Second Week Of Cycling

[snazy]

Thanks snazy!

My ph was lower than 6.0 on my API kit so I added a tiny bit of baking soda, was that a good idea?

No problem.

That Ph is very low, it can stall your cycle and even kill the established bacteria, so raising it is a good idea(make sure you don't do that when you have fish in as it may kill them). Ideally the Ph during cycle should be maybe minimum 7, optimum in the 8-ish range.

Have you tested the Ph during these two weeks? What was it before, or what is your tap water's ph because if it's dropping you have to be careful not to kill the cycle.
I see that NitrAtes were 5. If you are using the Api liquid test for nitrates, make sure you shake bottle 2 for a minute before testing as it will give you wrong results.

 

[snazy]

Deleted, thought your nitrites are 5ppm.
Anyway, make sure the nitrates are tested properly as high nitrates will crash the ph. Ph as low as 6 will inhibit the nitrifying bacteria
Good luck. I am trying to cycle my tank too.

 

[DBT85]

Interesting that people are saying not to use Prime when starting a fishless cycle. Surely it can't keep converting all the ammonia you add several days after you've put the water in?

My New (and first tank) Roma 240 is due to be set up at the weekend and I have a bottle of Prime but also the botle of Tetra Aqua Safe that comes with it. This has the following on the website which I assume means that it doesn't convert the Ammonia and Nitrite into less useful forms for the fishless cycling process?

• Eliminates chlorine and chloramines
• Neutralises heavy metals
• Supports the fish's protective mucus layer, which may be damaged during maintenance
• Supports the fish's ability to cope with the stress
• Contains natural extracts for clear, healthy water
• Adds iodine, magnesium, and vitamin B for health and vitality

 

[KISSfn]

Prime is the best and it states on the bottle it does not interfere with the growth of bacteria.

 

[snazy]

Surely it can't keep converting all the ammonia you add several days after you've put the water in?

It won't "convert" ammonia several days after, but if you need to do water changes later in the cycle, when nitrates start rising to a level that may crash your Ph, then it is not such a good idea while cycling. Afterwards, once you have fish in, then yes.
Prime won't prevent your tank from cycling generally, it will just slow it down and there is no point to detoxify ammonia and nitrite in a fishless cycle, as what you want is toxic ammonia and nitrite to feed the bacteria.

 

[DBT85]

Surely it can't keep converting all the ammonia you add several days after you've put the water in?

It won't "convert" ammonia several days after, but if you need to do water changes later in the cycle, when nitrates start rising to a level that may crash your Ph, then it is not such a good idea while cycling. Afterwards, once you have fish in, then yes.
Prime won't prevent your tank from cycling generally, it will just slow it down and there is no point to detoxify ammonia and nitrite in a fishless cycle, as what you want is toxic ammonia and nitrite to feed the bacteria.

So will the Tetra Aqua Safe that I mentioned above not have this problem?

 

[snazy]

Surely it can't keep converting all the ammonia you add several days after you've put the water in?

It won't "convert" ammonia several days after, but if you need to do water changes later in the cycle, when nitrates start rising to a level that may crash your Ph, then it is not such a good idea while cycling. Afterwards, once you have fish in, then yes.
Prime won't prevent your tank from cycling generally, it will just slow it down and there is no point to detoxify ammonia and nitrite in a fishless cycle, as what you want is toxic ammonia and nitrite to feed the bacteria.

So will the Tetra Aqua Safe that I mentioned above not have this problem?

No, the Tetra aqua safe is fine for fishless cycle.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Prime is the best and it states on the bottle it does not interfere with the growth of bacteria.

Don't believe everything you read, especially when it's written by the advertising/sales department!

Prime most definitely does interfere with the growth of bacteria (as indeed do most dechlorinators, not just Prime). Some of the components of the dechlorinators are inhibitory to both the AOB and NOB. Also the molecule into which the ammonia is bound, to detoxify it, is also harder to metabolise by the AOB. They'll still grow but while free in the water, particularly during cycling, they will definitely be inhibited in their growth (hence delaying the cycle). So no, Prime is not alway the best!

Later when they're cosily tucked up in their slime matrix in the filter they are protected from the worst effects of the dechlorinators, so it doesn't matter so much then.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Surely it can't keep converting all the ammonia you add several days after you've put the water in?

It won't "convert" ammonia several days after, but if you need to do water changes later in the cycle, when nitrates start rising to a level that may crash your Ph, then it is not such a good idea while cycling. Afterwards, once you have fish in, then yes.
Prime won't prevent your tank from cycling generally, it will just slow it down and there is no point to detoxify ammonia and nitrite in a fishless cycle, as what you want is toxic ammonia and nitrite to feed the bacteria.

So will the Tetra Aqua Safe that I mentioned above not have this problem?

No, the Tetra aqua safe is fine for fishless cycle.

Actually no, Tetra Aqua Safe binds to ammonia (as far as I know) so is not the ideal declorinator to use during fishless cycling any more than Prime is. You can, of course, use any dechlorinator during fishless cycling, including the previously mentioned ones but you can expect an extended cycle as a consequence.

