Roseline Sharks And Tetras? And What Tank Would You Make?

[Gankutsuou]

Okay. So I've set up a 10 gallon tank which i just love. I had been out of the fish biss. for a while, but I'm back. I have, however, temporarily, overcrowded this tank. This is in anticipation that I will be getting a 40 gallon hex. tank within a month. Then let it run another month before putting in. The current list runs

4x Cardinal Neons
1x Neon Tetra
1x Glow-Light Tetra (this guy has been through 3 weeks of not feeding while living in a net, living two years alone, and finally being put in a decent filter tank again. Poor dude. He's my lil friend)
1xFlying Fox (THE flying fox... not the algea eater)
1xDragon Goby (a kid one.)
1x Kuhli loach (kid one)
1x Common Pleco (babyish)
1x Chineese butterfly sucker.

Thing is, mr. Khuli and sucker are never to be seen, the neons are comunity so they stick together. The fox does whatever he wants undisturbed by numbers. The only semi crowded man, or per say, fish, is the Dragon goby, whom is happy so long as he has space to strech out and filter on the bottom.

Now then, on to my main questions....
I have seen Roseline Sharks fit in with the bigger tetras... But will he work with cardinal tetras and Glow Lights?
He gets up to 6 inches, but he's peacful, and it doesn't look like he could fit adult tetras in his mouth... but looks can be decieving. I've seen all these sites with rummynose tetras.... but what about neons?

And if you were going to get a 40 gallon, would you make it peaceful with tons of cardinals and glow lights and neons... with a dragon goby on the bottom whom would be undisturbed and a few roseline sharks...

or would you make it into a predator tank. Add in a raphael catfish with maybe a Black Ghost knife, the goby still in. Perhaps some bala sharks. Clown loaches could hold their own too.

What would you do?

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Roseline Shark (Puntius denisonii) will be too big for a 40gal hex due to be shoaling fish that grow to 6inches each;

http/www.aquariumadvice.com/profiles/6_47_en.html

http/www.myfishtank.net/reviews/showprod.../7/cat/6/page/1

...You have a lot of stocking issues there already regardless of wether you buy a 40gal or not .

 

[Gankutsuou]

eeeehhhh - 40 would seem big enough if i only got three of them. In fact, the pet store is keeping them in a 16 gallon at the moment anywho.

It would be better than sticking clown loaches or Bala sharks in a 40 o_-. And I'm not talking like, a tall hex.
It's about 30 in long by 18 wide. I think It'd do nice...

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

eeeehhhh - 40 would seem big enough if i only got three of them. In fact, the pet store is keeping them in a 16 gallon at the moment anywho.

It would be better than sticking clown loaches or Bala sharks in a 40 o_-. And I'm not talking like, a tall hex.
It's about 30 in long by 18 wide. I think It'd do nice...

3 is too little for a shoaling fish like those, most would advise 6 minimum but that would be far too many for a 40gal- these are big, active shoaling fish remember. A 55gal tank would be much more suited to them.

Lfs can overstock their tanks because the fish are often there only for a very short amount of time and they have massive filtration systems- its not good to use lfs tanks as example on stocking your own, otherwise you will end up in big trouble with your fish.

You already have 3 fish that are very unsuitable even for a 40gal- dragon gobies are brackish fish, the common plec will outgrow the tank, the "chinese butterfly sucker" or hillstream loach as they are more commonly referred to and are sub-tropical fish and not tropical.
These fish should be rehomed (reasons mentioned beside name);


Dragon goby (brackish fish, will have no end of problems in freshwater- will end up dying);

http/www.aqualandpetsplus.com/Oddball,%20Dragon%20Goby.htm

Hillstream loach (sub tropical fish, will die slowly in temps too warm/tropical temps due to less disolved oxygen in the water);

http/www.loaches.com/species_pages/beauf...ichowensis.html

http/www.loaches.com/suckerbelly_loaches.html

Common plec (will easily outgrow a 40gal, have been known to get to 2ft long, stunted growth will end up killing it);

http/www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/speci...p?species_id=87


And this is even if you upgrade.
Tetra's need to be kept in groups of at least 6, khuli loaches do best in groups of 4+.

