Ro Water - Safe From Human Consumption?

[xxBarneyxx]

Not directly a fish releated topic for discussion but seeing as a lot of people have RO units for their fish and many people want to be "healthy" and will assume that pure water has got to be good for you to drink I thought it might be worth discussing.

I looked into this when I first got my RO unit (mainly because my tap water tastes bad). There is a lot of conflicting information on whether it is safe to drink RO water or not.

Basic arguements:

Against:
RO water is too pure (acts like a solvant) and drinking it will cause it to absorb salts from your internal organs or damage cells which can cause internal bleeding and severe damage over a period of time.

For:
You would need to drink a LOT of RO water for it to do any real damage.
Portable RO units are often used in "sea survival" kits and other survival kits to purify water.

(if this is not a discussion that belongs here please delete).

Edit: Typos fixed. Added the potential problem of RO water damaging cells due to the low TDS and solvant like effect.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

i've tried it before, I'm really really fussy about water not tasting nice and I liked RO. it didn't appear to do me any serious damage but I only had a glass of it so it's hardly big quantities

it would not be cost effective to drink it all the time though

 

[Colin_T]

Against:
RO water is too pure and drink it will cause it to abosorb salts from your internal organs which can cause internal bleed and severe damage over a period of time.

Water doesn't absorb salts from inside our body. We sweat salt and minerals out through our skin and pass it when we tinkle.
We also drink rain water which is just as pure as R/O water and have been doing so for millions of years. The species is still alive.
High levels of Calcium in the water is meant to help strengthen arteries and bones but not many people have high levels in their drinking supplies. Hence the reason we drink milk or take calcium supplements.

Personally, I would rather drink pure water than chemically contaminated tap water any day

 

[TribeOfShroom]

RO or not, too much water can kill you. The reason being due to salt levels in your body. This is why if you're training, or excerising heavily or doing a marathon etc the water you drink has re-hydration salts in it

Water can affect the salt levels in your body. Drinking pure RO I doubt would have any serious consquences, but then again it could. Just remember most things living or not, including in our bodys uses osmosis at some point to create an equilibilum.

*EDIT* Dilutional hyponatraemia (low blood sodium level)
This typically occurs in endurance-type situations where there are long periods of sweating exercise when NO food has been eaten but LOTS of plain water has been drunk. As a result, sodium concentration in the blood can drop too low, with little or no dehydration.

 

[raptorrex]

the W.H.O. put upper and lower limits on the mineral content of water. over time RO water will cause many problems, granted it can be fixed by taking supplements, but why should you need to do that. perhaps the most dangerous is the acidity of RO. but RO is un buffered so it also causes swings in the body's internal systems. quite apart from the fact that, with the exception of Saltwater aquaria, it is totally unnecessary in the uk, it, over the long term, especially in young children, is potentially very dangerous. i must admit it tastes nice, but all acidic water does.
lol i have heard the comment before that the body does not absorb the mineral salts, if this is true, why do people who drink sea water, say whilst being rescued, get ill as a result? well doctors say it is because for the ingestion of the very salts and minerals some would have us believe, our body can't absorb.

just to clear up a point, i stated that with the mentioned exception RO is totally unnecessary in the uk. this is not to say i feel it is wrong for those who wish to have total control of their fishes environment to use RO, though imo they should be forced to fit a water meter if the wish too. but it must be stated it is not a vital, nor even needed, part of any fresh water setup in the UK.

 

[xxBarneyxx]

I don’t see the issue of it being unbuffered being an issue.

From what you would normally eat or drink the PH and GH will vary a lot so it is always going to be fluctuating anyway? I'm not a biologist or Doctor though so can’t say with 100% certainty. Intersting point to look at though and not one I had seen mentioned elsewhere.

With regards to sea water this dehydrates you because your body has to use water from your body to remove the salt (which in the higher concentrations is toxic to the body). This is why you get ill if you drink salt water (and have no other water to replace what you are using to remove the salt from your system). Again I don’t know the biology of this but I do at least know this to be true.

The water meter is another issue completely and not something to discuss here but I pay enough tax in this country already and see no reason why I should pay even more for water as well (not like we suffer from a lack of rain here... ).

 

[xxBarneyxx]

*EDIT* Dilutional hyponatraemia (low blood sodium level)
This typically occurs in endurance-type situations where there are long periods of sweating exercise when NO food has been eaten but LOTS of plain water has been drunk. As a result, sodium concentration in the blood can drop too low, with little or no dehydration.

