Ro Water - Safe From Human Consumption?

[Bignose]

SH,

yes, the diffusion of water is called osmosis. But, anything can diffuse. Other chemicals can diffuse back out of the body. They diffuse in, they can diffuse back out. Both processes occur at the same time, actually -- the water goes in and the minerals come out. It doesn't happen as fast, but in the long run, those minerals come back out.

I agree that a few glasses isn't going to hurt anyone, and doing it to excess is going to be bad. But, drinking RO water everyday, day in and day out, also sounds kind of silly to me. Why throw your body's processes into reverse? Why drink RO, there are no benefits and only downsides? In the long run, taking things out of the body doesn't make sense to me.

edited for spelling

 

[CFC]

I may be wrong but could a glass of R/O water once a day actually have any medicinal value by removing some of the salts in our bodies from our modern sodium rich diets and maybe adsorbing other toxins that may be present so they can be deposited in our urine?

 

[Bignose]

I may be wrong but could a glass of R/O water once a day actually have any medicinal value by removing some of the salts in our bodies from our modern sodium rich diets and maybe adsorbing other toxins that may be present so they can be deposited in our urine?

It is an interesting idea, I think that the problem is that the RO water isn't selective, so it will just take everything, the good with the bad. It won't know to only take the sodium and leave the calcium, for example.

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Colin, SH, please take a look at this document from the World Health Organization

<a href="http/www.who.int/water_sanitation_health...mineralized.pdf" target="_blank">http/www.who.int/water_sanitation_health...mineralized.pdf</a>

Note the citations from the German Society for Nutrition.

And this pertinent quote:

"Low-mineral water
acts on osmoreceptors of the gastrointestinal tract, causing an increased flow of
sodium ions into the intestinal lumen and slight reduction in osmotic pressure in
the portal venous system with subsequent enhanced release of sodium into the
blood as an adaptation response. This osmotic change in the blood plasma
results in the redistribution of body water; that is, there is an increase in the total
extracellular fluid volume and the transfer of water from erythrocytes and
interstitial fluid into the plasma and between intracellular and interstitial fluids.
In response to the changed plasma volume, baroreceptors and volume receptors
in the bloodstream are activated, inducing a decrease in aldosterone release and
thus an increase in sodium elimination. Reactivity of the volume receptors in
the vessels may result in a decrease in ADH release and an enhanced diuresis."

or this one:

"If distilled water is
ingested, the intestine has to add electrolytes to this water first, taking them
from the body reserves. Since the body never eliminates fluid in form of "pure"
water but always together with salts, adequate intake of electrolytes must be
ensured. Ingestion of distilled water leads to the dilution of the electrolytes
dissolved in the body water. Inadequate body water redistribution between
compartments may compromise the function of vital organs. Symptoms at the
very beginning of this condition include tiredness, weakness and headache;
more severe symptoms are muscular cramps and impaired heart rate."

Or the experiments cited by Robbins and Sly where they studied animals that drank deminerlaized water.

There is a huge amount of research out there that shows the health risks associated with drinking RO water. Can you rebut any of this research? Can you provide a document that cites other scientifically peer-reviewed papers that advocate the drinking of demineralized water?

This isn't just me talking anymore, I did the leg work to did up the research that shows just how bad drinking demineralized water is. Please do the same to back up your case. I await your response.

edited to add: I do want to apologize here if I seem even more stubborn or tenacious than usual. The long time members of this forum know that I do like a good argument as much as the next one. But this really gets me going, because in this case it's not just fish who at risk, it's people and I really, really, hate to see people take foolish chances with their health unnecessarily. And, really, the drinking water in industrialized countries is -- in almost every single case -- excellent; and drinking RO water because you think that something is in your drinking water (that you haven't confirmed) is a very foolish risk.

So, I'm sticking with this, because I really want anyone who comes along and reads this thread to see the preponderance of evidence that is out there that unequivacably shows that drinking demineralized water puts your health at risk. And it is a risk that is completely unnecessary.

