Rorie's Fish House Project

[dgwebster]

An older ballast will have a buggering habit of drawing a large start current repeatedly to get going: potential source there. Ballast do need replacement as well eventually, if they are that old might be worth considering it (or even better, ditch them, buy the £6.99 pack of 4 spotlights from Wickes and fit with daylight white 1.5W LED bulbs from B&Q)

 

[Rorie]

An older ballast will have a buggering habit of drawing a large start current repeatedly to get going: potential source there. Ballast do need replacement as well eventually, if they are that old might be worth considering it (or even better, ditch them, buy the £6.99 pack of 4 spotlights from Wickes and fit with daylight white 1.5W LED bulbs from B&Q)

i think adding LED spotlights could do the trick...hopefully enough light for all the tanks out of them! Do you have a link to the 4 spotlights?

 

[dgwebster]

Funnily enough I was just browsing for a new ceiling light for the bogs, and notice a couple you may be interested in:

4 spots inc. LED bulbs:

http/www.wickes.co.uk/led-tilt-downlight-brushed-chrome/invt/205196/

Pack for 10 buy your own led bulbs:

http/www.wickes.co.uk/fixed-downlight-bchrome-pk10/invt/187147/

I first adopted LED bulbs in my hall downlighters and was wary when it said "1W equivalent to an 11W normal bulb" however they are extremely bright and the daylight white is like being at a blooming swimming pool. Just switched them to 2700k natural lighting for a better feel.

 

[Rorie]

THanks for that. Do you think i would get enough distribution of light with these given my tanks will be racked?

I was also looking at rails that the lights can be run along, so not as much down lighting but spotlights...... bit more expensive....

 

[dgwebster]

If I were to compare to my tank light, id feel dissappointed, but thats because its a display tank. If I were to compare it to my uncles fish room (an insulted shed running twin T8's) they'd provide a massive difference. Id be tempted to run then 10 set though for a true strong lighting however the initial cost in LED bulbs would be high. B&Q when I last got them had packs of 4 bulbs on offer at £15 a pack though.

 

[Rorie]

Well, thats my "I'm bored at work" job for this week! Research!

Thanks for the help and advice! I'll let you know the outcome

 

[Nick217]

Personally wouldent go for downlighters due to the moisture and heat (leads so soggy ceilings around the downlighter)
maby a few wall lights? or two IP65 Fluroscent fittings with HF Gear?

(Never had a problem with ballasts/chokes tripping rcd's before thats with 400w sodium gear and much older leak gear?)

Could just be a faulty power correction capacitators?

 

[Tizer]

Racks look good Rorie, do you think you will trust them with the weight you plan to put on them?

I have a BigDug rack in my office box room with a few tanks on and i'm not 100% sold on them, the thin sheets of ply you get with them ain't all that much, especially when they get a bit of moisture in them in a few months time. Probably have to buy some ply and double layer mine at some point.

 

[Rorie]

Racks look good Rorie, do you think you will trust them with the weight you plan to put on them?

I have a BigDug rack in my office box room with a few tanks on and i'm not 100% sold on them, the thin sheets of ply you get with them ain't all that much, especially when they get a bit of moisture in them in a few months time. Probably have to buy some ply and double layer mine at some point.

I am a bit disapointed, as last night i found a guy local who is selling his whole fish room, wooden racks and all! Could have saved some pennies.....oh well

The shelving i got from them is UDL rated - an aquarium is the ideal thing to provide the UDL (uniformly distributed load). I noticed that some of their shelving doesnt have ratings though, so as long as its not the cheap stuff you should be fine.

When they replaced the first set they sent, they replaced it with the metal shelving as they said the chipboard shelving is not recomended for aquariums 'for when they leak'. I pointed out that if my aquariums are leaking then i have big issues! haha.

That said, i am not too concerned. I will paint the chip board to give an aspect of water resistance. I will also have a thin layer of polystyrine on which will hopefully absorb any drips etc.