I would strongly advise sorting out your current stocking now before you plan on adding anymore species to the tank or your new one.

 

[Gankutsuou]

Thanks for the input!

I am aware that the goby is brackish. He came from "pet's not so smart" as i hear fish people like to call it.
meaning, these guys didn't get brackish in the first place. I have added some aquarium salt slowly though with water changes.

And yes, I am aware the neons will eventually not tolerate it. That's why i've been going back and forth on that problem on what to do with the larger tank....

All i can aford would be 3 roselines also. While suggusted 6, I think four is all my LFS has in their selling tank, and if i bought 3, the fourth would be thrown in the display tank with their numerous Roselines in that.

Hillstream loach Temperatures range from 65-75 degrees F for water. I have it set on 75 right.

The goby actually seems to have adapted very well also. He's got that pretty gold sheen to him, and vibrant colors. No sign of troubles yet.

The pleco is a worry. I do, however, need a constant non-violent cleaner/scavenger for the tank. I'm thinking i'll have to trade in every so often when he gets over 1ft. My lfs actually loves getting ones that big because they can sell them very easy.

Thanks for the advice though. Mr. Khuli does conflict with the goby also, and the flying fox conflicts with the hillstream Loach. I'm thinking that The loach will get to move to the bigger tank to... hmmm...

oh, and i also have no plans to add anything to my current tank for a long time. thanks though!

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Thanks for the input!

I am aware that the goby is brackish. He came from "pet's not so smart" as i hear fish people like to call it.
meaning, these guys didn't get brackish in the first place. I have added some aquarium salt slowly though with water changes.

And yes, I am aware the neons will eventually not tolerate it. That's why i've been going back and forth on that problem on what to do with the larger tank....

All i can aford would be 3 roselines also. While suggusted 6, I think four is all my LFS has in their selling tank, and if i bought 3, the fourth would be thrown in the display tank with their numerous Roselines in that.

Hillstream loach Temperatures range from 65-75 degrees F for water. I have it set on 75 right.

The goby actually seems to have adapted very well also. He's got that pretty gold sheen to him, and vibrant colors. No sign of troubles yet.

The pleco is a worry. I do, however, need a constant non-violent cleaner/scavenger for the tank. I'm thinking i'll have to trade in every so often when he gets over 1ft. My lfs actually loves getting ones that big because they can sell them very easy.

Thanks for the advice though. Mr. Khuli does conflict with the goby also, and the flying fox conflicts with the hillstream Loach. I'm thinking that The loach will get to move to the bigger tank to... hmmm...

oh, and i also have no plans to add anything to my current tank for a long time. thanks though!

My best advise would be to rehome the goby, as you cannot keep up on switching from brackish to freshwater before you end up killing some of the fish. I would also advise rehoming the plec and hillstream loach (they do best in temps between 19 and 23 degree's, but this may be too cool for your other fishes comfort), if you want a pleco of some sort this link contains 30 plecs under 8inches;

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=132656

I would like to add though that there is no need to have a "cleaner/scavenger" fish as algae eating pleco's will create more mess than they clean up and may even contribute to algae problems in the long run, while there are no other fish that can thrive off scavenging alone.
Even cories and khuli loaches need their own food to survive in the long run, if you have uneaten food in your tank it is a sign you are over-feeding your fish; fish food can go off very quickly in tank water, and once it does no fish will eat it (rotting food can also cause ammonia problems as well as harbor nasty deseases like columnaris).
If you want a particular fish because your tank is suited to it, fair enough, but do not let people fool you into thinking some fish will save you cleaning your tank on a regular basis.
Remember to thoroughly research your fish on the internet before you get them- www.planetcatfish.com is particually good for info on plecs, cories and other catfish, there is also a fish index here on this forum too if you want to check it out .
Not all plecs eat algae, many are infact omnivores (meaning they need a bit of everything in their diet), some are even wood eaters (like clown plecs) or insectivores or carnivores. One of the most regually recommended algae eating fish is in fact not a pleco but rather a different fish called an oto.

