Re-starting 15 gallon, 1st time with sand

[PheonixKingZ]

So, @AdoraBelle Dearheart, it all depends on what species of plants you plan keep

 

[Ch4rlie]

@Ch4rlie any thoughts on sand layer, but also any thoughts if that oto is carrying eggs between her pelvic fins? There's no sand in that tank, and they have been showing some spawning like behaviours, circling each other before vanishing into plants

ETA: I did take more photos than that I can always add

Normally tanks should have between 1 - 2 inches of substrate, perhaps even 3 inches at the back to give depth but no real need for this.

The biggest issue of having too much sand is the possibity of forming anaerobic gas, this is basically small pockets of gas that is toxic to most if not all livestock and should the substrate be disturbed or the gas naturally rising out from the substrate, this WILL have an effect on any livestock coming into contact with anaerobic gas, usually results in death of said livestock that came to contact with anaerobic gas.

So therefore best to be avoided as much as possible by having sand at approximtely 2 to maybe 3 inches deep.

Plants and MTS will be more than happy with @2 inches of substrate/sand, 3 inches at max in small areas along back of tank for height/depth.

Plants will form their roots in the subtrate along the length and width of tank dimenion, no issue at all with that for plants, height of sand make little or no difference for plant roots.

I personally have never had more than approx 2 inches of sand/substrate in any of my tanks and always better safe than sorry in sticking to those tried and tested depth of substrate.

And yes, MTS will turn over the substrate, they are perfect for this in terms of getting rid of anaerobic pockets and eating leftover debris from substrate and this in turn makes mulm which is excellent for plant nutrients.

As for the oto, am afraid I have zero experience with otos though must admit I have always fancied having some in my tank/s but have not researched them enough to know about eggs, spawning and breeding behaviours etc, sorry.

Best leave that side of things for experienced breeders or oto keepers who will hopefully chime in with their opinion on this.

 

[seangee]

Agree on an average depth of around 2". At 1" you will be constantly collecting plants from the surface. As others suggest gravity will tend to level the sand so if you want a raised area you need some sort of "retaining wall".

No idea on the otos. Watch and wait - and of course keep us posted if anything does develop

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I did end up removing a good amount of sand, while still leaving a decent depth, thanks for the feedback everyone


I added one piece of dragonstone, the other piece I have needs a more thorough cleaning before I add it, getting all that clay out is a nightmare. Dragonstone looks awesome though, so worth the hassle.


I did think the sand layer looked a little too thick, so glad I got some feedback on that before I started planting or anything! Even if anaerobic pockets weren't a concern, I didn't want too much of the water volume and tank space being taken up by substrate alone. It's still maybe three inches in a couple of spots, but doesn't look as crazy thick as it did before. Will snap an update photo in a bit.

There is a sword going on the back corner where the sand is the thickest, it's those big old roots that I wanted to give it some depth for Plus just to add some visual interest so it's not all level.

 

[CassCats]

Id say thats a porky gravid oto, but ive got no experience with these lovelies, but your posts about them have made me think about them for myself lol

 

[Ch4rlie]

Forgot to mention earlier, what I tend to do if I want to remove some sand substrate from an established tank or even a newly set up tank without livestock rather than use a scoop/cup/mug whatever to remove sand as this is usually a messy method unless very gentle and taking your time is to otherwise use a syphon hose.

Simply use the syphon as you would doing a water change and to point the nozzle right at top or slightly under sand subtrate and suck up the sand moving the nozzle around a bit and direct this into a bucket until you're satisfied and repeat until you've removed enough sand from that area.

A useful little tip and this help stops the water from going all dirty and taking ages for substrate to settle again.

But if this was a established tank with livestock, do keep an eye on the water level though, fish tend to find it hard to breath the dry stuff that is air!

Worth doing this during water change day and doing a bit at a time over each water change day until finally happy with substrate.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

As for the oto, am afraid I have zero experience with otos though must admit I have always fancied having some in my tank/s

If you have a suitable for tank for some, I highly recommend them! Quite possibly my favourite fish, and I keep trying to encourage good fish keepers to get a nice little group of them. I hate the way they're gathered from the wild, but it's going to take responsibly hobbyists keeping them in good conditions and figuring out how to breed them to stop that. Plus, they're adorable and eat algae and stay small. And they'll use a sword leaf like a little oto hammock. What's not to love?

No idea on the otos. Watch and wait - and of course keep us posted if anything does develop

Come on Sean, don't be coy! It does look as though that one is carrying eggs though, right? I will make a separate thread for them. Still not expecting fry or anything, it's just exciting to see any breeding behaviour from them, and I can't think what else that could be. I'd honestly dismissed it when I took the photos, thinking it couldn't be, but it's gravel in that tank. No sand. And she's certainly more rounded than they usually are. I won't take your opinion as gospel and run with it, I promise

@NCaquatics Yay!! Please get some! If anyone could get these little guys successfully breeding, it's you. And you love your bottom dwellers too. Plus, they love living with cory cats! It's pretty much destined, you might as well give in now and place an order...

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Forgot to mention earlier, what I tend to do if I want to remove some sand substrate from an established tank or even a newly set up tank without livestock rather than use a scoop/cup/mug whatever to remove sand as this is usually a messy method unless very gentle and taking your time is to otherwise use a syphon hose.

