Random Notes

[Gun]

Hi guys

Errmm, I just need somewhere to keep some random notes (and maybe a few questions, lol!)..my head is going to expode, lol! Hope you guys don't mind me making a thread for this.

Ok, I'm thinking about what I need...


TANK: Well, bow V flat front?...any advice on pros & cons would be great...

The Juwel Rio 300(121 x 51 x 62cm) stands out at the moment.



SUBSTRATE: Definitley sand

I'm still thinking 2 colours..a dark sand for the bottom and some light sand to sit on the ledges (background). Depth would be minimum 2" rising in places. Looking at putting some layer of soil (roughly 1/2" in depth) below the sand.

Items Needed:



BACKGROUND: Going to have a go at making one.

Full of nooks and crannies, with caves and ledges that could stick out as far as 6-8". The ledges/top of caves would hold plants/sand. Please be capable of doing this, lol!

Items Needed:



PLANTS: Nothing to large that's going to hide (my hopefully decent looking) background. Medium/small plants for around the cave ledge and bottom areas. Some sort of grass/moss also.

Items Needed:



LIGHTING: Probably stick with the lighting that comes with tank..for a while. Like to add LED's and some sort of dimming system in time.

Items Needed:



FILTRATION: Not sure what the filtration system is like on say.. the Juwel Rio 300, I think it's internal...?

Items Needed:



DECORATION: I have some nice pieces of bogwood/black-red lava rock...maybe use these.

Items Needed:



MISC:

STAND - Got to find something solid that stands no more than 2 feet.
WATER TEST KIT/DECHLOR/CYCLE -
AIRATION -

Items Needed:

Hopefully I can get most of this filled in over the weekend...then work out the damage it's going to cause to my bank account, lol!

 

[Arachnidzone]

Gun, i often store thoughts on forums, thats why my large tank thread is so long and you can all see the thought process pregressing.

TANK: Well, bow V flat front?...any advice on pros & cons would be great...

The Juwel Rio 300(121 x 51 x 62cm) stands out at the moment.

I like the physical shape of bows and curves but dont particularly like the distorted view, a large bow isnt too bad but works best when you dont really see it from greater than about 25degree either side of the front.


SUBSTRATE: Definitely sand

I'm still thinking 2 colours..a dark sand for the bottom and some light sand to sit on the ledges (background). Depth would be minimum 2" rising in places. Looking at putting some layer of soil (roughly 1/2" in depth) below the sand.

I like sand in an aquarium. I havent used anything other than marine silica since i first tried it. For marine its best due to being round rather than jagged. Means it has more surface area for bactiria to grow on and so more filtration properties as a substrate. I think this carries over to freshwater too BUT I do advice something which will burrow and/or regularly disturb the silica, Khuli arnt strong enough so have a think depending what fish you going for.


BACKGROUND: Going to have a go at making one.

Full of nooks and crannies, with caves and ledges that could stick out as far as 6-8". The ledges/top of caves would hold plants/sand. Please be capable of doing this, lol!

This will be great! What materials you thinking of using? foam/poly covered in epoxy and painted? Another option which is have used is siliconing slate to the back (file the sharp edges off with a tile file!) A full background with outcropps etc sounds great though. Have you thought about sealing a large container or area behind to use as the filter/heater/pump enclosure? if so what are your ideas?


PLANTS: Nothing to large that's going to hide (my hopefully decent looking) background. Medium/small plants for around the cave ledge and bottom areas. Some sort of grass/moss also.

My only thoughts on plans are the good ole java fern and java moss. If you do think these then you can make plug holes in the background specially for small plants, just make a 1'2 inch hole or seal something with a little grip into the hole for the java roots and moss to cling too. Theres loads of improv materials for that.


just my thoughts back at ya! feel free to ignote or slate me!

 

[Gun]

Hi Arachnidzone

Thanks very much for your advice. I've been keeping up with your 'Eco Project' thread and this is what gave me the inspiration to become creative (although on a much smaller scale, lol!).

Yeah, I think I will probably go with a good old flat front.

TANK: The Rio 300 is the closest tank to the dimensions I'm after..so It's looking very likely to be this tank. I also like how the lid is thin (streamlined). The only thing I'm unsure about is the filter. I think it comes with the best in it's class..some jumbo/bio/mechanical thing. Does anybody know how much space this filter takes up...and whether or not it can be removed?

SUBSTRATE: Arachnidzone, your advice about Khuli loaches is interesting. Although I will still have these fellas in the tank..do you have anything in mind that could help me out with the sand....cory's..maybe? Also, how much sand (kg) would it take to cover an area of 48"x51" with a 4" layer?

BACKGROUND. Hmmm, materials? I'm not really sure yet.