How long will it be until you get your 40gal (taken into consideration things like posible delays as well etc)?

Right now i would rehome the common plec, hillstream loach and dragon goby before you get your new tank to help take some of the stress off your 10gals bioload (as it is currently overstocked)- as cool as these fish may be, you must take proper responsability for them even if it means not keeping them in your tanks anymore .
You can always set up more tanks in the future and buy their types again when you have the right setup to keep them in, but for now you don't have the right environment to keep them so you should avoid having them.

Once you have rehomed your problem fish, i would buy the 40gal ASAP and move your leftover fish into it and set up your old filter imediately next to the tanks new one (check out Cloning tanks, it will help save you having to cycle the tank, also check out New Tank Syndrome in the beginner sections pinned articles if you do not know of this threat already or how the Nitrogen cycle works etc).
You will need to stock the new tank gradually after you have cloned it, almost like a tank that is newly cycled. You must work on your current species as many are schooling or shoaling fish. Boost each tetra species to 6 each (don't put too many new fish into the tank at once, just buy a couple a week to let the fish settle in the filter adjust to the added bioload) and buy another 3 khuli loaches.
Once you have done this your stocking will be far better in your 40gal and you can then work on idea's for new fish species stocking safe in the knowledge that your current fish are properly cared for and happy . Your stocking after you have sorted out the unsuitable fish and added to the fishes numbers that are staying gradually etc should look like this;

6 Cardinal tetras
6 Neon Tetras
6 Glowlight Tetras
4 Khuli loaches
1 Flying fox

 

[Gankutsuou]

Well, The 40 gallon will come in 3 weeks. I'll have it set up for cycling within that day or the next day. That's ASAP as my parents will let me

And i'm not switching brackish to fresh atm. I'm simply adding 2 TBS to the ten gallon. This is actually suggusted for freshwater fish. Also, that's much more salt than the goby got in the pet store. (Even my best local fish store says they don't bother to make the goby's water brackish... I wonder why? All online sources say if they aren't started brackish, the move to brackish should be made very slow or not at all)

And you are making some very good suggustions. I'm thinking more like...
(Final Tank)
10x Cardinal tetra
6x Neon Tetra
10x Glow light tetra
1x Dragon goby
3x Roseline Shark (Schoolers, but expensive )
1x pleco (will look into the 8 inch, but specialties are so expensive... $45 a piece )

75 degrees was suggusted for the tank by almost every fish store and site either way also.

I really like Mr. Dragon Goby though... I'd like him to stay in the tank, and he's shown no problem whatsoever thus far, and he's been in that tank a little over a week now. He's already begun to filter the rocks and such.

And yes, I am aware pleco's will be poo machines And there are blood worms/brine shrimp throwen in every three days. Khuli loaches... hmmmm. In the big tank, they may conflict a bit with the goby. He's just something i really wanna keep. But i could get him more partners in the 10 gallon.

I am Liking your suggustions a lot though. I'll think on them. It's just... well... hnnn... The Goby IS

Still exceptionally healthy.... So i dunno...
The hillstream Wasn't my biggest want. I Imagine he can get traded in for some tetras....
Right now my pleco is as big as a neon. I don't think I have to worry about him growing right away. And when he does get too big (over a foot), I can trade him in for $28 worth of food supply and such, and get another $3 baby pleco. Kinda my plan . Crazy, but a plan. Big pleco's, common or not, sell nicely around here.

Still... goby = hard to part... I've done a lot to help him... and I just really like him being around. I got rocks he can filter easily (he's been doing so), salt for him (no amounts that hurt other fish, and more than any of my 3 lfs give), and even half built the tank for places for him. (how the 10 is set up ATM.) It'd just be really painful to let that guy go. Right now, no one seems cramped or tight on space. The khuli is a hiding artist, although he can use companinons, and will get them. The Hillside, yes. I will take him back and trade in I spose... He will be missed. And i got the pleco problem hammered out.

But still, having 3 roseline sharks would be really nice w/ the neon. They wouldn't eat them, and the 40 hex is 30 in by 8, fairly tall, and will be well planted with live plants. I just think they'd fit in nice in a shoal of 3. Six or more is best, but 3 can do. That's still $90 on 3 fish, so i'll have to think on that though....