Simply use the syphon as you would doing a water change and to point the nozzle right at top or slightly under sand subtrate and suck up the sand moving the nozzle around a bit and direct this into a bucket until you're satisfied and repeat until you've removed enough sand from that area.

A useful little tip and this help stops the water from going all dirty and taking ages for substrate to settle again.

But if this was a established tank with livestock, do keep an eye on the water level though, fish tend to find it hard to breath the dry stuff that is air!

Worth doing this during water change day and doing a bit at a time over each water change day until finally happy with substrate.

Thank you so much! Luckily, no livestock in this tank yet, and I apparently did a better job rinsing than I thought I had since it's hardly clouded up at all. Well, there's a slight cloudiness compared to the established tanks, but really no where near as bad as I'd imagined. I just lowered the water level slightly and scooped out jugfuls, maybe 3-4 kgs... I really did over do it a tad... Urgh, drying sand out is going to be a pain. Lesson learned, next time add sand gradually since it's easier to add more than to remove and dry out when you've added too much.

This is my first time using sand in a tank, so I was a it nervous, but I definitely prefer the look over gravel, and sounds easier to clean too, which I'll appreciate once shrimplets are in there.

 

[Brendanpat]

Normally tanks should have between 1 - 2 inches of substrate, perhaps even 3 inches at the back to give depth but no real need for this.

The biggest issue of having too much sand is the possibity of forming anaerobic gas, this is basically small pockets of gas that is toxic to most if not all livestock and should the substrate be disturbed or the gas naturally rising out from the substrate, this WILL have an effect on any livestock coming into contact with anaerobic gas, usually results in death of said livestock that came to contact with anaerobic gas.

So therefore best to be avoided as much as possible by having sand at approximtely 2 to maybe 3 inches deep.

Plants and MTS will be more than happy with @2 inches of substrate/sand, 3 inches at max in small areas along back of tank for height/depth.

Plants will form their roots in the subtrate along the length and width of tank dimenion, no issue at all with that for plants, height of sand make little or no difference for plant roots.

I personally have never had more than approx 2 inches of sand/substrate in any of my tanks and always better safe than sorry in sticking to those tried and tested depth of substrate.

And yes, MTS will turn over the substrate, they are perfect for this in terms of getting rid of anaerobic pockets and eating leftover debris from substrate and this in turn makes mulm which is excellent for plant nutrients.

As for the oto, am afraid I have zero experience with otos though must admit I have always fancied having some in my tank/s but have not researched them enough to know about eggs, spawning and breeding behaviours etc, sorry.

Best leave that side of things for experienced breeders or oto keepers who will hopefully chime in with their opinion on this.

Is this anaerobic gas a danger in my tank? Just recently changed tank and changed from gravel to sand . Have about 2 - 2 an half inch thick layer in 29 gallon tank . Have new live plants planted. Things to look out for or prevent this ?

 

[PheonixKingZ]

Is this anaerobic gas a danger in my tank? Just recently changed tank and changed from gravel to sand . Have about 2 - 2 an half inch thick layer in 29 gallon tank . Have new live plants planted. Things to look out for or prevent this ?

You can get MTS snails, they really help prevent them. Those pockets are caused when air gets trapped in the sand, and something dead is in there with it. The dead substance decomposed and forms the anaerobic gas.

You can also occasionally sift through your sand with some aquascaping tools, to release any of that air.

 

[FishGuest5123]

Luckily it hasn't clouded too much, I rinsed it well, and I'd literally just added the sand, filled the tank 3/4 of the way and added the filter before snapping the pic, so hopefully removing some wouldn't cause too much of a problem.

Is it just the worry about anaerobic pockets that would stop you doing more than 2 inches at the thickest areas?

The substrate looks a little too thick to me too. I agree with @PheonuxKingZ, 2” is plenty. Anymore and anaerobic pockets could form.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

The substrate looks a little too thick to me too. I agree with @PheonuxKingZ, 2” is plenty. Anymore and anaerobic pockets could form.

Yep, I've pulled a load out now, thank you both Just added a few plants before I take an update photo

 

[Ch4rlie]

Is this anaerobic gas a danger in my tank? Just recently changed tank and changed from gravel to sand . Have about 2 - 2 an half inch thick layer in 29 gallon tank . Have new live plants planted. Things to look out for or prevent this ?

Anaerobic gas is a danger in ALL tanks, mainly planted tanks as its usually the roots of plants that will bring oxygen from the water column to the root tip and therefore this will oxygenate the substrate and this can create anaerobic gas pockets.

If you started with dry substrate and scaped this before adding water then very easy to trap air and it takes a while for this air to be released from the substrate naturally. Hence this is why we recommend stirring new substrate with anything like a thin stick and stirring this in a circular motion on the substrate.

Anaerobic pockets need to be disturbed to release their toxic gasses and you will likely smell this anaerobic gas.

 

[PheonixKingZ]

If you started with dry substrate and scaped this before adding water then very easy to trap air and it takes a while for this air to be released from the substrate naturally. Hence this is why we recommend stirring new substrate with anything like a thin stick and stirring this in a circular motion on the substrate.

That is why when I start a new tank, I poor the sand in, and then I wet it down. Then I take my “spade” and push I up and down. You would be surprised on how many bubbles come up!

Just my method.

(This is what I use)

 

[Brendanpat]

I washed the sand for ages in buckets and then put it in wet then filled the tank a bit gave it a good mix up then emptied again . Done that twice before finally filling . So it looks fine at the minute