Rainbowfish Shimmying And Not Eating

[platytudes]

Hi everyone,

I have a problem with an Australian rainbowfish. He seems to have lost his appetite and is shimmying and hiding, just generally not acting right. Here's a little background...

The rainbowfish is one of two rainbowfish in a 29 gallon tank. They are still fairly young, but their emerging colors suggest to me that they are both Melanotaenia fluviatilis. I originally got three of them as dither fish for my African cichlids in a 55 gallon tank. I had used brilliant rasboras as dithers in this tank successfully before, but for some reason these rainbowfish did not do well with the cichlids in the long term. They didn't get enough to eat because of the cichlid feeding frenzy, and also they tended to pick on each other...all three of them had nips when I took them out. One was more badly nipped than the others, and unfortunately passed away, in spite of my doing everything I could think of in the hospital tank to nurse them back to health - daily water changes, frozen and homemade food, Melafix, extra aeration, etc.

Eventually I plan on converting the 55 gallon into a community tank and rehoming the cichlids, so my plan is to put the two rainbowfish in there eventually. For now, 29 gallons does not seem to be too tight for them. They share their home with a few tetras (Columbian and lemon), brilliant rasboras, a pair of gold rams, and corydoras. I recently moved to a house with very hard well water with a pH ~8, alkalinity and hardness is off the charts...and no chlorination, either! Ordinarily, I do 30-40% weekly water changes to keep all of the levels in check.

Unfortunately, these past two weeks I have been fighting the flu, and I have not done any water changes, I have only been topping up water every other day. Finally on Saturday, April 5th, I felt well enough to do some water changes so all of the tanks got 50% water changes. After changing 50% of the water in the 29 gallon, the one rainbowfish started acting off.

He stayed away from the other rainbowfish, who he usually relates to, and just shimmied back and forth all day. Not violently, he just isn't doing much but swimming in place. His breathing seems faster, which is worrying me...and while on Saturday he did lunge at a little bit of flake, today he is not eating anything. This is perhaps the most disturbing aspect of his behavior, since I know that when fish stop eating it is usually the beginning of the end. His eyes look especially wide, as though he is shocked by something. I considered that it could be pH shock from suddenly changing 50% of the water, however my test kit says that the pH, alkalinity and hardness are the same as usual. Nitrates are about 15 ppm, nitrites are 0 ppm. I don't have a test for ammonia but I feel certain there is no ammonia in the tank...it's 5 years old.

When I did the 50% water change I also cleaned the Cascade 500 canister filter. I don't believe this is the problem, since I used lukewarm tap water which has no chlorine whatsoever (I am on a private well) and there is a Penguin 150 hang-on back filter with a bio-wheel which was not touched, to ensure that biological filtration would not be disturbed in any way.

Since I don't know what is wrong, I am hesitant to medicate. I have added Melafix, 1 tablespoon of it (I am skeptical about the efficacy of this medication in this case, but figured it was worth a try, it seemed to help LOTS with regrowing the fins) and also 4 teaspoons of Epsom salt, dissolved in warm water first. I added an Indian almond leaf for shade and for the supposedly therapeutic effects - I use this in my female betta tank. Needless to say with my alkalinity and hardness, one leaf has negligible effects on water chemistry. I also have an airstone bubbling. The tank has plenty of circulation already with a canister filter and spray bar, HOB filter, and powerhead a couple of inches below the surface of the water.

Is there anything else I can do? I feed a varied diet consisting of about 50% prepared dried foods (Tetra crisps, Omega One flakes, New Life Spectrum pellets) and 50% frozen (bloodworms and plankton) and homemade foods (European shrimp mix). Yesterday I visited a *gorgeous* new LFS in town, unfortunately, they only carried saltwater fish and supplies. I felt compelled to buy something from them since they were just starting up, so I bought Prime Reef flakes, by Ocean Nutrition. Everyone loves it so far, apparently it has lots of flavor! That is what the rainbowfish ate a little bit of yesterday, although today he ignored it completely.

I am so bummed...I have a feeling this rainbowfish is doomed. If anyone can offer any advice as to what this might be...I'd really appreciate it! I included a picture just in case it helps.

