Salt Controversy Brackish Water

[grayshark1956]

adding iodine, as opposed to iodide or iodate, to an invert tank. will, or may, cause a mass moult.

it will also cause an Axolotl to mature into a Salamander. (not really relevant, but interesting)
[/quote


Thanks for reminding me about iodine, I'm not thrilled with it either in spite of reading some people recommend it anyway, I don't want to jeopardize my tank. It may be a while until I can start a brackish tank, I have done the best I can to treat and solve the salt controversy right now until I get another tank. I want my crabs to survive until then, that's why I am so worried about them I think.

 

[grayshark1956]

adding iodine, as opposed to iodide or iodate, to an invert tank. will, or may, cause a mass moult.

it will also cause an Axolotl to mature into a Salamander. (not really relevant, but interesting)
[/quote


Thanks for reminding me about iodine, I'm not thrilled with it either in spite of reading some people recommend it anyway, I don't want to jeopardize my tank. It may be a while until I can start a brackish tank, I have done the best I can to treat and solve the salt controversy right now until I get another tank. I want my crabs to survive until then, that's why I am so worried about them I think.

 

[grayshark1956]

I used Red Sea Marine salt when i had mine, the Iodine reportedly helps when moulting, I never got round to buying any but it never seemed to be an issue. I ran my tank at SG1.010-SG1.015 which I believe is a lot higher than what you are running judging by your other posts, you may have to supplement additional calcium, magnesium and iodine at your lower levels but I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination.

That said I think that your Fiddlers might struggle anyway due to your low SG

I agree, I need to look into that and I also wonder if ammonia levels are low, would they feel better or live longer? Wish I had looked for SG test kit, maybe they come in strips? Anything else you can think of I should check their water for? :unsure

Ammonia is a no-no, it should be zero. SG test kit is basically a hydrometer, you pour water into it and it tells you what SG you have. But remember that SG varies with temperature, there are more expensive hydrometers out there that will measure salinity at the particular temperature of your tank.

I agree about ammonia, I checked and my bottle of AmmoniaSafe detoxifies ammonia and I want to add it exactly right to ensure crabs and fish are ok until I can get a new tank for brackish water for my crabs. New tank has to be postponed due to family member's illness with unknown outcome. I just hope my crabs are okay for the next few weeks since I can't move them somewhere else this week.

 

[grayshark1956]

I used Red Sea Marine salt when i had mine, the Iodine reportedly helps when moulting, I never got round to buying any but it never seemed to be an issue. I ran my tank at SG1.010-SG1.015 which I believe is a lot higher than what you are running judging by your other posts, you may have to supplement additional calcium, magnesium and iodine at your lower levels but I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination.

That said I think that your Fiddlers might struggle anyway due to your low SG

I agree, I need to look into that and I also wonder if ammonia levels are low, would they feel better or live longer? Wish I had looked for SG test kit, maybe they come in strips? Anything else you can think of I should check their water for? :unsure

Ammonia is a no-no, it should be zero. SG test kit is basically a hydrometer, you pour water into it and it tells you what SG you have. But remember that SG varies with temperature, there are more expensive hydrometers out there that will measure salinity at the particular temperature of your tank.

I agree about ammonia, I checked and my bottle of AmmoniaSafe detoxifies ammonia and I want to add it exactly right to ensure crabs and fish are ok until I can get a new tank for brackish water for my crabs. New tank has to be postponed due to family member's illness with unknown outcome. I just hope my crabs are okay for the next few weeks since I can't move them somewhere else this week.

 

[nmonks]

Can we please be crystal clear that adding an "iodine" supplement (as when using marine aquarium supplement) is NOT adding iodine. Adding iodine directly to any kind of aquarium will be dangerous, even lethal, and not something we recommend. So just to reiterate, "iodine" supplement is NOT iodine, it's a solution containing iodide/iodate salts.

Adding "iodine" supplement is in fact adding potassium iodide or sodium iodate or something similar. These are 100% safe, and recommended, even necessary, to long-term success with crustaceans. There's a huge literature on this over on the marine side of the hobby, and rather than avoiding "iodine" supplement you should actually research it and find out how much you need.