 

[TribeOfShroom]

The only people who are likely to suffer from this are professional athletes, (in particular marathon runners, triathletes and road cyclists) or people labouring out in the sun all day everyday and who are sweating a lot. Even as an amateur cyclist living in Western Australia where it is hot in summer, I never came close to suffering from this. You generally get plenty of salt from the food you eat. If you drink too much fresh water while exercising, and don't eat enough or take salt tablets then you might suffer from it. But it is unlikely under normal conditions.

You'd be surprised how many people, (accidently or not) would over look eating enough of a balanced diet while excerising in the ever eternal quest of beauty. It is true that professional athletes are prone to this, but most of them are aware of it and have a balanced diet.

Although I must say, this topic has definately got more interesting. It's good to see opinions backed with scientific support.

 

[raptorrex]

Bignose
So, I'm sticking with this, because I really want anyone who comes along and reads this thread to see the preponderance of evidence that is out there that unequivacably shows that drinking demineralized water puts your health at risk. And it is a risk that is completely unnecessary.

And this, perhaps more than anything in this discussion, is the real point! we as adults can choose how we feed and keep ourselves. our children are reliant on us for this. ultimately, in the long term, they are the ones most at risk from drinking RO.
even to a layman, though one who has a little knowledge of the subject, can not fail to see the potential problems of drinking this type of water. it is, effectively, a dry sponge, in water terms, (lol) and we all know what happens if you put a dry sponge in water! It is said, multi million pound businesses are built on it, that Mineral water is good for you. how then could water totally devoid of it, be good for you too?

the saddest thing about this whole thread is, that RO filtration, is totally unnecessary, in the UK and most of the developed world, even Britta is of little real benefit to the household. but we in the west, do love our gadgets!

 

[Colin_T]

I think Bignose works for the water corp
As for scientific proof of my statements. They are all over the world. I don't have any on hand at the moment but I don't need them. I have had my tap water tested by a private lab as well as the water authority in my area, and guess what, the results did not match. The private lab which I paid to have the water tested, gave me a list of over 20 chemicals/ ingredients in the water. The water corp gave me a list with only chlorine and fluoride & salt in it. I didn't have to pay the water corp for the test but I figure even if I did the results would have been the same.
The government/ water corp is not going to tell you there is hazardous materials in the water. In summer they don't tell us they are increasing the chlorine levels but you can smell the stuff in summer and not in winter. You can also test the water for yourself with various test kits. The water does have all sorts of stuff in and no-one is told about it.

As for the water corp cleaning our water before sending it to us, get real. They aren't going to filter it with micron screens or carbon. It would cost millions to do that. They have a few mesh screens to filter out the bigger particulate matter but everything else goes in. The more organic matter in the water the more chlorine they put in to compensate.

Here is a test you can do. Fill up a large white bucket with tap water and have an air stone vigorously bubbling away in it. After a week take the airstone out and look at the brown film on the inside of the bucket. It's not very well filtered.

Kidney patients in hospital are only allowed to drink R/O water, why? Because the damaged kidneys are unable to remove the stuff in tap water.

Who drinks bottled water? Why if chlorinated tap water is just as good for you?

Does anyone drink rainwater? Rainwater and R/O are virtually the same. I know people that have drunk rainwater all their lives and the only problems they have are from cavities in their teeth due to lack of fluoride when they were growing up. As far as their general health goes tho, they are a lot healthier than anyone I know that drinks tap water.

Why does tap water smell when pure water, distilled, rain or R/O not smell?

Why do people sometimes get stomach pains when drinking tap water but not rainwater? The chemicals in it react with the stomach acids and cause discomfort.

Finally back to what I said a while ago. People and animals have been drinking rain water, which is pure water similar to R/O, for millions of years and the species is still alive. Watch reptiles out in the rain, or birds in trees, they drink rainwater.

Fish live in rainwater for years and usually die because we do something silly like poison their water with chlorine and other chemicals. Need I say more?

 

[CFC]

It sounds to me like the Australian government needs to invest some tax dollars in their water treatment plants if the water over there is that bad Here in the UK in London the water may have the pH and KH of carbonate soup but its clean and well filtered with very little chlorine added (Thames water use ozone to kill most of the bacteria and only add the tiniest ammount of chlorine to keep it clean in the pipes, their ozone plant which is the largest ozone plant in Europe is just a 10 minute walk from my house). London has one of the highest population per square mile averages of any major city in the westernised world so Australia with its relatively low populations should have water fit for royalty by comparison.

