Sap's And Birchirs

demonmagus

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Hi, in 180g cichlid tank could I have a shoal of SAP's? the stocking (and presumably) most aggressive fish in there will include an oscar



also, any chance with a senegal?
thanks
 
Hi, in 180g cichlid tank could I have a shoal of SAP's? the stocking (and presumably) most aggressive fish in there will include an oscar




thanks


Definitely not a very good combination. SAP's are skittish fish, combined with something as robust (and big!) as an oscar, then trouble seems inevitable.
 
I was thinking that, would they be alright with other south american cichlids or are they just too aggro?


if not, any suggestions would be welcomed



thanks
 
SAP's are very small, and would only really be suitable with apistogramma style cichlids rather than fish like oscars and jack dempseys.
 
I think SAPs are just too small to be safe with bichirs, except maybe those small Polypterus palmas polli or even ropefish. Years ago, I kept a single SAP with a subadult Polypterus palmas polli for a few weeks and had no problems, but certainly not long enough to make any meaningful statement about their compatibility over the long term.

If I were keeping SAPs with cichlids, I'd tend to keep the SAPs as the midwater fish and then various dwarf (or at most krib-sized) cichlids at the bottom, making sure the cichlids had plenty of cover. SAPs don't like going into thickets of plants or wood, or rocky caves, so the cichlids would have "personal space" they could retire to away from the SAPs. Conversely, dwarf cichlid aggression tends to be limited to the bottom six inches or so of the aquarium, so the SAPs would be ignored provided they learned to stay out of the danger zone.

I have personally kept SAPs with Mikrogeophagus ramirezi and Pelvicachromis taeniatus and had no problems with either. Dwarf cichlids usually stand their ground and learn which end of the SAP is dangerous, and more often than not defend themselves sufficiently firmly that the SAPs back off. In a 180 gallon tank, semi-aggressive fish like convicts and firemouths might even be possible, assuming those cichlids had enough space and water depth that they ignored the SAPs.

An oscar would simply eat an SAP. Dwarf pike cichlids might conceivably be one option, but my guess is even the smallest pikes would be at least try and eat an SAP.

Cheers, Neale
 
I'd canvas some opinions on this before trying it out. My experiences of convicts and firemouths in a 200 gallon tank with LOTS of rocks was that they were relatively peaceful, each having their own territory and basically sticking to it. But I'd definitely only try it if I had a back-up plan, and even then, with baby convicts and firemouths to start with. Throwing a bunch of juvenile SAPs into a tank containing adult, territorial convicts is probably asking for trouble.

Cheers, Neale

so a trial with the cons and firemouths then
 
It depends on what Birchir. They all have slightly different temprements. Its not that they are aggressive its the fact that they are as blind as a bat!
But some will attack just that bit more on instinct. The senegal is OK and fairly average for birchirs plus you are only probably looking at a max of 14 inches. The weeksii is about the safest bet its quite placid.
The delhezi which is probably the most common sold can be a bit feisty.
There are anther 8 species . You can PM me if you need a run down as remember these can go from 10 inches long while some go 30 inches long.

They go totally on smell with a little help of movement. Quite often it will not follow anything to eat but if the meal comes to close to them its 'Goodnight'.
My Birchirs have tried to take my 6 inch Clowns and had one in his mouth only because he was chomping on a Earthworm and the silly loach tried to steal it from him. He had the loach side on but after a few seconds released it.
People get the wrong impression as they do not follow anything like a Tiger perch or Paranha, they can't as they can't see it.

I can drop food into my tank and before it hits the floor the poly is on the move and he could be facing the other way. He searches food out as well. My lima's can smell it and they hover in the facinity like the Tiger but 100% the Poly will go straight to it wherever it is. Brilliant!
Also good for the tank too as they seem to have an endless appetite so hoovering up is on their menu but be careful not to over feed its easy done with these.
They have not been around for 100 million years for nothing!

Fantastic Creatures
 
SAP....I assume this is the current acronym for South American Puffer???? If that assumption is correct then I'd definitely recommend against keeping them with any bichirs at all. I personally witnessed a trio of smallish puffers totally destroy a reasonably large Rope Fish (Erpetoichthys calabaricus) even to the point of ripping one of its gill covers completely away from its body. Personally, I would never put any sort of puffer in with my beloved bichirs. Puffers are the spawn of Satan's loins! :shifty: Great fish for species tanks though.

-Joe
 
I could not agree more.....A tropical Puffer is a one tank species and that is that. They are verocious and the only way i would have one is in a tank on its own :nod: .......Maybe one day.

That's a nice Birchir you have there. Seems you have a pationate love for them like me.

They are one of the most interesting and charactaristic fish out there..I love em! :hyper: :D
 
most aggressive fish in there will include an oscar



Just thought I'd put this out there... As far as Oscars go, they're not agressive for cichlids... as a matter of fact they seem to be one of the big fish that don't realize that they are predators... I'd say no the the Sengal, as eventually the oscar would probably look at it as a long worm that's food...
 
Sorry i should have read your original post started i just did not see the Puffer .

Your eyes get a bit naff at my age :crazy:

Most should be OK with cichlids though but even then be careful of size differences.
 
TigerTiger...

I've been keeping bichirs since the middle 1970s and currently have about 30 of them so I guess you could say that I've developed a bit of a fondness for them :rolleyes: Currently I have representatives of every recognized species/subspecies except P. ansorgii, P. bichir bichir, and P. teugelsi (all of which I'm still working diligently to acquire).

Always good to find another bichir keeper.
 

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