Thanks very much in advance,
Nicole

 

[WILDER]

When you did the 50% water change did you add declorinator as well water can still have heavy metals.

 

[platytudes]

When you did the 50% water change did you add declorinator as well water can still have heavy metals.

No, I didn't add dechlorinator. I don't add anything to this water, I just touch it to ensure it is about the same temperature as the tank. I figure the less things added to the water the better. This water has actually been the best for keeping fish in that I've ever had - it stays so consistent!

I suppose the metals are a possibility, I know this water is high in iron, but I can't imagine it would cause this sudden a reaction...and why only one fish?

Thank you for replying so fast! Any other thoughts, anyone?

 

[WILDER]

If the fish are off colour due to the water change I would add some declorinator to the tank that removes metals.

 

[WILDER]

Read this to see what you think.
Is the fish pale in colour.
What was the temp of the new water to the tank temp.
http/www.fishforums.net/content-page/198...nation/page/20/

 

[platytudes]

Read this to see what you think.
Is the fish pale in colour.
What was the temp of the new water to the tank temp.
[URL="http/www.fishforums.net/content-page/198...nation/page/20/"]http/www.fishforums.net/content-page/198...nation/page/20/[/URL]

Thanks! That was an interesting thread. I've been considering setting up a desktop tank with grass shrimp and I will definitely use dechlorinator just in case, since they're more sensitive. I'm not sure about the plumbing in the house but I am almost 100% sure it's original, built 1987.

For my other fish tanks (I have 4 freshwater tanks) I do not plan on using any dechlorinator. This is the first time I have had a problem after a water change. Out of new fish, I have lost three rummynose tetras in one tank, and one otocinclus in another tank, however these fish are so "touchy" and since the other new additions of their kind are doing fine a month later, I don't believe I have an issue related to heavy metals...just seems to me to be not that likely.

The affected rainbowfish isn't pale, his color actually looks fine. His color isn't very bright yet since he's just a juvie. The other rainbowfish is tearing around and eating like a pig. All of the other fish in the tank are enjoying the bubbles and acting hungry, happy and lively.

For that reason, I am hesitant to put in 50 drops of Prime (2 drops per gallon, I figure my tank is ~25 gallons)...it just doesn't seem to me like a wise thing to do.

I am not super fussy about the water temperature of the new water. I keep all my tanks at 77 degrees which seems to be just right for them. The new water is a tad warmer than the tanks' to the touch. I know some people use thermometers and test the new water's temp and chemistry before putting it in, etc., I just never feel the need to be so precise.

I honestly am wondering if this fish might not be constipated - come to think of it, I have not seen him poop, and the other rainbowfish is often seen with a healthy looking, brown or red solid poop trailing behind. He's a hungry fella! Does it sound like constipation to anyone else?

I would try the peas route, but since he isn't eating I doubt it would help, but I'll feed them some European Shrimp Mix tonight. The 4 teaspoons of Epsom salt ought to help somewhat if it is constipation. Maybe this is a female that is eggbound? Unlikely, I know, just thinking out loud...

In short, his color is normal, his appearance is basically normal. He just isn't eating, he is shimmying and hiding in the back of the tank, he is respiring noticeably with his mouth, and he is holding his body at a slight angle, with his head higher than his body.

Anyone else have any ideas? Thanks a ton.

 

[WILDER]

Red poo can be internal parasites like camallanous worms, have you been feeding bloodworms, or any red foods.
Temp shouldn't alter more than 2 degrees either way during a water change.

Look under shimmies but mainly livebeares.

http/www.fish-disease.net/diseases.htm

 

[platytudes]

Red poo can be internal parasites like camallanous worms, have you been feeding bloodworms, or any red foods.
Temp shouldn't alter more than 2 degrees either way during a water change.

Look under shimmies but mainly livebeares.

[URL="http/www.fish-disease.net/diseases.htm"]http/www.fish-disease.net/diseases.htm[/URL]

Thanks for the link, that's a helpful reference.

