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Scientific Theories/Paradoxes
- Thread starter Rocky998
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OP
OP
Already wasted that time a week or two ago for that... I can undo it but then I would have wasted my past-self's time even more...
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
NO. When you travel in time you are no longer a physical being. Therefore you cannot kill your grandfather as you cannot interact with the real world. All you can do is observe, So you can travel back n time to wintess events, but you cannot have any effect on them. When you return to your time, you become corporeal again. This means there can be no paradox but there can be time travel.
You cannot die in the past. Nor can two of you exist at the same time. So even if you travel back in your own lifetime you cannot change the events. You are still non-corporeal.
Or maybe the tralfamadorians got it right. Your life is like a long worm made up os segments in time of your life from start to end. Tralfamadorians can chose to be in whatever segemts they want. So they just live in the best ones. Humans are unable to perceive time as it is and are force to live linearly. For A tralmadorian the start of life and then end of it are points past which you cannot go. Anywhere in between is where you live at will. We choose to live it in order.
"Tralfamadorians have the ability to experience reality in four dimensions; meaning, roughly, that they have total access to past, present, and future; they are able to perceive any point in time at will.
Able to see along the timeline of the universe, they know the exact time and place of its accidental annihilation as the result of a Tralfamadorian experiment, but are powerless to prevent it. Because they believe that when a being dies, it continues to live in other times and places, their response to death is, "So it goes." They are placid in their fatalism,......."
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/illusion-chasers/slaughterhouse-5/
Slaughterhouse 5 is one of my favorite books from the age when I read voraciously. I read Hesse's The Glass Bead Game (Magister Ludi) 576 pages and all three books in the Lord of the Rings trilogy in a week. All I did was read, eat and sleep and little else. I was a pretty fast reader in those days. I jsut traveled back in time to confirm that ........
You cannot die in the past. Nor can two of you exist at the same time. So even if you travel back in your own lifetime you cannot change the events. You are still non-corporeal.
Or maybe the tralfamadorians got it right. Your life is like a long worm made up os segments in time of your life from start to end. Tralfamadorians can chose to be in whatever segemts they want. So they just live in the best ones. Humans are unable to perceive time as it is and are force to live linearly. For A tralmadorian the start of life and then end of it are points past which you cannot go. Anywhere in between is where you live at will. We choose to live it in order.
"Tralfamadorians have the ability to experience reality in four dimensions; meaning, roughly, that they have total access to past, present, and future; they are able to perceive any point in time at will.
Able to see along the timeline of the universe, they know the exact time and place of its accidental annihilation as the result of a Tralfamadorian experiment, but are powerless to prevent it. Because they believe that when a being dies, it continues to live in other times and places, their response to death is, "So it goes." They are placid in their fatalism,......."
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/illusion-chasers/slaughterhouse-5/
Slaughterhouse 5 is one of my favorite books from the age when I read voraciously. I read Hesse's The Glass Bead Game (Magister Ludi) 576 pages and all three books in the Lord of the Rings trilogy in a week. All I did was read, eat and sleep and little else. I was a pretty fast reader in those days. I jsut traveled back in time to confirm that ........
OP
OP
Ahh I see what you're talking about now, in that case yah... That is understandable
Tralfamadorians and their relationship with vivid PTSD flashbacks... I love that book too.
I once spent time at the bedside of someone in a talking coma. He relived a harsh event I was the only other living witness to, and his monologue was chillingly exact. He was reliving the event out loud. Past events still exist like that as long as a mind, or a document remains. Unrecorded, they are gone with those who experienced them. In dementia patients and dying people, the past can be alive. In trauma and flashbacks too, as well as in warm memories. But those are finite things.
I studied history, and have always felt like we don't need science fiction. I like the genre, but reality was weirder. If we want unimaginable, we need to try to get into the head of a person who wrote or lived something 1000 years ago. we may understand them to a degree, but.
The kind of time travel we're talking here is a fun game, and a thought experiment that beats shopping.
I once spent time at the bedside of someone in a talking coma. He relived a harsh event I was the only other living witness to, and his monologue was chillingly exact. He was reliving the event out loud. Past events still exist like that as long as a mind, or a document remains. Unrecorded, they are gone with those who experienced them. In dementia patients and dying people, the past can be alive. In trauma and flashbacks too, as well as in warm memories. But those are finite things.