Mass moults presumably occur because the crustaceans are overdue a moult, and when the iodide/iodate becomes available, they all "catch up" with these overdue moults. It's not a bad thing, and in fact many crustaceans should be moulting very regularly, every couple of weeks for young coldwater crayfish, slowing down to annually, if that, for adults near full size. Since crayfish and other crustaceans eat their moults, and their diet in captivity is unusually rich, there's no real risk involved if nutrition (including iodide/iodate) is correct.

The wrong thing to use the "mass moult" as a justification for NOT using "iodine" supplement because you don't want to spend the money. If you can't afford the marine aquarium supplement, then at least provide iodide/iodate through appropriate diet -- Spirulina flake or pellet, Sushi Nori, specific crustacean foods, and possibly WHOLE seafood items that feed on marine algae, such as mussels, which will have the algae in their guts.

Cheers, Neale

adding iodine, as opposed to iodide or iodate, to an invert tank. will, or may, cause a mass moult.

 

[grayshark1956]

Can we please be crystal clear that adding an "iodine" supplement (as when using marine aquarium supplement) is NOT adding iodine. Adding iodine directly to any kind of aquarium will be dangerous, even lethal, and not something we recommend. So just to reiterate, "iodine" supplement is NOT iodine, it's a solution containing iodide/iodate salts.

Adding "iodine" supplement is in fact adding potassium iodide or sodium iodate or something similar. These are 100% safe, and recommended, even necessary, to long-term success with crustaceans. There's a huge literature on this over on the marine side of the hobby, and rather than avoiding "iodine" supplement you should actually research it and find out how much you need.

Mass moults presumably occur because the crustaceans are overdue a moult, and when the iodide/iodate becomes available, they all "catch up" with these overdue moults. It's not a bad thing, and in fact many crustaceans should be moulting very regularly, every couple of weeks for young coldwater crayfish, slowing down to annually, if that, for adults near full size. Since crayfish and other crustaceans eat their moults, and their diet in captivity is unusually rich, there's no real risk involved if nutrition (including iodide/iodate) is correct.

The wrong thing to use the "mass moult" as a justification for NOT using "iodine" supplement because you don't want to spend the money. If you can't afford the marine aquarium supplement, then at least provide iodide/iodate through appropriate diet -- Spirulina flake or pellet, Sushi Nori, specific crustacean foods, and possibly WHOLE seafood items that feed on marine algae, such as mussels, which will have the algae in their guts.

Cheers, Neale

adding iodine, as opposed to iodide or iodate, to an invert tank. will, or may, cause a mass moult.

Thanks for writing about iodine, I understand the differences between the forms. You'll be happy to know I found a hydrometer today and its in the tank, all tankmates are fine. Yes, I have the right variety of crab food, they have a wonderful home here. No, I would not add table salt, I will get appropriate salt. I have and will still search about crab care and diet, they're so interesting it makes me want more of them! Next week when I'm back on a normal schedule, I can think about another tank if things here allow one.

 

[grayshark1956]

New update with excitement: I just spent almost 2 hours cleaning my tank with a suction device that did not work, have new filter that does work, have supplies all over the place, have 2 dogs watching, plants, rocks and cave are out, air stone out, hydrometer is out, etc. I checked tank to make sure crabs were out of corner so I could put rocks then cave back in, I discover a crab is missing! I look on floor, no crab. I check under furniture, no crab. I look in sink and kitchen floor, no crab. I look in dog's mouth who likes to chase living things, no crab. I look inside containers and plants, no crab. I look under towel on floor, no crab. I check hall by front door, no crab. So, I decided to put tank back together piece by piece thinking I'll buy a new crab tomorrow. Well, good thing my lucky penny is really lucky, I found the crab inside the plastic rock cave and he would not come out. During all this my phone rings, dogs want treats, cat waits for food, etc. I held cave over water and coaxed him out by offering him the chance to watch a recorded shark week show, and he came out, was slightly scared, probably thought I would take away a priveledge of some sort. So, now everyone is fine, everything is working except the fish cleaner which I will exchange tomorrow. I would have been up all night looking for him because he would not respond even if I called him by name, that's because he doesn't have a name and wouldn't listen anyway. So, I'm going to bed soon, will study crab care and brackish water again tomorrow because I want to know how salinity changes, whether by ammonia levels, nitrates and nitrites, salt, water change, de-chlorinator, fish waste and uneaten food, etc. I still have a way to go with learning. :rolleyes

