Python Hose

[Ch4rlie]

Hmm, I kinda knew Byron would go this route

 
No bad thing at all, we have to bear in mind that not everyone is a fan of any brands of dechlorinators.
 
However, imho I always thought that there are more benefits to fish in our tanks when using these dechlorinator than without. I have been told many times over the years that dechlorination is an essential element for anyone using tapwater to keep their livestock and any claims that it is not needed only serve to show that in some case it may not be essential, such as those who have good water or use well or natutral spring water.
 
One other thing I need to keep reminding myself why that I'd rather use dechlorinator than not is that once fracking become more and more widespread which is undeniably detrimental to our natural waterways is only going to add more harmful subtances in our water supply. I'd rather be safe than sorry.
 
I have, for the last two years at least, used Seachem Prime dechlorinator whenever I do water changes, and being careful of dosages, have not come across any issues at all.
 
Most brands of dechlorinator that are available to combat chlorine and other potential harmful metals and toxins in our water supplies are cheap to buy and go a long way, and I have found that there is little excuse for not using one, unless one knows exactly what is in their water.

 

[Byron]

Hmm, I kinda knew Byron would go this route

 
No bad thing at all, we have to bear in mind that not everyone is a fan of any brands of dechlorinators.
 
However, imho I always thought that there are more benefits to fish in our tanks when using these dechlorinator than without. I have been told many times over the years that dechlorination is an essential element for anyone using tapwater to keep their livestock and any claims that it is not needed only serve to show that in some case it may not be essential, such as those who have good water or use well or natutral spring water.
 
One other thing I need to keep reminding myself why that I'd rather use dechlorinator than not is that once fracking become more and more widespread which is undeniably detrimental to our natural waterways is only going to add more harmful subtances in our water supply. I'd rather be safe than sorry.
 
I have, for the last two years at least, used Seachem Prime dechlorinator whenever I do water changes, and being careful of dosages, have not come across any issues at all.
 
Most brands of dechlorinator that are available to combat chlorine and other potential harmful metals and toxins in our water supplies are cheap to buy and go a long way, and I have found that there is little excuse for not using one, unless one knows exactly what is in their water.

 
I won't disagree with most if not all of this, Ch4rlie.  But the point I was making earlier is to keep these substances to a minimum, i.e., only what is needed.  No one who advocates overdosing conditioners can provide evidence why this is necessary, simply because there is none; Seachem and other manufacturers may "advise" us to use more than necessary, and even "claim" that up to five times the necessary amount is not harmful, but they are after all in business to make a profit and if they can convince aquarists to use double or triple what is necessary, all well and good.  And I will acknowledge that some of these companies may care about the health of our fish, but there is much they tend to ignore.
 
Prime is not always the best conditioner to be using.  If you have nitrite or nitrate in your source water, then it is worth using, as it detoxifies these initially, giving the bacteria time to "catch up."  But otherwise, I would not recommend this product, except in new tanks for the cycling period (if fish are present).  First, Prime messes with nitrite and nitrate in ways that Seachem cannot explain because, as they said to my direct question, they don't know how it works.  Second, it is adding chemical substances that fish don't need (other than in the "emergency" situations).  Think of it as swallowing every medicine you can lay your hands on when you get sick, instead of selecting the one that does the job needed and then not overdosing.  Third the TDS is I believe high; Seachem could not answer my question on TDS, but on another forum another member looked into it and thanked me for alerting her.
 
We are so quick these days to add various substances thinking that somehow the fish will be better and healthier, when the opposite is the truth.  If one just used all the products Seachem manufacture and produce, following their "guidelines," the poor fish would be living in a chemical soup.  All these things can interact, producing a quite dangerous environment.  Over the past year-plus, I have been dealing with a situation in one tank, and as part of the procedure, on the recommendation of a microbiologist, a biologist, and an ichthyologist, I took a hard look at just the Flourish plant additives, and found to my surprise they were contributing to the problem that was affecting the fish's health.
 
Byron.

