fishroom, and seeing how they are in 24 hours, this is how sure I am that they don't need O2.

It is warm enough now where a heat pack would not be needed for plecs. Receiving shipped fish is a good reason to have Ammo-Lock, or another product that neutralizes ammonia on hand, I normally use a good dose of prime. Aerating is part of drip acclimating, which is what I've found to be the best way to acclimate shipped fish.

We have a Classified section for a reason, with rules that are in place for a reason. One of those rules is all negotiations taking place in the topic. We have had problems in the past with members trying to negotiate through the pm system, and having a situation where either fish are shipped with no payment received, or fish paid for with no fish being received. In these situations there is not much the mods & admin can do to rectify the situation, as tracking down what actually happened through a bunch of forwarded pm's that may or may not have been edited is near impossible.

The best thing both parties can do here is look back through each others posts & transactions, and see if you are willing to assume the risk involved. Personally I would not conduct this as you have planned; <a href="http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...40&start=40" target="_blank">http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...40&start=40</a> Posts # 44 & 46

Unfortunately, you have misunderstood the situation entirely. I made a simple post about a heat pack for shipping my fish and just because the receiver happened to be interested in my question, you have (amazingly) construed it as some sort of "negotiation." I am NOT "negotiating" with anyone. I told Love4Aquatics in EMAIL that I wasn't sure about the heat packs and had therefore posted the question in this forum. NATURALLY, he would be curious enough to want to check out what advice I received. We have been conversing through email for months about my fish - NOT through your forum.

This is NO "negotiation." This is a GIFT. I paid an enormous amount of money for supplies and shipping just to make sure my fish go to an experienced aquarist who would take good care of them and, after reading all of his posts, I am even more at ease. But I am curious why an administrator would be so keen to besmerch a member in this way?

And one other thing. Could you please explain our "plans" to everyone in the group, ("...would not conduct this as you have planned..,") since you claim to know the intimate details.

 

[Tolak]

A few comments on this. I'm sure the fish I've gotten shipped from South America through a transshipper were not packed with O2 in the bags. I'm also sure the fish I've gotten shipped in from various sources in the continental US were not shipped with O2 in the bag. I've got a tank load of baby albino bristlenose, I would have no problem bagging them tonight, letting them sit in my fishroom, and seeing how they are in 24 hours, this is how sure I am that they don't need O2.

It is warm enough now where a heat pack would not be needed for plecs. Receiving shipped fish is a good reason to have Ammo-Lock, or another product that neutralizes ammonia on hand, I normally use a good dose of prime. Aerating is part of drip acclimating, which is what I've found to be the best way to acclimate shipped fish.

We have a Classified section for a reason, with rules that are in place for a reason. One of those rules is all negotiations taking place in the topic. We have had problems in the past with members trying to negotiate through the pm system, and having a situation where either fish are shipped with no payment received, or fish paid for with no fish being received. In these situations there is not much the mods & admin can do to rectify the situation, as tracking down what actually happened through a bunch of forwarded pm's that may or may not have been edited is near impossible.

The best thing both parties can do here is look back through each others posts & transactions, and see if you are willing to assume the risk involved. Personally I would not conduct this as you have planned; <a href="http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...40&start=40" target="_blank">http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...40&start=40</a> Posts # 44 & 46

Unfortunately, you have misunderstood the situation entirely. I made a simple post about a heat pack for shipping my fish and just because the receiver happened to be interested in my question, you have (amazingly) construed it as some sort of "negotiation." I am NOT "negotiating" with anyone. I told Love4Aquatics in EMAIL that I wasn't sure about the heat packs and had therefore posted the question in this forum. NATURALLY, he would be curious enough to want to check out what advice I received. We have been conversing through email for months about my fish - NOT through your forum.

This is NO "negotiation." This is a GIFT. I paid an enormous amount of money for supplies and shipping just to make sure my fish go to an experienced aquarist who would take good care of them and, after reading all of his posts, I am even more at ease. But I am curious why an administrator would be so keen to besmerch a member in this way?

And one other thing. Could you please explain our "plans" to everyone in the group, ("...would not conduct this as you have planned..,") since you claim to know the intimate details.

The only thing I may have misunderstood is that there is no payment or trade offered for the fish you plan on shipping. I first gave you some information on the use of O2 when shipping fish after you mentioned that using O2 sounded like a lot of work. I even gave you hints on how to replicate a shipment without having to go through the monetary investment of actually shipping.

I then commented on the use of heat packs this time of year with the species you plan on shipping. I even added a bit of acclimating info, something good suppliers & shippers provide to customers.