 

[grayshark1956]

New update with excitement: I just spent almost 2 hours cleaning my tank with a suction device that did not work, have new filter that does work, have supplies all over the place, have 2 dogs watching, plants, rocks and cave are out, air stone out, hydrometer is out, etc. I checked tank to make sure crabs were out of corner so I could put rocks then cave back in, I discover a crab is missing! I look on floor, no crab. I check under furniture, no crab. I look in sink and kitchen floor, no crab. I look in dog's mouth who likes to chase living things, no crab. I look inside containers and plants, no crab. I look under towel on floor, no crab. I check hall by front door, no crab. So, I decided to put tank back together piece by piece thinking I'll buy a new crab tomorrow. Well, good thing my lucky penny is really lucky, I found the crab inside the plastic rock cave and he would not come out. During all this my phone rings, dogs want treats, cat waits for food, etc. I held cave over water and coaxed him out by offering him the chance to watch a recorded shark week show, and he came out, was slightly scared, probably thought I would take away a priveledge of some sort. So, now everyone is fine, everything is working except the fish cleaner which I will exchange tomorrow. I would have been up all night looking for him because he would not respond even if I called him by name, that's because he doesn't have a name and wouldn't listen anyway. So, I'm going to bed soon, will study crab care and brackish water again tomorrow because I want to know how salinity changes, whether by ammonia levels, nitrates and nitrites, salt, water change, de-chlorinator, fish waste and uneaten food, etc. I still have a way to go with learning. :rolleyes

New update with excitement: I just spent almost 2 hours cleaning my tank with a suction device that did not work, have new filter that does work, have supplies all over the place, have 2 dogs watching, plants, rocks and cave are out, air stone out, hydrometer is out, etc. I checked tank to make sure crabs were out of corner so I could put rocks then cave back in, I discover a crab is missing! I look on floor, no crab. I check under furniture, no crab. I look in sink and kitchen floor, no crab. I look in dog's mouth who likes to chase living things, no crab. I look inside containers and plants, no crab. I look under towel on floor, no crab. I check hall by front door, no crab. So, I decided to put tank back together piece by piece thinking I'll buy a new crab tomorrow. Well, good thing my lucky penny is really lucky, I found the crab inside the plastic rock cave and he would not come out. During all this my phone rings, dogs want treats, cat waits for food, etc. I held cave over water and coaxed him out by offering him the chance to watch a recorded shark week show, and he came out, was slightly scared, probably thought I would take away a priveledge of some sort. So, now everyone is fine, everything is working except the fish cleaner which I will exchange tomorrow. I would have been up all night looking for him because he would not respond even if I called him by name, that's because he doesn't have a name and wouldn't listen anyway. So, I'm going to bed soon, will study crab care and brackish water again tomorrow because I want to know how salinity changes, whether by ammonia levels, nitrates and nitrites, salt, water change, de-chlorinator, fish waste and uneaten food, etc. I still have a way to go with learning. :rolleyes

 

[grayshark1956]

I know its early and I'm trying to wake up but I could swear I made a new post thismorning and can't find it anywhere, maybe I did not hit submit button right, it would have shown by now. I'll start over as soon as I wake up more. My post was about fiddlers and red claw crabs. Wondered what happened to it?