Fish live in rainwater for years and usually die because we do something silly like poison their water with chlorine and other chemicals. Need I say more?

Now when was the last time you saw a fish in a puddle of rainwater? Fish dont live in rainwater, it may have started as rainwater but it soon picks up minerals as it forms water courses and lakes. If you keep fish in pure R/O water with no stabilising buffers added then they become listless pale in colour and eventually die.

 

[steelhealr]

What Bignose et al are writing are true when IN EXCESS. The average human being drinking a few glasses of RO water a day in addition to their regular diet will have no ill effect. Most people forget that the colon has a function besides just making a mess and an embarassment in the elevator. The colon absorbs water, excess bile salts and to a degree, some electrolytes.

If you are a malnourished individual in Africa, eating rice and pure RO water everyday, then, you WILL end up nutritionally depleted and with electrolyte imbalances. The average American (or UK'er) eating a (ahem) regular diet will show no ill affect from drinking a few glasses of RO water a day. Whatever electrolytes that are pulled out of the GI system after a glass of RO will be reasorbed further down in the GI tract. The evidence is clearly seen by the HUGE VOLUME of RO systems sold at Home Depot, Lowe's, etc for installation on your home faucet...to have a delicious pure glass of water.

SH

 

[Bignose]

As for scientific proof of my statements. They are all over the world. I don't have any on hand at the moment but I don't need them.

If you want to post in the Scientific Section, you do. You aren't allowed to just say whatever you want without backing it up with evidence here. I'm willing to give you some time to get them together, but please provide some sources for the statements you are making. I provided sources for my point of view, I expect the same.

Look, the point is that I could say that anyone who goes by the name of "Colin" on the Internet has blue skin, and eats live worms. And then tell you "they are all over the world" or "everyone knows that", but it doesn't mean anything. I'd need to provide proof of that statement. And, it would be up to ME to bring the proof to the discussion.

Just like it is up to YOU to bring the proof about your statements. No one, especially in here, but even in general, no one should accept your statements at face value. No one should accept mine at face value either, that's why I backed it up with further proof of my position. You need to bring your proof to the table.

 

[Bignose]

What Bignose et al are writing are true when IN EXCESS. The average human being drinking a few glasses of RO water a day in addition to their regular diet will have no ill effect. Most people forget that the colon has a function besides just making a mess and an embarassment in the elevator. The colon absorbs water, excess bile salts and to a degree, some electrolytes.

If you are a malnourished individual in Africa, eating rice and pure RO water everyday, then, you WILL end up nutritionally depleted and with electrolyte imbalances. The average American (or UK'er) eating a (ahem) regular diet will show no ill affect from drinking a few glasses of RO water a day. Whatever electrolytes that are pulled out of the GI system after a glass of RO will be reasorbed further down in the GI tract. The evidence is clearly seen by the HUGE VOLUME of RO systems sold at Home Depot, Lowe's, etc for installation on your home faucet...to have a delicious pure glass of water.

SH

Again, I agree. In excess.

But, why take the risk? It is completely unnecessary. Why do all the way to RO when other filtration methods, such as activated carbon or zeolilte give you a "delicious glass of water" without it being completely demineralized. I use a Brita filter on my tap. There is no reason to all the way to completely mineral free. It is an absolutely unnecessary risk. The risk may be small, but it should be zero. Why take a risk when you don't need to at all?!? This is like walking in the middle of the street when there is a sidewalk. Taking a completely unnecessary risk. The streets around my house are slow enough and empty of traffic enough that my chances of getting seriously hurt by walking in the street are pretty low -- but I always walk on the sidewalk. Walking in the street is an unnecessary risk.

 

[raptorrex]

The evidence is clearly seen by the HUGE VOLUME of RO systems sold at Home Depot, Lowe's, etc for installation on your home faucet...to have a delicious pure glass of water.