I mentioned the classified section, as this is the area where transactions, even free fish, are posted, discussed, and negotiated. Though you may have been discussing this through another means other than this forum, once you do start discussing it on this forum it becomes the concern of the moderating team and I.

This topic was brought to my attention by another moderator, as a topic in the moderator’s section. This is not the first time this member has had a topic in the moderator’s section. I would like for you to point out where you see besmirching, as I mentioned both parties, and provided a link to a topic that may offer a bit of insight.

It might be a good idea for you to spend some time going through as many of my posts as you have time to, and see where I “besmirch” another member. It might also be a good time to reflect on why an administrator here would be kind enough to give you this sort of a heads up concerning aquatic transactions.

Explain where I stated I know the intimate details in your planned transaction. I know the details you have provided, and assisted you in the best way possible utilizing these details. Most probably there are “intimate” details that I am aware of that you are not.

Just a word to the wise. Use what you have been freely given, or don’t, your choice.

 

[boohag]

A few comments on this. I'm sure the fish I've gotten shipped from South America through a transshipper were not packed with O2 in the bags. I'm also sure the fish I've gotten shipped in from various sources in the continental US were not shipped with O2 in the bag. I've got a tank load of baby albino bristlenose, I would have no problem bagging them tonight, letting them sit in my fishroom, and seeing how they are in 24 hours, this is how sure I am that they don't need O2.

It is warm enough now where a heat pack would not be needed for plecs. Receiving shipped fish is a good reason to have Ammo-Lock, or another product that neutralizes ammonia on hand, I normally use a good dose of prime. Aerating is part of drip acclimating, which is what I've found to be the best way to acclimate shipped fish.

We have a Classified section for a reason, with rules that are in place for a reason. One of those rules is all negotiations taking place in the topic. We have had problems in the past with members trying to negotiate through the pm system, and having a situation where either fish are shipped with no payment received, or fish paid for with no fish being received. In these situations there is not much the mods & admin can do to rectify the situation, as tracking down what actually happened through a bunch of forwarded pm's that may or may not have been edited is near impossible.

The best thing both parties can do here is look back through each others posts & transactions, and see if you are willing to assume the risk involved. Personally I would not conduct this as you have planned; <a href="http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...40&start=40" target="_blank">http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...40&start=40</a> Posts # 44 & 46

Unfortunately, you have misunderstood the situation entirely. I made a simple post about a heat pack for shipping my fish and just because the receiver happened to be interested in my question, you have (amazingly) construed it as some sort of "negotiation." I am NOT "negotiating" with anyone. I told Love4Aquatics in EMAIL that I wasn't sure about the heat packs and had therefore posted the question in this forum. NATURALLY, he would be curious enough to want to check out what advice I received. We have been conversing through email for months about my fish - NOT through your forum.

This is NO "negotiation." This is a GIFT. I paid an enormous amount of money for supplies and shipping just to make sure my fish go to an experienced aquarist who would take good care of them and, after reading all of his posts, I am even more at ease. But I am curious why an administrator would be so keen to besmerch a member in this way?

And one other thing. Could you please explain our "plans" to everyone in the group, ("...would not conduct this as you have planned..,") since you claim to know the intimate details.

The only thing I may have misunderstood is that there is no payment or trade offered for the fish you plan on shipping. I first gave you some information on the use of O2 when shipping fish after you mentioned that using O2 sounded like a lot of work. I even gave you hints on how to replicate a shipment without having to go through the monetary investment of actually shipping.

I then commented on the use of heat packs this time of year with the species you plan on shipping. I even added a bit of acclimating info, something good suppliers & shippers provide to customers.

Boohag: Yes, merely to appear on-topic as an opening to post your "links." I've seen this type of behavior before, but never by an administrator.

I mentioned the classified section, as this is the area where transactions, even free fish, are posted, discussed, and negotiated. Though you may have been discussing this through another means other than this forum, once you do start discussing it on this forum it becomes the concern of the moderating team and I.

Boohag: There was NO discussion. love4aquatic happened to mention that he was the receiver, as an emphasis on why he wanted the poster to expound on his technical comments. I didn't even know he had posted here until tonight, when I read YOUR complaint about our non-existent "discussion." We haven't even addressed each other in this thread, as anyone can plainly see.

This topic was brought to my attention by another moderator, as a topic in the moderator’s section. This is not the first time this member has had a topic in the moderator’s section. I would like for you to point out where you see besmirching, as I mentioned both parties, and provided a link to a topic that may offer a bit of insight.

Boohag: You must be kidding. You posted a link that placed love4aquatics in the harshest light possible, while the other party appeared an innocent. There's a term for that: "besmerching." Had my interests been your primary concern, you would have emailed or messaged me privately. Rather, you got your chance and you jumped on it.