I studied history, and have always felt like we don't need science fiction. I like the genre, but reality was weirder. If we want unimaginable, we need to try to get into the head of a person who wrote or lived something 1000 years ago. we may understand them to a degree, but.
The kind of time travel we're talking here is a fun game, and a thought experiment that beats shopping.
Uberhoust
Fish Herder
OK this is a bit of a fun one. I have read a number of things here, most really don't make current scientific sense.
1) Time is relative to the observer, but it does not imply you can travel to a different time from the one you already are in. Time is known to be relative, and has been proven scientifically, every GPS satellite provides a time code based on an internal atomic clock so that the signal can be adjusted for the "current" time. But this does not provide any ability to travel in time, but instead suggests that the time is experienced differently for different observers. Right now each of us is experiencing time slightly differently because each of us is influenced by the gravity of our planet slightly differently, but we don't every go back in time. This can be measured. (for travelling speed of light arguments)
2) We use math to model our universe. We have to remember this math is an approximation. Because the math allows one to go backwards in time doesn't imply that the universe works that way. (for scientists saying time can go backwards)
3) Time travel violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics, a law that still has been never shown to be false in any case. What does the time traveler use for energy and mass in their new time? Does mass and energy just get removed from one timeline, to the other? Just moving through time would require additional energy to re-arrange the mass used to make the time traveler in their "historic" time or will require an addition of mass to the previous time line. Both possibilities require a spontaneous like appearance of mass and energy within a snapshot of time. (major argument for the arrow of time)
4) If we could go the speed of light consider a 1 gram object hitting an object travelling has to potential to release 350 kt equivalent of TNT (the Fat Man bomb release under 100 kt TNT equivalent). This can be calculated using the relativistic kinetic energy calculation and converting the joules to kt of TNT. That would require a massive amount of shielding and you can forget rotating magnets because those would only affect magnetic materials. Also consider that the light received on this vessel would be blue shifted far into the cosmic ray energy scale. Finally consider the energy required to accelerate the mass of the shielding to relativistic speeds. (shielding required for FTL travel)
Time travel just does not make any sense. Of course if the universe is playing with its laws then I guess there is no saying what could happen, but that would just be supposition and would change the nature of our conversation.
If you really want something that is hard to wrap your head around with current physics consider quantum entanglement.
1) Time is relative to the observer, but it does not imply you can travel to a different time from the one you already are in. Time is known to be relative, and has been proven scientifically, every GPS satellite provides a time code based on an internal atomic clock so that the signal can be adjusted for the "current" time. But this does not provide any ability to travel in time, but instead suggests that the time is experienced differently for different observers. Right now each of us is experiencing time slightly differently because each of us is influenced by the gravity of our planet slightly differently, but we don't every go back in time. This can be measured. (for travelling speed of light arguments)
2) We use math to model our universe. We have to remember this math is an approximation. Because the math allows one to go backwards in time doesn't imply that the universe works that way. (for scientists saying time can go backwards)
3) Time travel violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics, a law that still has been never shown to be false in any case. What does the time traveler use for energy and mass in their new time? Does mass and energy just get removed from one timeline, to the other? Just moving through time would require additional energy to re-arrange the mass used to make the time traveler in their "historic" time or will require an addition of mass to the previous time line. Both possibilities require a spontaneous like appearance of mass and energy within a snapshot of time. (major argument for the arrow of time)
4) If we could go the speed of light consider a 1 gram object hitting an object travelling has to potential to release 350 kt equivalent of TNT (the Fat Man bomb release under 100 kt TNT equivalent). This can be calculated using the relativistic kinetic energy calculation and converting the joules to kt of TNT. That would require a massive amount of shielding and you can forget rotating magnets because those would only affect magnetic materials. Also consider that the light received on this vessel would be blue shifted far into the cosmic ray energy scale. Finally consider the energy required to accelerate the mass of the shielding to relativistic speeds. (shielding required for FTL travel)
Time travel just does not make any sense. Of course if the universe is playing with its laws then I guess there is no saying what could happen, but that would just be supposition and would change the nature of our conversation.
If you really want something that is hard to wrap your head around with current physics consider quantum entanglement.
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