Sap's And Birchirs

TigerTiger...

I've been keeping bichirs since the middle 1970s and currently have about 30 of them so I guess you could say that I've developed a bit of a fondness for them :rolleyes: Currently I have representatives of every recognized species/subspecies except P. ansorgii, P. bichir bichir, and P. teugelsi (all of which I'm still working diligently to acquire).

Always good to find another bichir keeper.


P teugelsi are now available in the UK (if you have the money for them), so it shouldn't be too long before they are available in the US as well.


.A tropical Puffer is a one tank species and that is that

While a matter of some contention, if you choose the right puffer with the right tankmates, many people have no problems at all keeping some puffers with [/i]some[/i] tankmates. To say they are species tank only fish is not always strictly true.
 
Fella,

Of course there are always exceptions to generalized statements but in my (admittedly limited) experience with puffers...primarily African ones...I've found them to be untrustworthy around other fish. It isn't that they immediately mangle their tank-mates but eventually I end up losing fish, often with heads and other vital body parts bitten off, obviously caused by a puffer's rather formidable choppers.

Don't get me wrong...I like puffers and have kept a few of them over the last few years but I just don't want to risk my other fish. I feel the same way about puffers that I do about African lungfish (which I have one of in its own aquarium). Their potential to do significant damage is just too high, in my opinion.

-Joe
 
Fella,

Of course there are always exceptions to generalized statements but in my (admittedly limited) experience with puffers...primarily African ones...I've found them to be untrustworthy around other fish. It isn't that they immediately mangle their tank-mates but eventually I end up losing fish, often with heads and other vital body parts bitten off, obviously caused by a puffer's rather formidable choppers.

Don't get me wrong...I like puffers and have kept a few of them over the last few years but I just don't want to risk my other fish. I feel the same way about puffers that I do about African lungfish (which I have one of in its own aquarium). Their potential to do significant damage is just too high, in my opinion.

-Joe


Certinaly, I agree. i would never advise someone who hasn't kept puffers before to mix tankmates, some are simply too unpredictable, however, I do believe that some can be kept together. As for african ones with tankmates, that's generally a no-no! I'd agree with that in most instances.

On a slightly different note (apologies for the thread hijack) how quickly do ornate bichirs grow? I've got one at 4" and am looking to grow him on. How long till he's a decent size would you say?
 
Like most fish, growth rate for Polypterus ornatipinnis varies with the individual. However, if you have one that isn't a picky eater and you keep it in clean water you can expect a young Ornate Bichir to put on as much as 1 1/2 inches per month during its juvenile growth spurt and then to start to slow down considerably when it reaches about 8 - 10 inches. Remember that these fish can live in excess of 20 years and eventually reach a length of about 24 inches.

Back on the puffer topic...I once made the sad mistake of trying to temporarily house an African Pike Characin (Phago sp.) with a Congo Puffer (Tetraodon miurus) while I cleaned out the Characin's tank. I figured it wouldn't be too dangerous since the Pike Characin stayed almost exclusively near the surface and the Congo Puffer was strictly a bottom-dweller. Besides, it was only going to be for an hour at the most. Anybody who knows anything about T. miurus can already guess what happened next and I was certainly dismayed when I returned to fetch the Phago and found that only half of him was remaining.

-Joe
 
Joe --

I think your examples of African puffers are not entirely indicative of pufferfish in general. The African species traded include species that are piscivorous. In other words, they aren't aggressive towards other fish, they are predatory on them. Totally different issue. Since pufferfish that eat fish will take either small fish whole or pieces of large fish (such as their fins or scales) housing them with anything except perhaps armoured catfish is very difficult.

The Asian species are different. Some are fish-eaters in part (e.g., Auriglobus spp, fin-and-scale eaters) or whole (e.g., T. suvatti). But others do not eat fish normally, such as figure-8s and Carinotetraodon spp. In some cases these fish may nip fins when hungry or out of curiosity, but they aren't "piscivores" in the strict sense. Mixing them with other species seems to vary on a bunch of factors that aren't reliably clear to me. I have found C. irrubesco to be entirely peaceful with tetras and glassfish, while others have found it to be a fin-nipper. One published expert on the group told me that among C. lorteti it varies depending on where they come from, the Thai specimens being fin-nippers but the Vietnamese specimens being altogether more safe with other fish and each other. So there may be some regional variation.

The South American species are different again. SAPs are not aggressive or territorial because they are schooling fish. I've seen them nip at things when hungry, particularly livebearers and Corydoras, but they are completely safe (in my experience) with fast-swimming tetras and robust catfish like plecs and Synos kept in a reasonably big aquarium.

The general rule -- freshwater pufferfish aren't community species -- is basically sound advice, but the reasons are complex and vary from species to species. In some instances, it may be possible to combine certain pufferfish with other species. Some people have done this and had success (myself include) while other people have tried and ended up seeing their other fish with nipped fins or worse. Obviously if the puffer is a predatory species, adding tankmates is very, very risky, but where the puffers feed on invertebrates rather than fish the risk is less clear-cut, to me at least.

Cheers, Neale
 
Neale,

I agree that it really isn't fair to make a blanket statement that all puffers are dangerous fish all of the time and it certainly wasn't my intention to make a blanket condemnation of the entire Family. The puffers that I watched (in an LFS) dismantle a Rope Fish were South American puffers and they worked in tandem to take that poor Polypterid apart! Puffers in general have the dental equipment and occasionally the personality to do significant damage to any fish they can catch and I've noted that even 'fast' fish can occasionally suffer damage because puffers seem to be relentless in their pursuit of their intended target. Even fish that can easily outswim the puffers will eventually be cornered in the confines of an aquarium if a puffer (or puffers) decide that there is something tasty to be had. Is this inevitable? No...certainly not...and I'm sure there are plenty of people who have kept puffers of various types in community settings without suffering any losses to their other fish. However...given their dental array and their potential as a predator...I've simply arrived at the conclusion that it isn't worth the risk. If I keep any puffers (which I'm not currently doing) then they get an aquarium of their own.

-Joe
 
Fruitbat,
I am not experienced as you but i like to think i am close.

Perhaps you can help me on this.

I think this is a lapradei... but a mate thinks its the 'Saddleback'

So we await its size as the Lapradei will grow longer.

What do you think?

Someone else threw a Senegalas in the ring.

Anyway here it is

PICT0164.jpg


PICT0202.jpg
 
Ah ha! so i am right as i thought. Thankyou.

Can you tell me more about them. I think they grow to about 30 inches in the wild is this true?

Are they quite common/rare?

Thanks for that....Now off to collect my money :rolleyes: :good:
 
P. Bichir lapradei 18-24 inches adult size as to their commonality it seems to depend they have been fairly common in my area depending on the time of year.They are still wild caught in Africa and not farmed as some species are.

Farmed species include
P.senegalus (normal and albino) hence the low cost of specimens prior to farming an albino senegal would cost $100-!200
P.ornatipinnis
P.palmas polli
P.delhezi
P.endlicheri

The other species are wild caught in Africa as of this time-Anne
 

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