 

[snazy]

Surely it can't keep converting all the ammonia you add several days after you've put the water in?

It won't "convert" ammonia several days after, but if you need to do water changes later in the cycle, when nitrates start rising to a level that may crash your Ph, then it is not such a good idea while cycling. Afterwards, once you have fish in, then yes.
Prime won't prevent your tank from cycling generally, it will just slow it down and there is no point to detoxify ammonia and nitrite in a fishless cycle, as what you want is toxic ammonia and nitrite to feed the bacteria.

So will the Tetra Aqua Safe that I mentioned above not have this problem?

No, the Tetra aqua safe is fine for fishless cycle.

Actually no, Tetra Aqua Safe binds to ammonia (as far as I know) so is not the ideal declorinator to use during fishless cycling any more than Prime is. You can, of course, use any dechlorinator during fishless cycling, including the previously mentioned ones but you can expect an extended cycle as a consequence.

I used to use tetra aqua safe, but it was a bit steep. It doesn't say it removes/binds toxic ammonia, unless you mean something else?

 

[Prime Ordeal]

I used to use tetra aqua safe, but it was a bit steep. It doesn't say it removes/binds toxic ammonia, unless you mean something else?

To be honest I'm not sure now. It says it removes chlorine and chloramines but doesn't specifically say it detoxifies the ammonia released from the chloramine. I tried a quick Google search but couldn't find an explicit answer. On the aquarium wiki it says it removes all three (i.e. it binds the ammonia too), so I'm not sure.

 

[snazy]

I have amquel as well, should I use that?

Do you think the prime is what's keeping my ammonia so high?

Here is what I found about Amquel:

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AmQuel and AmQuel+


It is not unusual to buy a product , read the dosage and away we go, so I thought within this thread I would add some facts that have been provided by the manufacturers & Material safety data sheets.

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION:
To avoid confusion it should be recognized that there are two products with the Amquel name - the original Kordon AmQuel and the recently much improved product Kordon AmQuel+ (also called AmQuel Plus)

PH Stability Problems: Do not use AmQuel (can lower Ph) but use AmQuel Plus (has a buffer included)

TESTING:
AmQuel may affect the dyes in certain types of cotton fabrics. This happens for the same reason that Ammonia test kits using the Nessler reagents do not work with AmQuel or AmQuel+

COMPATABILITY:
AmQuel should not be added to water containing active, therapeutic dosages of chemical dyes such as methylene blue, acriflavine, potassium permanganate or malachite green, since AmQuel will interfere with their proper performance.

A COMPARISON BETWEEN AMQUEL AND AMQUEL+

The similarities are that both AmQuel and AmQuel+ are fast acting in what they do, accomplishing their tasks within about five minutes after being added to water

Removal of Nitrites, Nitrates, and other Organics:

AmQuel removes (actually detoxifies) a slight amount of Nitrites and Nitrates and other related organics, but less than 1 ppm, and not enough to be significant. However, Regular use of AmQuel+, such as in weekly doses, will control all the toxic nitrogen compounds in regular aquarium and pond keeping, including nitrates and pheromones.


OXYGENATION:

AmQuel+ momentarily takes out of the water 0.3-0.4 ppm (parts per million, = milligrams per liter) of oxygen. In all aquarium and pond keeping with fish and other living organisms under satisfactory conditions this will not be a factor.
It would only be of concern if the aquarium is way overcrowded. This concern usually happens when the aquarist has no aeration or is using a "waterfall" type of filter as the only water movement in the aquarium. In this case only a slight amount of oxygen is getting to the bottom of the aquarium.

For all aquarium keeping abundant aeration and water movement is important. When only one dose of AmQuel+ is used at a time, there is not a problem in having a deficiency of oxygen in the water. Regular AmQuel does not affect the oxygen in the water.
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[OldMan47]

Amquel, Prime, Aqua safe and all of the other dechlorinators are regularly used in cycles with no problem at all. A large overdose of the active sodium thiosulphate that they all use has been shown to inhibit bacterial growth during a cycle but normal usage does not add any time to a cycle.

Note: product descriptions are written by the sales department, not the research scientists. They say whatever the sales team thinks will sell product. Face it, they even sell products that will "cycle" your tank on day one according to the sales department. Since the only truly effective product for that is no longer being made and was chancy even when it was available, the sales department is basically selling snake oil.
Since providing substantial evidence in a court of law to stop the misleading sales pitch would be nearly impossible, the sale of these nostrums continues.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Amquel, Prime, Aqua safe and all of the other dechlorinators are regularly used in cycles with no problem at all. A large overdose of the active sodium thiosulphate that they all use has been shown to inhibit bacterial growth during a cycle but normal usage does not add any time to a cycle.

Everything in that statement is wrong.

 

[OldMan47]

Please take your opinions to the scientific section and spar with Bignose. We are here in this section trying to actually help people who need practical advice. Everything I have said has been proven correct over the last several years of helping people right here on getting through their cycles.