It might be a good idea for you to spend some time going through as many of my posts as you have time to, and see where I “besmirch” another member. It might also be a good time to reflect on why an administrator here would be kind enough to give you this sort of a heads up concerning aquatic transactions.

Boohag: You should refrain from giving your "kind" advise unless you know what you're talking about, or even better, let someone else, without malice handle it, for they would have most definitely contacted me privately.

Explain where I stated I know the intimate details in your planned transaction. I know the details you have provided, and assisted you in the best way possible utilizing these details. Most probably there are “intimate” details that I am aware of that you are not.

Boohag: YOUR comment: "Personally I would not conduct this as you have planned." No "transaction" has even been mentioned once in this thread, much less any "plan."

Just a word to the wise. Use what you have been freely given, or don’t, your choice.

Boohag: And let me share this sage advice. Conduct yourself as an administrator.

 

[rabbut]

With all due respect, Tolak is a professional breeder, and probably one of, if not the, best placed member to give you shipping advice, as he has done it several times before himself. I'm relying on training given from when work was considering starting "internet order livestock", and hence my advice is unfortunately all theoretical, having discussed with out suppliers how they go about and recommend shipping livestock to different destinations

An Administrator's position isn't just to administer the forum, it is to co-ordinate the mods and basically keep the forum going in a "family friendly" manor. Members ripping each other off in the Buy, Sell, Swap section has lead to hostilities in the past, that obviously everyone wants to avoid, by keeping all live stock transactions on the board open to the public for review if necessary up to a point where details of addresses and payment are made, where this needs to be kept private

Regrettably, if you wanted a private "off the forum" sale, to keep with the rules, you should not really have discussed anything other than how to package the fish on here, i.e don't mention that you are transacting with another member here, keep it as a private sale. Once you state you are transacting with another member, you have to oblige by the forums Classified section rule and keep all details on the forum, or you are in breach of the rules and the Mods can remove your negotiations (and possibly all subsiquent one) from the board to prevent scamming being carried out on here. While not everyone that breaks the rules is trying to scam someone (most are just mistakes, where the members did not intend to break the rules) statistically, people not obiding by the rules are more likely to cause upset to other members

Anyhow, it's not really my place to comment here, so I've likely said enough, and am going to shut-up now

All the best
Rabbut

 

[boohag]

With all due respect, Tolak is a professional breeder, and probably one of, if not the, best placed member to give you shipping advice, as he has done it several times before himself. I'm relying on training given from when work was considering starting "internet order livestock", and hence my advice is unfortunately all theoretical, having discussed with out suppliers how they go about and recommend shipping livestock to different destinations

An Administrator's position isn't just to administer the forum, it is to co-ordinate the mods and basically keep the forum going in a "family friendly" manor. Members ripping each other off in the Buy, Sell, Swap section has lead to hostilities in the past, that obviously everyone wants to avoid, by keeping all live stock transactions on the board open to the public for review if necessary up to a point where details of addresses and payment are made, where this needs to be kept private

Regrettably, if you wanted a private "off the forum" sale, to keep with the rules, you should not really have discussed anything other than how to package the fish on here, i.e don't mention that you are transacting with another member here, keep it as a private sale. Once you state you are transacting with another member, you have to oblige by the forums Classified section rule and keep all details on the forum, or you are in breach of the rules and the Mods can remove your negotiations (and possibly all subsiquent one) from the board to prevent scamming being carried out on here. While not everyone that breaks the rules is trying to scam someone (most are just mistakes, where the members did not intend to break the rules) statistically, people not obiding by the rules are more likely to cause upset to other members

Anyhow, it's not really my place to comment here, so I've likely said enough, and am going to shut-up now

All the best
Rabbut

First, Tolak didn't interject himself in this conversation to help me - he did it as a pretense to insult another member. Whether that member deserved it or not, he should have contacted me or the other party PRIVATELY. Secondly, the point is not whether he keeps all transactions open on this website or not - it is the particular way in which he uses them. You will never convince me (nor probably any sensible person following this) that his motive was to help me ship my fish. Thirdly, as anyone can see, there was NO DISCUSSION on this board other than how best to ship my fish. NONE, until Tolak decided to reply. I posted once with a question and responded to several replies, ALL related to shipping the fish and NO MORE. The only one responsible for ANY DISAGREEMENT in this thread is Tolak, period. And if he had any integrity, he would admit it. And if you can't see that fact, I can't help you. I am so disappointed to learn that this website is not for an exchange of ideas, rather a place for others to indulge in their own personal spats, while unsuspecting people like myself are dragged into it. Finally, your comment about "causing upset to other members" is bizarre, considering the fact that the Tolak is the person here who caused UPSET.