Really, thanks. You've been a big help ^-^

my 10 gallon will then look like...

4x khuli loach

But those are bottom. any suggustion for upper levels? Maybe put some cardinals in here or something?

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Well, The 40 gallon will come in 3 weeks. I'll have it set up for cycling within that day or the next day. That's ASAP as my parents will let me

And i'm not switching brackish to fresh atm. I'm simply adding 2 TBS to the ten gallon. This is actually suggusted for freshwater fish. Also, that's much more salt than the goby got in the pet store. (Even my best local fish store says they don't bother to make the goby's water brackish... I wonder why? All online sources say if they aren't started brackish, the move to brackish should be made very slow or not at all)

Constant salt treatment is not advised at all for freshwater fish, it should only be use on certain fish species as a med for for certain fish deseases, but not even at all for fish like tetras or pleco's (where it will really damage their health).
Also, although it may be more salt than the goby got at the pet shop, you have no justification to keep it in a freshwater tank when you know better than to do so.

And you are making some very good suggustions. I'm thinking more like...
(Final Tank)
10x Cardinal tetra
6x Neon Tetra
10x Glow light tetra
1x Dragon goby
3x Roseline Shark (Schoolers, but expensive )
1x pleco (will look into the 8 inch, but specialties are so expensive... $45 a piece )

75 degrees was suggusted for the tank by almost every fish store and site either way also.

I really like Mr. Dragon Goby though... I'd like him to stay in the tank, and he's shown no problem whatsoever thus far, and he's been in that tank a little over a week now. He's already begun to filter the rocks and such.

And yes, I am aware pleco's will be poo machines And there are blood worms/brine shrimp throwen in every three days. Khuli loaches... hmmmm. In the big tank, they may conflict a bit with the goby. He's just something i really wanna keep. But i could get him more partners in the 10 gallon.


I am Liking your suggustions a lot though. I'll think on them. It's just... well... hnnn... The Goby IS

Still exceptionally healthy.... So i dunno...
The hillstream Wasn't my biggest want. I Imagine he can get traded in for some tetras....
Right now my pleco is as big as a neon. I don't think I have to worry about him growing right away. And when he does get too big (over a foot), I can trade him in for $28 worth of food supply and such, and get another $3 baby pleco. Kinda my plan . Crazy, but a plan. Big pleco's, common or not, sell nicely around here.

Still... goby = hard to part... I've done a lot to help him... and I just really like him being around. I got rocks he can filter easily (he's been doing so), salt for him (no amounts that hurt other fish, and more than any of my 3 lfs give), and even half built the tank for places for him. (how the 10 is set up ATM.) It'd just be really painful to let that guy go. Right now, no one seems cramped or tight on space. The khuli is a hiding artist, although he can use companinons, and will get them. The Hillside, yes. I will take him back and trade in I spose... He will be missed. And i got the pleco problem hammered out.

But still, having 3 roseline sharks would be really nice w/ the neon. They wouldn't eat them, and the 40 hex is 30 in by 8, fairly tall, and will be well planted with live plants. I just think they'd fit in nice in a shoal of 3. Six or more is best, but 3 can do. That's still $90 on 3 fish, so i'll have to think on that though....

Really, thanks. You've been a big help ^-^

my 10 gallon will then look like...

4x khuli loach

But those are bottom. any suggustion for upper levels? Maybe put some cardinals in here or something?

If the tanks only 8inches wide that will barely allow the sharks enough room to even turn around when they are full grown- i am still not going to advise these fish for your tank.
If you want to truly enjoy and appreiciate your fish for what they are, you should give them an environment that at least meets their basic needs, after all, these are not simply things you display, they are pets and companions as well. You should give them the same respect as you would do to any other animal like a cat or dog .

If you do decide to end up parting with your goby, there is a buy/sell section on here you can try and advertise him on- there are many people with brackish tanks here that already have the right habitats for such fish if they choose to get them.
I don't mean to lecture you or anything, but i just gotta stand by what i know and believe. I would concentrate on improving your current stocking by rehoming certain fish and lowering it, especially when you get the 40gal, and then concentrate on getting new species- onec you get your new tank and have the stocking sorted, you may feel different about new fish species after all .

