Puffers

[fry_lover]

hello, just joined the forum tonight, this is my 2nd post, the first one is a little relevant to this and explains some of my goals if you would be so kind to look.........

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=161058

right, PUFFERS

tank is 48x15x18

hearing conflicting reports about Tetradon Nigroviridis (Green Spotted), most sites say its a full-on or "high end" brackish fish, but one specific Puffer Site (Puffer Tripodz??) says this type of Puffer is freshwater that basically tolerates salt and can be happier in salt but it kind of suggests LOWER levels of salt

Also interested in Tetradon Fluviatilis (Ceylon, Topaz Puffer) - partly because i am in London and my pH is about 7.8 with hard water. This puts me off South American Puffers, as i aim to try and replicate the natural water parameters as much as possible. There seems no doubt this is a brackish fish that requires proper brackish water to flourish

so........ is there any difference between Nigroviridis and Fluviatilis in terms of ideal salinity levels and can someone please suggest the appropriate levels, i.e. 1.005??? higher?

please dont shoot me down here i am in the early stages of my research, BUT

could i (in theory and good practice) keep ROPE FISH and one or two of the above PUFFERS in the same set-up. I have read the rope fish are sometimes found naturally in brackish waters?? perhaps i could run with a salinity of 1.003 or something or is this far too low for the Puffers mentioned?

If i have to choose between one type of fish and the other and i go with one of the above PUFFERS, what TYPE of Puffer do you recommend of the two (or do you recommend a different type of puffer?) - please read my list of GOALS on the above mentioned thread if you have time!!!!!

If i go with one or more Puffer fish as my base, what could i safely mix with them in line with my preferences and goals (basically carnviorous fish that are atleast 5-6" in length)

My only possible exception to my own preferences would be bumble-bee gobies, but i really do want to get away form small fish for this new set-up. I have read one article tonight that suggests bumblebee gobies in a spacious tank would be fine with a variety of puffer's although i also understand that Puffer's temperaments and personality can vary wildly

thanks for reading

 

[Fella]

green spotted puffers, and ceylon puffers are said to eventually require at least high end brackish as they grow, and that would mean you could not keep them with a ropefish.

 

[Dave Legacy]

My 3" GSP is in 1.020SG, has been for quite some time now, and doing great! Keeping a GSP in full marine is kind of neat because you can use Protien Skimmers, Live Rock, and my recent project... Macro Algae. Ideally I think my salinity should be a little lower until she gets a couple inches larger.

 

[nmonks]

As others have said, ropefish and GSPs are incompatible.

Ropefish are really freshwater fish with a slight tolerance for brackish water. They will live in waters with anything up to around 10% the salinity of seawater. Such places are low-end brackish environments and populated by things like cichlids, catfish, carp, killifish, and various other salt-tolerant freshwater fish.

GSPs are what are called "euryhaline fish" meaning they can adapt to salinity between freshwater and fully marine conditions. In reality, while they can be kept in freshwater permanently, they do not do as well as in brackish or marine conditions. By "better" we mean they are more resistant to disease, grow larger and faster, and live longer.

It is very debatable whether GSPs need marine conditions, but in practical terms, keeping them thus seems to work well. As Dave Legacy mentioned, because you can use protein skimmers and living rock, maintaining good water quality is relatively easy compared with trying to do the same thing at SG 1.010 (which is probably as high a salinity as these fish actually need in terms of simply being healthy).

A figure-8 puffer might be an option, but to be honest, your best bet would be to keep ropefish in a group (they love company and become far less shy) and then add some more peaceful, freshwater pufferfish species. I'd suggest South American puffers, which seem to ignore fish that hide away in the rocks if my experiences with catfish are anything to go by. Red-tail puffers might be an alternative, but I fear dwarf puffers would simply be eaten. Though it isn't offered for sale much (if at all), Tetraodon schoutedeni would be the perfect puffer for your tank, being African, peaceful, and about the right size. Otherwise, there are some superb African oddballs to consider instead of puffers. African butterflyfish are just lovely, but there are also various knifefish, elephantnoses, and climbing perch to consider, too. Ropefish will get along with pretty much anything that leaves them alone.