The poo is the color of the food I feed them. The other rainbowfish, who is younger, is the most vigorous eater in the tank so he seems to poo the most. Most of the foods I feed *are* red foods except for ~2x a week Omega One veggie flake and Ocean Nutrition cichlid veggie formula. I usually feed European Shrimp Mix but since I had been sick and unable to change water, I was not feeding this rich food except once a week, normally I feed this to them 3-4 times a week. It has peas, shrimp, spinach, Spirulina pellets and garlic extract...its the food that conditioned my cichlids to breed, and all the fish seem to like it as much as frozen foods.

As I understand it, the hallmark of Camallanus worms are the "paintbrush" like red protrusions from the anus. It can give the poo a red, stringy appearance from blood in the feces. Since healthy poop is usually described as solid and opaque, reflecting the color of what the fish are fed...everything seems OK in that department. The Prime Reef I fed them yesterday was dark red, I gave them bloodworms this morning, so they have had all red foods in the past 24 hrs.

If by late tomorrow the rainbowfish is still shimmying, I will put him in quarantine with Maracyn, although I am afraid that this will just stress him out further. Maracyn Two is supposed to treat lack of appetite...anyone ever medicated with Maracyn Two alone, without Maracyn?

 

[WILDER]

Ok that good new then its the red food.
Most members use both maracyn one and two to cover gram positive and gram negative bacteria.
Good luck.

 

[platytudes]

Hello there,

I just thought I would mention that the rainbowfish died this morning. I can't say I am really surprised. I don't know about anyone else, but I would MUCH rather deal with ich, popeye, finrot or fungus which at least has identifiable symptoms and cures. I guess "the devil you know"...

I hated doing it, but I sliced his stomach open and looked inside for worms. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary - although I have to say, I am no expert on what fish guts should look like.

Thanks to Wilder for all his attempts to help. I am just grateful everyone that else in the tank is looking fabulous, hopefully this saga won't repeat itself.

Take care, everyone
Nicole

 

[WILDER]

Bless him R.I.P.

 

[Colin_T]

Hi Nicole

sorry I didn't respond earlier but this is the first time I have seen this post.

The fish was poisoned by someting. It reacted in typical rainbowfish fashion when something like heavy metals or detergeants get into the water. The most common signs are heavy breathing, sitting on a slight angle with head up or down (usually up) and shimmying (swimming in the same spot and not going anywhere). Sometimes the fish develop black patches on parts of their body.
There might have been something in the bucket you used to do the water change or even something in the water. The 50% water change just added too much of whatever it was and the fish wasn't strong enough to deal with it.
As mentioned by Wilder a decent water conditioner will help to trap or bind up some heavy metals. You could try some and see if it helps.

Well water or bore water should be aerated for 24 hours before it is used in a tank. This allows the disolved gases to get back to normal and makes it safer for the fish.

When you clean your filters you should wash the filter media out in a bucket of water from the aquarium. If you wash it under tap water, or in water that is different to where it came from, you can wipe out the beneficial bacteria living in it. By only doing one filter at a time you shouldn't have any problems with water quality but it is still preferable to wash them in the same water they have been living in.

I believe the damaged fins would have been most likely caused by the cichlids nipping the rainbows, not the rainbows nipping each other. Rainbows do display and show off but they don't normally nip each others fins. Bigger rainbows might have held up better in the cichlid tank.

Rainbows are a schooling fish and like to be in groups. If possible you should add some more when you can. They don't have to be the same species, just other rainbows that grow to a similar size.

The picture at the bottom of your first post looks like a Melanotaenia splendida splendida or eastern rainbowfish. More info on rainbows can be found at the following links
angfa.org.au
http/members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Contents.htm

Rainbowfish need vegetable matter in their diet. It can be aquarium plants or just mixed veges you would eat. Try them on different things (pumpkin, zuchinni, peas, etc) and see what they eat. You can also feed them on goldfish pellets and vege flakes/pellets.

Sorry to hear about the fish dieing.

 

[platytudes]

Hi Nicole

sorry I didn't respond earlier but this is the first time I have seen this post.