Thats something I hadn't seen mentioned before as well.

I think the main issue I had seen is because it work like a solvant and disolves pretty much anything it can disolve what kidn of damage would this do to you internally?

I looked for some scientific evidence either way but couldn't find anything (problably through lack of knowing where to look ).

 

[Colin_T]

[/quote]*EDIT* Dilutional hyponatraemia (low blood sodium level)
This typically occurs in endurance-type situations where there are long periods of sweating exercise when NO food has been eaten but LOTS of plain water has been drunk. As a result, sodium concentration in the blood can drop too low, with little or no dehydration.
[/quote]

The only people who are likely to suffer from this are professional athletes, (in particular marathon runners, triathletes and road cyclists) or people labouring out in the sun all day everyday and who are sweating a lot. Even as an amateur cyclist living in Western Australia where it is hot in summer, I never came close to suffering from this. You generally get plenty of salt from the food you eat. If you drink too much fresh water while exercising, and don't eat enough or take salt tablets then you might suffer from it. But it is unlikely under normal conditions.

As for RO water having an acid PH, pure water has a neutral PH. And besides the human body is quite acidic anyway.

 

[Bignose]

The basic principle at hand is equilibrium. Nature always tends toward equilibrium.

In this case, equilibrium means that wherever there is a high concentration of anything next to a low concentration of anything, nature will tend toward taking stuff from the high concentration and out in the area of low concentration. This is one of the basic facts of nature. Mathematically, we write is as dc/dt + v*GRAD( c ) = D*DIV( c ). The three terms in this conservation of mass equation are: dc/dt = change in concentration (or stuff) per unit time. v*GRAD( c ) = convection of concentration -- this is the term that accounts for currents bringing stuff in and out and D*DIV( c ) this is the diffusion term -- the term that described how nature takes stuff in high concentration and puts it in low concentration.

You can't turn these terms off or on when you want. They are always there. Sure, depending on the magnitude of the diffusion coefficient, D, the term can be larger or smaller, but it is always there.

We all know how nature takes things from high concentrations and moves it to lower concentrations. Take a glass of water, put a drop of food coloring on the top of the glass and wait. In time, the entire glass will go from a drop of food coloring and the rest clear water to a uniform pale color. That is diffusion in action. That is nature driving toward equilibrium where the concentration of food coloring is equal in the entire glass.

So, why do you think this will not happen in your body? Why do you think that the rules of nature are going to be different in your body? They aren't! Just like the drop of food coloring starts highly concentrated on the top of the glass and eventually gets diffused to all the fluid, the minerals in your body will eventually get diffused and spread to all the fluids of your body. If you are putting in RO water, with nothing dissolved in it, the equilibrium processes -- that always occur[/i] will be in the direction of taking minerals out of your body and into the fluid. Normally, the water we drink, the process actually goes in reverse. The equilibrium usually is in the direction of taking minerals out of the water and into the body, but with pure RO water, you can't help but reverse it. It is a two-way street. You can't just turn it on or off when you choose.

Yes, it is going to take a while before anything bad happens. I don't know exactly how long. But, over time it will happen. Drinking pure RO water, the laws of nature will be obeyed, and that means dissolving bodily minerals into the pure water.

To claim that it doesn't, requires proof that the body doesn't obey these basic laws of nature. If there is such proof out there, bring it to the table.

 

[Colin_T]

anything you lose by drinking R/O water will be replaced by a normal healthy and varied diet.

 

[Bignose]

That doesn't change the fact that RO water strips the minerals out of you, and that can't be a good idea. That's not how your body was designed to work. Why make something far more difficult that it needs to be? Why not just drink regular tap water?

Is there any advantage whatsoever to drinking RO water?

 

[Colin_T]

R/O water doesn't have the nasty chemicals in it that cause liver damage and cancer.
Chlorine is not a nice chemical. It breaks down organic matter and when it comes in contact with organic matter it produces carcinogenic compounds.
Fluoride is only good in low doses and is only needed when we are growing up. Once we are adults we no longer need it to make our teeth strong because our teeth are no longer developing.
And any other nasty chemicals that are added or manage to get into our water supplies can't be good. Herbicide runoff or chemical drift.
Grit and grime from motor vehicles that is left on the roads to be washed into water courses that feed into our water catchments. This stuff contains used engine oil, grease, rubber, brake fibres and dust.
Pollution from industrial areas that causes acid rain.
Sulpher compounds if bore water is being added to dam water. High levels of iron can also come from this source. Although we need some iron in our bodies, too much will kill us.
Copper, lead, mercury, cadmium have all been found in drinking water. These are often found in garden fertilisers and aren't so bad in low doses but higher levels kill.
Too much calcium in the water can cause kidney stones.

