Question

[smb7676]

Hi
My friend wants to setup a tank for her 3yr old and asked some question of me cuz she knows I'm setting up a reef tank next yr and am in the research stage.
Bet you can guess what she wants with a 3 yr old in the mix
in a 20 long
Drum roll
2 clown fish aka nemo ( I know eye roll)
1-2 cleaner shrimp
1 anmome
1 starfish

She wants to use a basic freshwater setup ie powerfilter (biowheel) and add marine salt. I told her she would at the least bump up the lighting and probally add an airstone.

I told her she maybe overstoked with the starfish I didn't know how to figure in into the stocking formula, maybe even the shrimp were to much but cuz they are cleaner crew I wasn't sure and told her to ask a LFS. But I told her she would never be able to add anymore fish!!
So today she calls and wants to know if she can add a "Dory tang thingy" well no but I told her I would find out how big she needed to go in order to add 1 "Dory" I know they are ich magnets and they get big need alot of algea but she asked so what do you think ? And while you are ans. is the 20 going to work for her ? I think with just the fish and host she is close to stock limit at least closer than I"d like to run it!

 

[parker313]

Nix the anemone for sure. Someone else could let you know about the starfish, but a lot of them get pretty big.

For water, she's going to want to use RO water with salt added to it - most tap water is pretty high in phosphates and will contribute to a big algae problem.

With a biowheel, that could lead to nitrate problems, so she'll have to clean off the wheel pretty regularly.

Or, she could nix the filter and airstones and just go with a powerhead.

I have 2 aqua-clear filters, but they're empty.

 

[smb7676]

Nix the anemone for sure.
With a biowheel, that could lead to nitrate problems, so she'll have to clean off the wheel pretty regularly.

Or, she could nix the filter and airstones and just go with a powerhead.

Ok really confused
1st what will the clown use for shelter ? I thought with out an anemone they would be stressed?
2nd How would a biowheel add to a nitrate problem? (the LFs said you could use one ) and if you clean it all the time wouldn't you loose your biological filter?

3rd if you nix the filter and go with a power head where is you chemical and mechanical ?(maybe I don't get the power head isn't it just to give current to the water ?)

4th what about the tank size?

 

[parker313]

1 - A clown doesn't need to host anything (shelter). In fact, a lot of the tank raised clownfish end up never hosting in anything, even when something is provided for them. Many people with nanos who want to give their clown something to host will put in a toadstool leather mushroom coral. They have the polyps that resemble anemone tentacles enough that some clowns love swimming in them. I had one of those corals and my clown couldn't have cared less. My clown spends most of his time doing headstands in the upper right corner of the tank Clowns are well, real clowns

2 - A biowheel will add to the nitrate problem b/c in a saltwater tank, they will get loaded with gunk faster than in a FW tank. Eventually, it will get gunked up so it can't hold any more bacteria or gunk and it will actually start releasing nitrates back into the tank. In a SW tank, and especially in a nano, your most effective form of filtration is your live rock. If you clean the biowheel, you don't lose your biological filter b/c the filtering is best done by the live rock.

3 - The LR has all of the bacteria needed to completely keep a tank cycled on its own. If you want some mechanical filtration, you can use a sponge type thing in a filter, just clean it out often so the nitrates can't build up in it.

4 - What about tank size?... What about it? A 20g is definitely ample size for 2 clowns and a cleaner shrimp

In a 20 gallon tank, she'll need at least 20 lbs of live rock - the standard stocking is 1-2 pounds of live rock per gallon.

Don't forget the cleanup crew - she'll want about 20 snails and/or hermit crabs - the standard here is about 1 per gallon

 

[abstract]

does your friend have fishkeeping experience? if not, she will most likely have a crying 3 year old some morning when the tank crashed and all the fish are dead...maybe if she doesn't know much about fish you can tell her all of the lovely freshwater species that exist out there and how much money, time, and work a saltwater (especially that small) will take?

also, where abouts in western ny are you?

 

[chkltcow]

2nd How would a biowheel add to a nitrate problem? (the LFs said you could use one ) and if you clean it all the time wouldn't you loose your biological filter?

3rd if you nix the filter and go with a power head where is you chemical and mechanical ?(maybe I don't get the power head isn't it just to give current to the water ?)