The fish was poisoned by someting. It reacted in typical rainbowfish fashion when something like heavy metals or detergeants get into the water. The most common signs are heavy breathing, sitting on a slight angle with head up or down (usually up) and shimmying (swimming in the same spot and not going anywhere). Sometimes the fish develop black patches on parts of their body.
There might have been something in the bucket you used to do the water change or even something in the water. The 50% water change just added too much of whatever it was and the fish wasn't strong enough to deal with it.
As mentioned by Wilder a decent water conditioner will help to trap or bind up some heavy metals. You could try some and see if it helps.

Well water or bore water should be aerated for 24 hours before it is used in a tank. This allows the disolved gases to get back to normal and makes it safer for the fish.

When you clean your filters you should wash the filter media out in a bucket of water from the aquarium. If you wash it under tap water, or in water that is different to where it came from, you can wipe out the beneficial bacteria living in it. By only doing one filter at a time you shouldn't have any problems with water quality but it is still preferable to wash them in the same water they have been living in.

I believe the damaged fins would have been most likely caused by the cichlids nipping the rainbows, not the rainbows nipping each other. Rainbows do display and show off but they don't normally nip each others fins. Bigger rainbows might have held up better in the cichlid tank.

Rainbows are a schooling fish and like to be in groups. If possible you should add some more when you can. They don't have to be the same species, just other rainbows that grow to a similar size.

The picture at the bottom of your first post looks like a Melanotaenia splendida splendida or eastern rainbowfish. More info on rainbows can be found at the following links
angfa.org.au
[URL="http/members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Contents.htm"]http/members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Contents.htm[/URL]

Rainbowfish need vegetable matter in their diet. It can be aquarium plants or just mixed veges you would eat. Try them on different things (pumpkin, zuchinni, peas, etc) and see what they eat. You can also feed them on goldfish pellets and vege flakes/pellets.

Sorry to hear about the fish dieing.

Hi, Colin_T!

What a wonderful post. I guess majority wins...I will take that bottle of Prime out of the cabinet! I just moved 4 months ago, I did used to use dechlorinator when I was on city water. Any preference for Tetra AquaSafe or Seachem Prime? I bet they're both about the same.

The symptoms you list are uncanny. When he died this morning his fins were edged in black and looked a little frayed. I feel so bad that my actions killed this fish...I will definitely start using dechlorinator as a precaution. I didn't want to put all that Prime directly into the tank but I guess in retrospect, I should have, although he might have been too far gone by then.

I was starting to really get worried that Camallanus worms were in the tank because shortly after my last post, the other (and now only) rainbowfish had a big red poop again that seemed to hang there! Much to my relief last night's dinner was green and his poop is green again.

I am going to give this rainbowfish to my friend with a 75 gallon tank with rainbowfish and rosy barbs. I've tried to get him to do rainbowfish only, but he loves the colors of the rosies and they behave well. Now if I can only convince him to do live plants!

Do you know if rainbowfish are especially sensitive to heavy metals? I know certain fish can be. That website you linked to will probably say so, thank you SO much for the link! It's a wonderful reference that I was not familiar with, definitely putting that one in my favorites.

I wonder if also the nitrates didn't accumulate, I bet they were over 20 ppm before the water change and I know how much they dislike nitrate. Thankfully my well water doesn't have nitrate out of the tap, but I can never (except on my one low tech planted tank) get nitrates under 10 ppm, 15 ppm is usually the norm. I don't run carbon on a regular basis, so maybe that's part of it. Once in a while I will use Purigen or Chemi-Pure, however.

I never saw the cichlids nip the rainbows, but I did see the rainbowfish nipping each other! The two bigger ones picked on the smaller one, it used to hide behind a plastic plant and hardly ever came out of there. For some reason, they did not like the little rainbowfish! I noticed that this one (the original one that died, not the one this post is about) had some lumps inside of its body, almost like whitehead pimples under the skin. I never figured out what that was, but maybe they sensed this fish was sick and weak and decided to eliminate it? I figured they would behave better in a bigger school and planned on getting some more, but eventually ended up scrapping the idea of rainbowfish as dither fish for African cichlids.

I have to say, these rainbowfish were not from the greatest stock - I bought them from Pet Supermarket for $3 each. There used to be a mom and pop pet store and they carried lots of (better looking) rainbowfish for about $7 a pop. Too bad they closed down.