If i had a tank with;
6 Cardinal tetras
6 Neon Tetras
6 Glowlight Tetras
4 Khuli loaches
1 Flying fox

In it, i would add 5 platies (4females, 1male) and 3 clown pleco's to it to give it a dash of color and personality .

 

[Gankutsuou]

not 8. 18. my bad on a typo or something i spose.

Great Tank Mates: Their huge mouths and the “dragon spinesâ€￾ on their backs make dragon gobies look formidable. They don’t bother small fishes. They just look mean. You can actually keep them with small neon tetras.

that's a link from that goby site you gave me also... which kinda contradicts the whole care setup of that page... bad info or whats?

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

not 8. 18. my bad on a typo or something i spose.

Great Tank Mates: Their huge mouths and the “dragon spinesâ€￾ on their backs make dragon gobies look formidable. They don’t bother small fishes. They just look mean. You can actually keep them with small neon tetras.

that's a link from that goby site you gave me also... which kinda contradicts the whole care setup of that page... bad info or whats?

This would perhaps be a better info page on them;

http/www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_3/cav...on%20Gobies.htm

"These fish must be kept in brackish water! "

"Keeping it in freshwater will compromise its immune system, causing disease and early death."

"They generally hide all day and come out at night to feed. Since it can’t see or swim very well, the number one cause of death of these fish is starvation."

"They must be introduced into a fully cycled tank. If purchased in freshwater, cycle the tank as freshwater and slowly bring the goby’s specific gravity up .002/week, until you have reached your desired SG."

"This is not a fish for beginner aquarists or even experienced freshwater aquarists beginning in brackish water."

"Too many aquarium shops tell folks to just “add a little aquarium saltâ€￾ to make your tank brackish."

"You need to be dedicated to keep this goby, making sure to keep their water very clean and that they are eating well."

 

[Gankutsuou]

hmmmm... yesh... I probably will return him... probably get some glow lights for him... sigh...

but like i said, it will be 18 in wide, not 8. Does that not suit the roselines better?

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

hmmmm... yesh... I probably will return him... probably get some glow lights for him... sigh...

but like i said, it will be 18 in wide, not 8. Does that not suit the roselines better?

It does suit them better if it is 18inches wide but most resources i have seen so far recommend 55-75gallons as a minimum rather than 40gals for them.
I suppose one thing you could do is do a thread in the oddballs section and ask them if a tank of your dimensions could fit a group of 6 Roseline Sharks (Puntius denisonii, also known as torpedo barbs) in it, but i feel the answer is going to be a "no" because even the shoaling fish species Silver Dollars which only grow to 5inches rather than 6inches need 55gallons.

 

[Gankutsuou]

true, but overall in mass and so forth, the dollars are also longer in another way... hmmm...

but then I can't mix them with neons and such.....

how about this.....

I could do a Sengal Bichir (is that how you spell it?) With 2x Angel fish, 2x Germal blue rams, and a raphael catfish. Maybe something else. How does that sound on working?

 

[jayjay]

No senegal bichir they need at least 3' long tanks.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

true, but overall in mass and so forth, the dollars are also longer in another way... hmmm...

but then I can't mix them with neons and such.....

how about this.....

I could do a Sengal Bichir (is that how you spell it?) With 2x Angel fish, 2x Germal blue rams, and a raphael catfish. Maybe something else. How does that sound on working?

The problem with Senegal Bichirs is they are predatory fish, so in this link as CFC (one of the forums best experts on Oddball fish) explains, if you keep them with other fish, the other fish should be at least half their size, so a lot of your existing fish like tetra's would not last long once the Bichir is full grown or nearly full grown;

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=34889

Anglefish could be a problem with the neons as neon tetras are one of their natural food sources in the wild, angelfish have been known to devour them in aquariums. I don't know much on rams or raphael catfish, but as far as i know they will be fine in your new tank once you have rehomed the unsuitable fish .