Poly for the main structure, some sort of foam filler to create shape/definition, then coat in maybe epoxy/concrete...before painting. Any other easier 'fool proof' ideas to create terrain/features would be gold dust.....?

The heater will be somewhere inside the wall (well vented) as will the filter..ideally the filter would be external. I'm thinking air pockets/flow routes/planting holes aswell...the aim for this is to cut out the holes (for LED's/Bubbles/plants) in the correct/pre thought places and try to keep the design fairly simple for water flow/viewing purposes.

Guys, any advice on materials or ideas for the background would be very much appreciated Wish I could use that bloody 3d programme..be a lot easier, lol!

My thoughts at the moment are whether to try and follow a natural theme (which I think will be more difficult)..or to build it 'colosseum' like...hmmm

PLANTS: I've put a little thought into cutting holes for plants, etc...probably need a little luck choosing the right places. Java fern and jarva moss sound good for adding some greanery. I'm thinking some sort of shrub or sword like plant for the ledges also......

Edit: If your interested ArachnidZone, here's a link to another thread..

Background Thread

I had a little practice last night..trying to build ideas in my head. There's a few pics here...very rough and basic.

 

[Arachnidzone]

Gun, glad i have dded more inspiration to you!

BACKGROUND
Can i suggest another option too which can be used soley or partially for the background?...

You use a plastic mesh (flyscreen, etc), cut to the size of the back of the tank and stitch a sitable moss to it using a very fine cheap fishing line. ANyone who ca sow can do this. Then place ino the back. You can hide the inlet for the external in this too. It can either be a good enough fit no to float out, (or in the version below suction cups at the back)

Heres a link to something similar...

>>HERE<<

You could use that for the back, after a month or so the moss will fill out and pretty much seal the gaps at the edges. Maybe something else infront cave-wise?

Like the mini background practice! And know what you meanabout wanting something more fool proof, resin etc is expensive and messy. I had an idea about using material soacked or painted in something, put your tank on its back. put a load of smashed up polysyrine in and drape the cloth-thing over and ilet it set. Things stopping me trying this are what material and gluey stuff to use? and what to put into the tank 1st to stop the background sticking? Sounds good but not something i have tried!

Another option is expanding foam. You would have to create in-tank, and line the walls with newspaper and/or masking tpe 1st as it doesnt stick to glass. I have never found out if this is poisonous or water soluable in the long-term.

SAND
Silica sand, from my memory i think its about 2.75kg pr 12"x12" at 1" deep. Work it out from there. Snails wil stir it up if there are any species you personally tolerate, weather loach if you like them, theres a few smaller things like tyre track eels, Synodontis, any cichlids which 'dig' by eating and spitting.



Another

Oh and tank wise, if you want to get carried away i am selling my 6ft x18" x 18" tank!

 

[Gun]

Hi Arachnidzone. Thank's for the link

If I had the space..I would've been interested in your 6ft. I only have this alcove area (solid wall) which is (no kidding) 1" short of fitting even a 5ft in..damn! Thanks for the offer

I like your idea for shaping the background. Using cloth/mesh drapped in something would allow for a lot more control over how things look (i think). Although this idea is good, I think I may mess it up..as I've never made anything from polystyrene before.

At the moment I'm thinking of using a 2" thick piece of polystyrene ( cut into 3 slotted parts) to cover the entire back of tank. In there 'flat' form these slotted parts will have nooks/cracks carved out of them with a scalpel..going no more than 1" deep.

Then...using solid blocks of poly, carve the ledges/caves(keeping a flat back) seperately and stick them in place on each slotted piece. There would still be a lot of land shaping to do, though. Foam and melting seems like it could be the easiest for me. Also, use dowel for extra support with the ledges/caves.

Yeah, about snails. I like them...only two or three though, those biggish type ones with the nice shells...? There's also a very good chance that some sort of Cichlid will be in this tank..if it's peacful/colourful and active it's got a chance, lol!

Ok, off to read your link and to do my maths

Edit: About these backgrounds. Do they have to be sealed? Is there a way whereas you could lift each section out at will, with minimum to no effort? Only thing I can think of would be suckers. Not sure they would hold the weight though...then there's eating up tank space issues...? Another way could be to hook it over the back...with hidden wedges below the sand and the sand itself keeping the bottom in place.

 

[Arachnidzone]

Gun, biggest shame is i have sold the 5ft ex-crocodile tank a few months back! I do have a 5ftx9"x9" which would make a weird tank, would even fit nicely ontop of the rio mounted onto the wall! Would need a lid though.

The moss screen backgrounds are semi-permanent so not too bad. If you did one sheet it could be an inch or so too wide and hold itself into place with just any weighty rock in the middle somewhere curving either back or forth at the edges?

Golden apple snails. They are quite nice and will only breed if given the right conditions out of the water at the top as they come out to lay eggs. There are golden and brown versions and you can get these mail order... or... (sorry) SNail order!