 

[raptorrex]

Is there any advantage whatsoever to drinking RO water?

it tastes nice, but then i am told, so do some poisons. plus there is the point that if it is poorly maintained and the membrane gets damaged. the resultant water can be a very poisonous bacterial cocktail.

xxBarneyxx
The water meter is another issue completely and not something to discuss here but I pay enough tax in this country already and see no reason why I should pay even more for water as well (not like we suffer from a lack of rain here... ).

lol i see your point but if you use RO you waste 4 of every 5 litres you filter, it is only fair that you pay for it, don't you think? it doesn't matter if you use the waste for watering the garden or making your grass greener, as you would not have had it to get rid of if you did not use RO, it is also a very good reason not to use it for household use, if we all used water in such a wasteful way, our rain soaked land would soon run low, even in winter.

 

[Bignose]

R/O water doesn't have the nasty chemicals in it that cause liver damage and cancer.
Chlorine is not a nice chemical. It breaks down organic matter and when it comes in contact with organic matter it produces carcinogenic compounds.
Fluoride is only good in low doses and is only needed when we are growing up. Once we are adults we no longer need it to make our teeth strong because our teeth are no longer developing.
And any other nasty chemicals that are added or manage to get into our water supplies can't be good. Herbicide runoff or chemical drift.
Grit and grime from motor vehicles that is left on the roads to be washed into water courses that feed into our water catchments. This stuff contains used engine oil, grease, rubber, brake fibres and dust.
Pollution from industrial areas that causes acid rain.
Sulpher compounds if bore water is being added to dam water. High levels of iron can also come from this source. Although we need some iron in our bodies, too much will kill us.
Copper, lead, mercury, cadmium have all been found in drinking water. These are often found in garden fertilisers and aren't so bad in low doses but higher levels kill.
Too much calcium in the water can cause kidney stones.

As this is the scientific section, please provide some proof.

Especially one that shows that the level of chlorine in our water is responsible for any significant amount of cancer in humans. The amounts the water company should be putting in is good enough to kill the bacteria and low enough to still be safe for consumption. I don't want speculation here, show me some unbiased research that shows that the chlorine in our water is killing people. Same thing for the fluoride, show me that the levels in the water are hurting anybody. Show me some proof of the chemcials in the water that "cause liver damage and cancer".

You do realize that the water company takes out all the pollutants and grit and grime and heavy metals and all that, don't you? That that is the water company's primary job, to make water that is safe for consumption? Sure, accidents happen and sometimes the water they produce isn't safe, but the vast, vast, vast majority of water from the company is exceptionally safe.

Pollution that causes acid rain have nothing to do with a discussion of RO water, please stay on topic.

Just because some drinking water at some time was found to have these problems, that does not in any way mean that all water everywhere has these problems! Do you actually know what is in your drinking water? Is there actually mercury or lead or cadmium in your water? If there isn't in your water, then again, there is zero reason to go to RO water.

Finally, what levels of calcium are "too much"? Show me research that identifies what "too much" is.

 

[steelhealr]

OK...just some facts here:

• the movement of water from an area of lower solute concentration to an area of higher solute concentration thru a semi-permeable membrane is called osmosis.
• RO water will not 'leach out chemicals' from the human body. Pure RO water will be absorbed and move from, eg, the hollow of the stomach or intestine (low concentration) into the villi and be absorbed
• a glass or two or three of RO water will NOT hurt anyone
• any change in either pH or osmosis will be compensated for either by the kidney (via ADH or antidiuretic hormone), adrenal (aldosterone), renin or via the osmoregulatory centers in the brain (eg, vasopressin) and by breathing
• drinking RO water to EXCESS (as in gallons), such as is done in hazing in college, can rapidly overcome the bodies ability to compensate for these changes and hyponatremia can occur (dilutional). Sever hyponatremia can lead to brain edema and death or cardiac events secondary to lowering the K+

So...enjoy a glass of RO...or two..or three.....

No hazing.
SH