Just FYI, doubling up the chipboard wont strengthn it. The only way you could strengthen the chipboard is by replacing it with one sheet which is thicker. Not really needed unless it gets wet, then the thicker wood will give you more utility.

 

[ian_m]

3)) The electrics. My Dad fitted an RCD consumer unit as its in the garage and there will be a lot of water floating about in there. HOwever, issue a) RCD doesn't work with florescent lighting, so it keeps tripping! The sockets also trip....so there is an issue with one of them - my Dad is on the case!

This is quite a major issue you ought to get sorted as you don't want to return from a couple of days away and find that the moment you left the RCD tripped.

If I were doing it I would put in 2 feeds to the fish house, one for power (ie 13A sockets) and one for lighting, oh and do it properly with buried armoured cable (18 inches down) 2.5mm twin and earth, even in a plastic pipe doesn't last too long before you will have issues, usually broken core due to thermal effects as well as UV light degrading issues.

You would add another small consumer unit (say 4 way) next to your exising consumer unit (connect with 6mm cables to main house isolator) and fit a 32A breaker (not RCD) for power and 16A (not RCD) for lighting. These breakers protect against cable and other gross faults. You then wire to fish house with 4mm armoured cable for power and 1.5mm for lighting. In fish house you have a consumer unit for power say 4 way and another for lighting. In lighting one you put a single RCBO to protect lighting. In power one you fit multiple 16A RCBO's, say one for tank power, one for other fish power (water pumps, etc stuff not necessary 24/7) and other for user accesable 13A sockets eg kettle etc.

The reason for doing this is to limit the scope of failure during fault conditions and allow isolation of different areas.

The seperate light circuit is obvious, get an issue with electics and it is a lot easier to fault find when lights work.

Splitting the load in the fish house is sensible to allow sections to be powered off, for when updating/modifying, but mainly so you won't loose power to your tanks, when you plug in a wet power tool and trip the RCD.

All this comes as "voice of experience" in wiring power to workshop at end of garden. I initially wired 4mm armoured cable, but had numerous issues. Basically should have been 6mm for the length needed, as sometimes when I turned the lathe on the power dipped tripping the MCB plunging me into darkness. Also damp often caused the RCDs to trip when first turned on thus back in darkness again !!. Replaced cable (running down garden at base of fence) with 6mm for power and 1.5mm for lights and tripping RCD's now wasn't such an issue and a lot easier to fault find when the lights were on.

 

[Rorie]

This is quite a major issue you ought to get sorted as you don't want to return from a couple of days away and find that the moment you left the RCD tripped.

All is in hand - my dad used to be an electrician, now an Avionics Engineer

If I were doing it I would put in 2 feeds to the fish house, one for power (ie 13A sockets) and one for lighting, oh and do it properly with buried armoured cable (18 inches down) 2.5mm twin and earth, even in a plastic pipe doesn't last too long before you will have issues, usually broken core due to thermal effects as well as UV light degrading issues..

RE the buried cable, it really is not necessary. The cable is within a thick walled plastic pipe. Any UV rays will not get near it. Thermal expansion will effect the cable in the eves of my roof anyway, so again, no difference. Life expectance - well the last one was there for 20+ years with no issue. This is new, modern cable within a thicker plastic pipe. 2.5mm twin and earth is not sufficient for the current i will be drawing - i have used 6mm

You would add another small consumer unit (say 4 way) next to your existing consumer unit (connect with 6mm cables to main house isolator) and fit a 32A breaker (not RCD) for power and 16A (not RCD) for lighting. These breakers protect against cable and other gross faults. You then wire to fish house with 4mm armoured cable for power and 1.5mm for lighting. In fish house you have a consumer unit for power say 4 way and another for lighting. In lighting one you put a single RCBO to protect lighting. In power one you fit multiple 16A RCBO's, say one for tank power, one for other fish power (water pumps, etc stuff not necessary 24/7) and other for user accessible 13A sockets eg kettle etc.