Maybe there would be a way of making a polystyrene background with the moss-mesh stitched to the background so it follows the contours? It would look strange for a few months until moos and plants grew but maybe good in time?

You should maybe learn 3D modelling if you think ti would help, or if you really really would like a model i could whip it up depending what it is.

 

[Gun]

Yeah the moss/mesh idea is interesting. Maybe intergrate small areas of this mesh idea into the wall/0n ledges, caves, etc.

Thanks for the info about the snails..will look them up.

As for the 3d model..you really don't want to go there..I'll be forever asking you to tweek things, lol! By drawing sketches, I'm getting a vague idea of how i would like the ledges, etc to look. Could still take you up on his offer in the future though, If ever your not to busy, Arachnidzone

I just want to get started on this..as I would like the water to be in my tank this coming bank holiday weekend. Roughly 2 weeks to buy tank/background materials and build/install background. Something tells me I'm pushing my luck with the time, lol!

 

[Arachnidzone]

Yeah the moss/mesh idea is interesting. Maybe intergrate small areas of this mesh idea into the wall/0n ledges, caves, etc.

Thanks for the info about the snails..will look them up.

As for the 3d model..you really don't want to go there..I'll be forever asking you to tweek things, lol! By drawing sketches, I'm getting a vague idea of how i would like the ledges, etc to look. Could still take you up on his offer in the future though, If ever your not to busy, Arachnidzone

I just want to get started on this..as I would like the water to be in my tank this coming bank holiday weekend. Roughly 2 weeks to buy tank/background materials and build/install background. Something tells me I'm pushing my luck with the time, lol!

Gun, as far as im concerned... Use the poly tiles to make a base, get any larger bits of poly from any packaging anyone has bought anything in TV, etc, smash it up good so you have rock face looking bits with flat edges where it can be glued to the tiles. Slot small 3-flat sided bits into the corners where the ledges ere, things like that. Then all you have to figure is a glue (aquarium silicone) and a paint >>MAYBE LIKE THIS<<. That shouldnt be too bad!

Do bear in mind that paints sometimes 'effect' polystyrene in a way that it melts weird! BUT to be honest it looks cool and much more rocky this way. Would be cheap, would need to be made in-tank so its a tight fit or you need to come up with a way of sinking it and keeping it down as this will really want to float that deep!

Lemme know when you want a 3D plan and if i am available it shouldnt be a prob! I actually learned that program in about 2 days so maybe others could too. Rhino 3D.

 

[Gun]

A few more thoughts regarding the background..think I'm getting a clearer picture.

Ok...

STEP 1 - MAIN AREA

Im thinking of starting off with a sheet of poly (48"Lx23"Hx2"W)..this will cover the entire background.

Real difficulty here is cutting the cracks/niches from and texturing the entire surface of this sheet. Hmmm..maybe there's something that could press the poly (whilst cutting these fine niches/and texturing it at same time)...(think punch machine process in sheet metal shop..only on a smaller scale). Something that will uneven the surface and cut the cracks is what I'm trying to work out....?

STEP 2 - BUILDING THE SEPERATE MODULES.

After some thought..I've decided to build the ledges/caves etc as 'add ons'(seperate)...rather than carving from the background itself. The idea to this was to keep as much water area as possible (hence, the 2" thick main area).

These add ons will be glued into place with the aid of maybe toothpicks/dowel or something for support...then siliconed. Each piece will range in length from roughly 2"- to the entire tank length. These modules will stick out no more than say 6-8" around they entire tank. The depth of each module will be roughly no more than 3-5".

I'm thinking a 3 tiered background....

The bottom tier could be like a huge shelf. This bottom ledge (or maybe it would look more like a step) would sit around 5"-8" in height...spanning the entire back and maybe around the corners of the tank. This ledge would taper in an out towards the middle and edges of tank. The main thing here is this shelf will stick out no more than 8"(5" my aim)....so as not to take up to much tank/bottom space. The main flat top area could be cut and shaped from one piece/or two..if you want to split this ledge/step area up. I think a pretty open cave area below this shelf would look ok aswell.

The middle tier could consist of maybe 3 main pieces... 2 corner/side pieces and a middle ledge area. These ledges would stick out less than the bottom tier and look all round smaller in size....maybe stretching as far as half the length of tank.

Then the top tier could have 2 main parts....sticking out less again to the tiers below them.

Each ledge may have all or a mix of sand/rocks/plants/small caves/grass/gravel. The caves would hopefully be made with expanding foam.

So that's what I'm thinking so far. The main structure seems easy enough...the detail is what's killing me, lol!

Arachnidzone: Thanks for the link to the pond paint

As for building this...I would like to build it flat on a bench (in one piece), then cut it into 3. I think this would be the easiest way if possible.