Cheers,

Neale

 

[fry_lover]

thanks for the fast repsonse guys, yes i think i need to rule out GSP and Ceylon unless i rule out the rope fish, but i will choose the rope fish to focus on

Neale i also thought about Dwarf / Pigmy puffers, my concern was the other way round, as although they only are 1" i keep reading how vicious they can be, although do you think its basically that the rope fish might eat them? Either way doesnt seem woth the gamble does it?

That leaves South American Puffer and Schoutedeni (which does sound ideal) i will have to check its availability like you said. Also i think i would need to make sure i get the correct fish as i read that Schoutedeni can be confused with GSP and Ceylon.

My concern with the South American Puffer was water parameters. Most sites really advise a more neutral pH and mine is 7.8 and hard. What do you think? Not too much of an issue for the South American Puffer?

Like the sound of African Butterfly fish especially their dietary requirements, but again always get a little concerned when i see about pH 6.5 to 7.0 and preferring softer water?

Is this is an issue do you think?

I would very much like to get some additional suggestions for odd-balls in the size range you have already mentioned Neale, especially carnivores who prefer live foods

All advice very much appreciated. Thanks

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=160995

this has really got me thinking now, but i fear i would have to give up my dream of Rope Fish??





what about this combination in a saline strenth of 1.003

ROPE FISH
FIGURE 8 PUFFERS
BUMBLEBEE GOBY

question being

- is it fair on the Rope fish
- is it enough salt for figure 8 puffer

- pretty good salt level for Bumblebee Goby i imagine?

 

[SLC Flyfishing]

I could be wrong but I imagine that the bumble bee's would be eaten as they are about the same size as the dwarf puffers and no where near as able to fend off attacks.

SLC

 

[Fella]

Tetraodon Schoutedini is unavailable as they're wild collected from the congo, and since the civil unrest no importer has been able to get near to them.

 

[nmonks]

I agree with SLC -- I wouldn't risk BBGs with ropefish. As far as companions go, you need to remember a ropefish will get to at least 60 cm in an aquarium possibly more, and so you need tankmates at least platy or tiger barb sized if you want them to be safe. Ropefish aren't particularly predatory (their preferred food are worms and insect larvae) but they aren't going to turn down a nice, sleepy fish if they bumped into one on a nighttime soujourn.

Personally, forget about brackish, and keep the ropefish (a trio, I hope, at least) with butterflies, Congo barbs, Nannaethiops unitaeniatus, African red-eye tetras, maybe even dwarf Distichodus if you aren't keeping plants. South American puffers do nip fins, and can only be kept with fast-moving tetras, though I suspect even Congo tetras would be nipped because of their long fins. Ropefish would likely be good companions for a dwarf bichir like Polypterus palmas polli. This is a completely peaceful (if predatory) species at about 30 cm when mature that gets along well with anything too big to be eaten (i.e., nothing smaller than a tiger barb).

Red-tail puffers would probably be ignored by a ropefish but I fear dwarf puffers would just be eaten. However nippy they are in the daytime, at night puffers are very vulnerable to predators.

South American puffers are very tolerant of water chemistry. They will be fine at pH 7.8. Seriously, with puffers the issue is much more water QUALITY than water chemistry. Yes, butterflies prefer soft/acid but provided they were otherwise well looked after I wouldn't be too concerned. If you want, add some peat to the filter. If you want soft water, consider getting a rain butt and collecting your own (what I do).

Cheers,

Neale

 

[clown knife]

I still think that you should stick to the archers, mono's, scats, and green spotted puffers

 

[fry_lover]

hello mate (clown knife) - welcome to the forum

i know what you mean about those fish, but i am looking for something even more different now to even those fish you mentioned, leaning toward Rope Fish, Small Bichir and African Butterfly fish

TO ALL THAT HAVE HELPED ON THIS THREAD - THANKS, I AM MOVING IT OVER TO MY ODD-BALL THREAD NOW AND WOULD LIKE YOU TO CONTINUE TO HELP ME, cheers