 

[grayshark1956]

Okay, I'm awake now,...my tank had cloudy white water 2 days after cleaning entire tank so I changed the filter (it was dirty), did partial water change, bought some clear water by Jungle that clears the water and removes odors (which I discovered thismorning) and I do not see algae anywhere. So, the tank has cleared up a bit, I removed last 2 goldfish and will see how it looks in the morning. I guess its cloudy from fish waste but I don't overfeed and maybe the crabs are dirty like goldfish probably were. I'll check it first thing in the morning. Jungle directions say to re-treat in 48 hours, so that would be Mon night or Tues morning, I'll know by looking at the water. This did not seem at all like bacteria bloom, that has always gone away. But the cloudy water does not look good, it bothers me when I can't see all the tankmates. Oh, forgot to mention the cheap gravel suction cleaner I bought does not work at all.

 

[grayshark1956]

I used Red Sea Marine salt when i had mine, the Iodine reportedly helps when moulting, I never got round to buying any but it never seemed to be an issue. I ran my tank at SG1.010-SG1.015 which I believe is a lot higher than what you are running judging by your other posts, you may have to supplement additional calcium, magnesium and iodine at your lower levels but I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination.

That said I think that your Fiddlers might struggle anyway due to your low SG

I agree, I need to look into that and I also wonder if ammonia levels are low, would they feel better or live longer? Wish I had looked for SG test kit, maybe they come in strips? Anything else you can think of I should check their water for? :unsure

Ammonia is a no-no, it should be zero. SG test kit is basically a hydrometer, you pour water into it and it tells you what SG you have. But remember that SG varies with temperature, there are more expensive hydrometers out there that will measure salinity at the particular temperature of your tank.

Yes I know about ammonia and how dangerous it is, bought a floating hydrometer and my tank is lower in salt but I recently read iodine (well iodide in salt) is beneficial. I know its not true iodine being added which is lethal, I meant to say iodized salt. Now, when I read on the internet that some people add iodized salt and some don't, my question is: which one is better? Just curious, the more I read the more I wonder. Thanks

 

[grayshark1956]

I think the problem here is our careless use of chemistry terms. Of course we are NOT talking about iodine; yes, that would be toxic. What we actually mean is iodide or iodate, both ions that make up some part of a mineral salt (such as potassium iodide or sodium iodide). Iodide is no more toxic than chloride, yet chlorine is of course deadly poisonous. So rather than getting too bogged down in whether or not iodine is toxic (it is) we should remember we're actually talking about a mineral salt that contains iodide or iodate.

It's commonly recommended that iodised cooking salt shouldn't be used in aquaria. While certainly a safe approach, there's some doubt as to whether the quantity of potassium iodide or sodium iodide in cooking salt is at sufficiently high concentration to cause harm to fish. It's definitely at a MUCH higher concentration than in seawater, but it's still a VERY SMALL amount. It's kind of like when someone says that a certain food doubles the risk of cancer. Sounds bad. But when you find out the risk of that cancer is extremely low, one in ten thousand say, then doubling that risk is still a very small risk. Same here: while cooking salt may contain more potassium iodide or sodium iodide than is "good" for fish, or for that matter crabs, the degree to which it can cause harm may well be minuscule and hardly worth bothering about compared to all the other things that can go wrong.

Bottom line, short-term, emergency use of cooking salt is unlikely to cause problems, iodised or not. But marine aquarium salt is better for lots of measurable reasons (such as pH stability and raised hardness) so there's no reason at all to use anything other than marine aquarium salt. As for "iodine", what we mean is supplying chemicals like potassium iodide or sodium iodide, and these can be properly provided through diet and/or "iodine" supplement.

Cheers, Neale

Thank you for writing, I agree about marine salt but everywhere I read says no iodine, I still have natural sea salt without iodine,

I wanted to add that I know we are not talking about true iodine and that iodized salt is different from that. I wonder though really if anything that is iodized is okay for fish and apparently it is good for crabs. I lost 1 fish after adding iodized salt and I added a small amount, it must have killed my mollie or else cause was another source. My solution? I'm going to get a larger tank, bigger filter, already have salt. I can put fish in one tank, crabs in another. Think I'll do that today, already have a spare heater. But, do I need a filter for crab tank or can they get by without one for a day or so? I have everything else they need. Hope you see this message soon and can advise, thanks!