I bet the cichlids did pick on the rainbowfish sometimes, it probably happened at feeding time or at night when I couldn't really see it happening. I am not trying dither fish again with these guys - they are fine lurking in their caves, I've gotten used to it.

Thanks for the diet advice, I will try pumpkin sometime! I haven't tried that yet. A few offerings that have not gone over well with any of the fish are sweet potatoes and apples, but they do love melon. Cucumber and zucchini are all approved, peas are probably their favorite (it's the main ingredient in the homemade food I give them, based on the European Shrimp Mix recipe for cichlids) and they also really enjoy picking on curly lettuce. Canned corn and green beans get a few nibbles but aren't really beloved. Too bad I can't find many canned veggies without tons of sodium - corn, peas, and green beans are about all, no carrots without salt added.

I give all my fish all sorts of different flakes and pellets. Here's a sampling:
Tetra crisps and Tetra pro crisps
Hagen color enhancing flake
Hikari fancy guppy and Hikari micro wafers (for the little fish)
Omega One veggie flake and Omega One veggie rounds
Ocean Nutrition cichlid vegi formula and Ocean Nutrition prime reef flakes
New Life Spectrum 1 mm pellets
Tetra algae wafers, Tetra variety wafers, Tetra rich mix wafers

Again, my deepest thanks for your help, and most especially that awesome link.

Nicole

P.S. I had thought about Melanotaenia splendida, but when I saw this picture it threw me:
http/www.peteducation.com/images/article...ate_rainbow.jpg
If he really would have turned into such a beaut, it makes me feel even worse!

 

[Colin_T]

Hi Nicole

Rainbowfish are very sensitive to heavy metals. Where most other fish can tolerate them, rainbowfish will fall over very quickly. If you can make the water up the night before, add some Prime or whatever you have (they are pretty much the same as each other) and aerate the water overnight, you should be able to prevent this problem from ever recurring.

Camallanus worms do occur in rainbowfish, and all other fish. They are identified by tiny little worms that sometimes hang out the fish's bottom. When the fish is chased or disturbed the worms retract back inside the fish. The worms are thin, less than 1mm in thickness and usually only stick out a couple of mm. Sometimes you don't even see them at all. Infected fish will also lose weight over a period of time regardless of how well fed they are.

If your friend likes red fish (rosy barbs) perhaps show him a Glossolepis incisus (New Guinea red rainbow). They start off silver but the males go blood red all over when mature. The females stay silver or bronze.

If rainbowfish are in water with high nitrates (100ppm or more) or a really low PH (below 6.5) they become nervous and skittish. They panic and dash about the tank when anyone goes near the tank. 20-30ppm of nitrate isn't that high and is not going to upset them.

The fish that was picked on by the other two when kept with the cichlids, could have been a small male. Dominant male rainbowfish will bully smaller males and chase them around. That's one of the reasons you try to keep them in a group. Any aggression from dominant fish is spread out over all the individuals in the tank. They don't do any major damage to each other but the constant harassment can be a problem to smaller weaker fish.

Most people in Australia that keep rainbows use fresh or frozen veges to feed them. You simply defrost some and squish them up. Some people blanch them for a few seconds before use to soften them up. I used to grow duckweed outside in tubs and bring that in for the fish. It would float around the surface and the fish could eat it anytime they wanted.

You feed your fish a pretty varied diet. I might have to move over to your tank so I eat better

I sent you two links, unfortunately only one got a line under it. That was for Adrian Tappins rainbow site. The other link was for ANGFA which is an organisation that deals with Australian and New Guinea fishes (angfa.org.au). The angfa site has a bunch of links for different rainbow sites. They also do a small magazine with info on rainbows but you have to join them to get it.

The ornate rainbowfish link you have above shows a Melanotaenia splendida rubrostriata, which is from New Guinea (NG). The M. splendida group consists of 4 sub-species most of which are found in Australia. The M.s. rubrostriata is the only one found in NG.
Others in the group include:
M.s. inornata (checkered rainbow)
M.s. tatei (desert rainbow)
M.s. splendida (eastern rainbow)