About the 3d design. Well Arachnidzone, if you can put a vague picture together with the above info...a 3d image would be awesome I understand these things take time though...just if you ever have any spare time

Edit: Lastly the stand. Looks like I will have to make something. Try to keep it simple..flat solid piece of wood sitting on 6 22" high chunky legs.

Edit 2: About the 3d design, Arachnidzone.

It would be cool to see one of these shelve/ledges in 3d form. The surface area would be flat (maybe slightly uneven). Say..if it were a corner ledge, it would have 3 flat sides..2 at the rear/side..then the surface. The depth/underneath of the ledge would ideally be rugged in appearence..starting off at say 1" thick around the front edge..tapering inwards/downward as the piece meets the back/side of tank. Basically, I would like the edges of the ledges to look streamlined (around inch thick)..thickening up the whole module as it reaches the rear/side. Sort of lik a 3d upside down triangle shape thingy...uneven though, lol!

Also, not sure whether to keep these ledges at the back...or curve them around the sides also.....hmmm

 

[Arachnidzone]

Gun, i say draw the crevices with an iron and/or soldering iron. It will be smelly, messy and fun, be sure to let the iron cool then scrub with a scouring pad afterwards! You can pick up a cheap soldering iron for under £5 usually. So precise you could sign your name in it.

For a rio i definitely say 6 4" stump of legs with 4"x2" connecting it, then if you can find it black ash to trip and do worktop, perfect match for a black Rio! Alternative is 1/4" MDF with matt black chalkboard paint! OR even black material over the front as curtains, anything black which means when its dark you only see the tank! I use this for tanks and snake vivs, looks amazing in a dim room!

Will do a 3D plan for you!

Can i suggest anything plastic for the pegs to hold the pieces to the back. Is the plan to assemble and glue in-tank?

 

[Arachnidzone]

Also, not sure whether to keep these ledges at the back...or curve them around the sides also.....hmmm

Is the tank going to be in a central location or corner? If corner i would definitely curve the shelves into the room corner and leave the visible end shelfless. Can show you in 3D. Think you said its going in a side-of-chimney brest-alcove tough in which case i say curve em both.

EDIT:
heres a few renders. Only 2 upper shelves as i am going to bed! lol

EDIT: Oh and other toold i have used in the past when modelling with foam and poly are pliers (to literally pull a chunk out for a jagged effect) and electric carving knife (To cut the main shape)

Do have a think about the heater now too as it wont be able to sit close to the poly. Did you decide on the external or sticking with the Rio standard? If the Rio standard pump/filter/heater then you would just make 2 more shorter section to wrap around it and hide it using this background. Or at least take the background up to the box then wrap 1-2 ledges around it.

 

[Gun]

Wow Arachnidzone....Thanks very much for the renders

I'm going to add to this post (straight away)...just showing my appreciation

 

[Arachnidzone]

Wow Arachnidzone....Thanks very much for the renders

I'm going to add to this post (straight away)...just showing my appreciation

Not a prob! ts all good practice on the program. Getting more complex designing our house for Borneo now so the 3D house design program wont do it so having to design hte entire house using 3D software. Good fun but time consuming!

Look forward to more info and eventually your progress!

 

[Gun]

Yep Arachnidzone...definitly need some progress.

My plan is to have the material ordered and shipped by friday, then begin to cut the background and shape the individual ledges over the weekend

Ok, your renders

You've pretty much nailed the general idea/layout of what I'm thinking. Your pics/especially the last one is really starting to show how things could look. Viewing how the corner pieces could look is very helpful and I like how you understand about how the ledges may look underneath (sharp defined edges...become thicker/fuller bodied as they reach the tank)...nice one

I mean, when I come to making this...I may find these shapes a little tough to make...ending up with something more square/shelf/ruin like. (I think both ideas would hopefully look good though)

The forth pic is very helpul aswell. This angle gives me a different view/idea on the layout. (that shelf sitting up high in the far corner looks full of character, lol!...could have a small cave/moss/grass or whatever up there..hmmm)....probably would never be inhabited...still look ok though

Anyways, thanks again Arachnidzone for your time

Ps, will add more thoughts/ideas to this thread...hope I'm not boring you folks, lol! Eventually..the build thread will start (with progress/pics) this weekend. Oh and good luck Arachnidzone with your home design...the house itself looks fantastic

Edit: I like your plyers idea...thinking of ways to create 'ruggedness' has been killing me, lol!

As for the Rio...hmmm that filter puts me right off...it's just to much space, which ultimately means less fish Budget is pretty tight and ending up with a un-needed rio filter whilst buying an external could prove to be to costly

The hunt goes on....

 

[Arachnidzone]

Hey, try this website for prices on a bespoe...
>>HERE<<


and this one too...
>>HERE<<