 

[AbbeysDad]

I'm in Byron's camp on this. I planted my 60g about 3 months ago and began frequenting a planted tank site. I was a little surprised about high tech tanks with bright lights, high levels of ferts and CO2. And the EI method of [basically] overdosing chemical fertilizers to ensure plants have all the nutrients they need. Maybe that's okay for plants, but what about the [poor] fish living in this chemical soup?!?! And at the end of the day, isn't it a fish tank? Surely this isn't anything like their environment in nature?!
Everything in the water gets into the fish through osmosis. Any/all chemical additions need serious thought.
When I raised concerns on that other site, suggesting a more organic approach, I was told that maybe I shouldn't have a planted tank!  I was thinking maybe he/or they shouldn't have fish!
We can't be truly organic. We need conditioner if we have chlorine/chloramine in source water. I need resin to filter nitrates from my well water. We need some ferts if we have planted tanks, etc. HOWEVER, we need to apply chemicals wisely to serve the best interests of the fish...which translates into minimum usage of unnatural chemicals. 

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Cowgirluntamed, if you have plants in the tank I would try not using the conditioner.  Heavy metals are plant nutrients, and unless the well water has levels of one or more of these that might harm fish, I wouldn't waste it.  The other thing is that the detoxifying of heavy metals is not all that significant; it is intended for municipal water where laws govern the level of heavy metals allowed in water.
 
Byron.

Before I came to this site I never did use a water conditioner. For a while after I never did either. The fish seemed fine to me this way, but also I didn't have live plants either. Now I have some. The 20 gallon is growing more algae than plants, but that is a work in progress to balance things out. Thoug,h the plants haven't really grown much because of this algae.

I have 2 ten gallons, one has one anubias nangi, one anubias coffefolia, and one anubias nana(this one isn't doing well anymore). It has one male guppy and two nerite snails, gravel substrate. The other one has no live plants(weak lighting didn't work) and it has 2 baby bristlenose pleco and a sponge filter that is supposed to handle up to 30 gallons.

I have a 5 gallon that currently is plants only(I may be needing to break it down and put new sand, depends on the answer to my medication question that I just posted. For a while it will be used to grow plants. It may or may not have nerite snails(eventually, but maybe not currently since mine are sick and in a different container).

So...if it isn't planted, should I still use the conditioner? Or just use my plain old well water?

Also, one more question that pooped into my head. When do you add the conditioner when you refill the tank with the Python? Is it while its filling up or after? And do you add the entire amount you are dosing with or do it a bit at a time? Ok...so that was more than one question lol.

 

[Byron]

 

Cowgirluntamed, if you have plants in the tank I would try not using the conditioner.  Heavy metals are plant nutrients, and unless the well water has levels of one or more of these that might harm fish, I wouldn't waste it.  The other thing is that the detoxifying of heavy metals is not all that significant; it is intended for municipal water where laws govern the level of heavy metals allowed in water.
 
Byron.

Before I came to this site I never did use a water conditioner. For a while after I never did either. The fish seemed fine to me this way, but also I didn't have live plants either. Now I have some. The 20 gallon is growing more algae than plants, but that is a work in progress to balance things out. Thoug,h the plants haven't really grown much because of this algae.

I have 2 ten gallons, one has one anubias nangi, one anubias coffefolia, and one anubias nana(this one isn't doing well anymore). It has one male guppy and two nerite snails, gravel substrate. The other one has no live plants(weak lighting didn't work) and it has 2 baby bristlenose pleco and a sponge filter that is supposed to handle up to 30 gallons.

I have a 5 gallon that currently is plants only(I may be needing to break it down and put new sand, depends on the answer to my medication question that I just posted. For a while it will be used to grow plants. It may or may not have nerite snails(eventually, but maybe not currently since mine are sick and in a different container).

So...if it isn't planted, should I still use the conditioner? Or just use my plain old well water?