SH

just when have sales figures been any indication that a product is useful, less still safe? that says more about the purchaser and the purveyor than the product itself. the sales of these things are driven by the manufacturer needing to sell units, that there is no real reason for people to buy and the retailer because that's how they make a living.

steelhealr
Whatever electrolytes that are pulled out of the GI system after a glass of RO will be reasorbed further down in the GI tract

that would be fine if the body had a consistent level of minerals at all times, which it does not. and also presumes that the RO can satiate its appetite for its lost minerals in the stomach, if not it will continue to absorb them till it is absorbed in the lower intestines. even a body short of minerals will pass some of them in the body's waste. so you put none in one end and some comes out the other, result is a deficit! as Bignose says the evidence for our stance has been proffered, the only evidence from the Pro RO side, at the moment, seems to be sales figures. which you must admit, is far from convincing.

Finally, we are all aware of how bad the modern diet and lifestyle is, too much fat, not enough Veg, and so on, why buy something that at best, can only make things worse?

 

[steelhealr]

As for scientific proof of my statements. They are all over the world. I don't have any on hand at the moment but I don't need them.

If you want to post in the Scientific Section, you do. You aren't allowed to just say whatever you want without backing it up with evidence here. I'm willing to give you some time to get them together, but please provide some sources for the statements you are making. I provided sources for my point of view, I expect the same.

After combining with Bignose and the other members who helped design this forum, he is totally correct on this.

But, why take the risk?

There really is none in small amounts in our daily diet.

just when have sales figures been any indication that a product is useful, less still safe?

(sigh)...this is taken just a little bit out of context. RO home water filters are designed for the use or pure water at home. RO water..well...is just PURE WATER. The amount of water taken to cause anyone harm/hurt is in the gallons range (immediate hurt).

the only evidence from the Pro RO side, at the moment, seems to be sales figures. which you must admit, is far from convincing.

Again...out of context and...did I state sales figures as a support of drinking RO water. I don't think I said that. What I quoted was human physiology and stated that RO water taken in moderation is safe.

if not it will continue to absorb them till it is absorbed in the lower intestines. even a body short of minerals will pass some of them in the body's waste. so you put none in one end and some comes out the other, result is a deficit

Are you sure about that bobo? Do you understand calcium metabolism in the body? Where it is stored? How is it mobilized if you need some? Do you know if mineral depletion is most commonly by 'loss' or 'deficiency' (lack of intake)?
Be careful here.

SH

 

[raptorrex]

steelhealr
Are you sure about that bobo? Do you understand calcium metabolism in the body? Where it is stored? How is it mobilized if you need some? Do you know if mineral depletion is most commonly by 'loss' or 'deficiency' (lack of intake)?
Be careful here.

yes, sadly i do! though not through choice, i have had to learn vast amounts about the way the body uses and needs all the things we put into it. My child does not eat, and needs all here food passed through a tube fitted in the stomach. the needs of the child change with age so adjustments need to be made by us to ensure she is fed well and kept healthy.

the majority of calcium taken in by the body is absorbed in the small and large intestine, much more is taken by the large intestine though. its distribution are controlled by art least one hormone and Vitamin,D i believe is the vitamin. the primary storage is in bones. the control of the distribution of calcium is, for the most part done by a gland, of which i can't remember the name, placed in the region of the thyroid gland. and as far as i am aware, loss is the most common cause of depletion. i could go on the net to get the names that i do not remember, but surely that would defeat the point of your question.

and yes Mineral deficient water,. will continue to scavenge for its minerals even in the lower intestine. and any shortages will be made up by depleting the calcium content of your bones.

incidentally, a high acid content to your diet, actually inhibits the metabolism of calcium, something else to point to the trouble RO can cause if consumed on a regular basis. remember there are more minerals than calcium in water, salts too, and one of those salts is very important in the metabolism and distribution of calcium.

 

[adam98150]

Is RO water just tap water?

I didn't think it would have any effect on you, this is the only water i drink. And i drink it every single day, without fail. (Each time i go to the bathroom, in fact)

 

[CFC]

Is RO water just tap water?

I didn't think it would have any effect on you, this is the only water i drink. And i drink it every single day, without fail. (Each time i go to the bathroom, in fact)

No R/O water is water that has been purified of all minerals and elements leaving nothing but H2O, tapwater has many minerals and additives.