I have taken a direct line from the main isolator over to my garage (6mm twin and earth). There is then an RCD consumer unit. Of course, the lighting, electrics for the fish room, electrics for the other half of the garage are all on different circuits. The use of RCD - i took the judgement call from my dad. He knows his stuff and his suggestion to use RCD for safety in a garage where i will be having a lot of water, running power saws, lawn movers etc was one i accepted. The use of florescent lights with RCD is another topic and one where there are a few solutions - not using fluorescents, using fluorescents which work (i have a couple ballasts that do work with it).

The reason for doing this is to limit the scope of failure during fault conditions and allow isolation of different areas.

The separate light circuit is obvious, get an issue with eclectics and it is a lot easier to fault find when lights work.

Splitting the load in the fish house is sensible to allow sections to be powered off, for when updating/modifying, but mainly so you won't loose power to your tanks, when you plug in a wet power tool and trip the RCD.

All this comes as "voice of experience" in wiring power to workshop at end of garden. I initially wired 4mm armoured cable, but had numerous issues. Basically should have been 6mm for the length needed, as sometimes when I turned the lathe on the power dipped tripping the MCB plunging me into darkness. Also damp often caused the RCDs to trip when first turned on thus back in darkness again !!. Replaced cable (running down garden at base of fence) with 6mm for power and 1.5mm for lights and tripping RCD's now wasn't such an issue and a lot easier to fault find when the lights were on.

This isnt a slap dash job! It is thought out, well planned and comes with a huge amount of experience behind it. The only issue currently is the old fluorescents do not work. New ones or different lights will fix this! If there is damp, then i would like the RCD to trip! Hence the point of putting it in. But i hope not to have damp or there will be bigger issues at hand.

Thanks for the reply, but all is in hand with the electrics.....not my hands

 

[ian_m]

Thanks for the reply, but all is in hand with the electrics.....not my hands

Thats good then. Its is easy to get the electrics correct now than to unreliably bodge later.

The only reason I quoted 2.5mm (glad to see you are using 6mm) is my mate ran 2.5mm to his shed in plastic pipe which eventually failed. I suspect the blue water pipe he used was not UV resistant and cracked and let rain water in causing frequent RCD trips (not good for his freezer !!). Replaced with 4mm armoured and not been a problem since.

 

[fishy1204]

just read through all of that was a goood read (might have missed abit out as i forgot what page i was on lol)

about the lighting what type circuit breakers do you have running the lighting? as you should probably be using a type C ( not a general household type B ) as the start up currents from the lighting may cause it to trip ( i think thats right im in my 3rd year of electrics at college and thats what iv been told so i hope it helps )

 

[Rorie]

just read through all of that was a goood read (might have missed abit out as i forgot what page i was on lol)

about the lighting what type circuit breakers do you have running the lighting? as you should probably be using a type C ( not a general household type B ) as the start up currents from the lighting may cause it to trip ( i think thats right im in my 3rd year of electrics at college and thats what iv been told so i hope it helps )

You are about the right level of education to be advising haha. I was trying to think back to all the electronics i did at uni.....but it appears its long gone from my memory!

You are right, there is a high draw on the initial start up or the lights. I am not aware of the different types of circuit breakers - leaving that to the expert-at-all-father haha.

Thanks for the suggestion. A week tomorrow we will look at the solution

 

[fishy1204]

just read through all of that was a goood read (might have missed abit out as i forgot what page i was on lol)

about the lighting what type circuit breakers do you have running the lighting? as you should probably be using a type C ( not a general household type B ) as the start up currents from the lighting may cause it to trip ( i think thats right im in my 3rd year of electrics at college and thats what iv been told so i hope it helps )

You are about the right level of education to be advising haha. I was trying to think back to all the electronics i did at uni.....but it appears its long gone from my memory!

You are right, there is a high draw on the initial start up or the lights. I am not aware of the different types of circuit breakers - leaving that to the expert-at-all-father haha.

Thanks for the suggestion. A week tomorrow we will look at the solution

im pretty sure thats what it is, but you should keep the lighting seperate to the filters and heater ideally as a type C will take longer to trip as it may not give the apporpriate protection for the filters and heaters