Also, one more question that pooped into my head. When do you add the conditioner when you refill the tank with the Python? Is it while its filling up or after? And do you add the entire amount you are dosing with or do it a bit at a time? Ok...so that was more than one question lol.
 

 
It would be useful for you to know exactly what is in the well water.  If you have had it professionally tested and know the level of minerals, if any, is minimal, there should be no harm.  The issue of course is the level of minerals, as they can be dangerous to fish.  If it is safe to drink the water, this could indicate no issues, but safe levels for humans of some minerals like copper can be higher than what fish can tolerate.
 
On the conditioner, it goes in when you start refilling.  I get the temp (using my hand) at the tap where I want it, which in all but one tank will be just a tad cooler than the tank water, then start the filling, and go back to the fish room and add the water conditioner (the amount for the replacement water at once) next to the Python.  The tanks in which one uses a Python will be large enough that this is no risk.  For my 10g I use a pail, as with the Python it is very easy to overflow.  I also have pygmy corys spawning in this tank, and the fry which are so tiny I cannot even see them on the sand will easily get sucked up, so I use a hand (manual) water changing hose for this tank and I can see during the process and check the pail before dumping the water.
 
Byron.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

It would be useful for you to know exactly what is in the well water.  If you have had it professionally tested and know the level of minerals, if any, is minimal, there should be no harm.  The issue of course is the level of minerals, as they can be dangerous to fish.  If it is safe to drink the water, this could indicate no issues, but safe levels for humans of some minerals like copper can be higher than what fish can tolerate.
 
On the conditioner, it goes in when you start refilling.  I get the temp (using my hand) at the tap where I want it, which in all but one tank will be just a tad cooler than the tank water, then start the filling, and go back to the fish room and add the water conditioner (the amount for the replacement water at once) next to the Python.  The tanks in which one uses a Python will be large enough that this is no risk.  For my 10g I use a pail, as with the Python it is very easy to overflow.  I also have pygmy corys spawning in this tank, and the fry which are so tiny I cannot even see them on the sand will easily get sucked up, so I use a hand (manual) water changing hose for this tank and I can see during the process and check the pail before dumping the water.
 
Byron.

I don't think it's ever been professionally tested to that extent. And I don't really have the money to do that unfortunately. It is very safe to drink. I've drank it my entire life! Lol. Really great tasting water for me. My mom and dad have probably been drinking it longer as well. We've never had any issues ourselves with it whatsoever. So...that being said...would you recommend adding conditioner or no?

I thought that's when you would add the conditioner. Thanks for the clarification!


One tiny question if anybody has an answer...seeing as how I accidentally poisoned my nerite snails with wormer meds...i don't know if they will recover. (They are mostly staying as far out of their shells as they can get.) Does anybody have any recommendations on how to euthanize them if I go that route? I hate to see them suffering or starving to death because they are permanently injured. I really don't have hopes of recovery but may give them a few more days to see.

 

[Byron]

I don't think it's ever been professionally tested to that extent. And I don't really have the money to do that unfortunately. It is very safe to drink. I've drank it my entire life! Lol. Really great tasting water for me. My mom and dad have probably been drinking it longer as well. We've never had any issues ourselves with it whatsoever. So...that being said...would you recommend adding conditioner or no?
 

 
I guess most of us have chlorinated water so we are forced into using conditioner.  Obviously our fish manage with it.  So it is safer than not.  I'm not sure what I would do personally...I have come to realise that additives can have consequences no matter what they are so I am always looking for ways to reduce them for the sake of the fish.  I'd love to use pure rainwater, except that water changes would be next to impossible with all my tanks.

 

[Ch4rlie]

I guess most of us have chlorinated water so we are forced into using conditioner.  Obviously our fish manage with it.  So it is safer than not.  I'm not sure what I would do personally...I have come to realise that additives can have consequences no matter what they are so I am always looking for ways to reduce them for the sake of the fish.  I'd love to use pure rainwater, except that water changes would be next to impossible with all my tanks.

 
This could have not been put better.
 
A statement I wholeheartedly agree with.