Parker is close with #2, from what I know. In SW, anoxic bacteria grows that will convert nitrates to nitrogen and just outgas it. Occasionally you'll see a little bubble float up from your sand, if you have a deep enough sand bed. That's why. With a BioWheel, all your nitrifying bacteria grows there, but there's no anoxic region. With Live Rock/Live Sand as your biological filter, all the nitrification/denitrification takes place right there. With my setup, I haven't seen Nitrates yet.

As for the chemical and mechanical filtration... your best bet would be to get a small Aquaclear filter to hang on the back. The extra current it provides even when it's running empty will be beneficial, plus you can toss in a thing of phosguard, purigen, carbon, etc whenever you need. Just run it without the filter foam.... just the little plastic frame, and toss in a bag of whatever chemical media you want. As for mechanical.... that's what the hermits and snails are for

 

[parker313]

Thanks for the correction/clarification/elaboration B)

 

[Chac]

Hi there

In a 20g tank you defo couldnt have a PBT (Powder Blue Tang) IMO Tangs shoulnt be kept in a sytem smaller than 70g

As the the Nem that is a defo NO, not good for beginners as they need pristine water conditions and a lot of experience, and the clown either wont miss it or simply wont know what one is.

Shrimps, Snails, Crabs, Stars add no Bio load on to a system so the only concideration you need to make is compatibility and size.

Del

 

[smb7676]

does your friend have fishkeeping experience? if not, she will most likely have a crying 3 year old some morning when the tank crashed and all the fish are dead...maybe if she doesn't know much about fish you can tell her all of the lovely freshwater species that exist out there and how much money, time, and work a saltwater (especially that small) will take?

also, where abouts in western ny are you?

No she had boyfriend that had a tank but that was years ago. She wants a nemo tank. I just read a post with someone doing the same thing, she was going to add table salt! For a sec I thought it might be her but she didn't want a puffer.lol Why don't people do the reaserch I mean its not like its a cheap hobby ugh.

I live near Buffalo! Do you ever get here? Ever checked out our awsome LFS The fish store. It really is a great store!!!

So If I have this right
20 is fine for 2 clown
shrimp, and small star are ok cuz they give little bio load.
Doesn't have to have a host if she doesn't want the hassle a good alt. is coral
add live rock.
fliter with out a bio wheel. ( can she just take the wheel out? and run the charcoal/spongepad in it I think she may already have the penquin)
And she would need at least a 70 gal to sustain the needs of the tang due to space and algea grazer.
**********Got it**************

 

[Navarre]

You have it almost right.
Liverock, its simply the best filter you can get. dispense withthe biowhheel, and pay the extra expense of liverock. Something has to be put in the tank for aquascaping, might was well be liverock, then it does 2 jobs at once.

 

[Chac]

Well Said Navarre



Just remember smb reasearch is the key to a beutiful system that will last your years

 

[abstract]

haven't been to any fish places in buffalo for awhile now! i'm sure i'll make it out that way this summer though.

 

[Great Lakes]

And she would need at least a 70 gal to sustain the needs of the tang due to space and algea grazer.

Not quite. A "Dory" requires a tank at least six feet in length. They are small and tempting as juvies, but grow very large.

Let us all keep in mind the secret society living among us reefers. They are known as either the Tang Police, and at times as the Tang Nazis. You don't want them pounding on the poor ladys door in the middle of the night...

I love seeing the Marine grow, yet I am afraid this is one of those situations where the person needs discouraged. thus heading disaster off at the pass.

Simply tell her that it will easily cost her 400-500 dollars to just have a nice Nemo tank. If she blanches at that, you know she is heading for trouble.

GL

 

[smb7676]

I love seeing the Marine grow, yet I am afraid this is one of those situations where the person needs discouraged. thus heading disaster off at the pass.

Simply tell her that it will easily cost her 400-500 dollars to just have a nice Nemo tank. If she blanches at that, you know she is heading for trouble.

GL

I don't think she is going to pass so hopefully MY research will help her not make any huge mistakes but in SW even little ones are huge so who knows ??? I guess the filter thing is a hurdle for my coming from FW. To me its Tank = Filter hanging on back no exception !!!!

 

[smb7676]

haven't been to any fish places in buffalo for awhile now! i'm sure i'll make it out that way this summer though.

If you make it here you should check it out its in Tonawanda. They put ads in some of the aquatic mag, and I think they have a thread in the NY section. At fist I thought they were lacking in Customer service but soon found out that they just are a bit annoyed ans the " can I put a school of Tetras in with my Oscar" type questions. But they are great and have a really good store and some of the best tanks I've seen SW or FW around in a while