Problems With The Reef Tank...

[cuticom]

Okay so I've been battling algae for a while in the tank, I haven't been overly worried about it as I knew what was causing it. I ahve three sun corals I'm trying to bring back to health so the tanks being fed more then it should be, leading to an outbreak of algae. My problem is that this morning when i checked the tank I noticed two things, one a new algae was growing over the other algae that was light brown, and looked like snot and has these random long strands sticking out here and there. I'm not sure if its dinoflagelates, most of the algae I have has gas bubbles the cyano did as well, so dunno about that, but what is worrying me is that I also found three dead shrimpy things floating around on the sand bed. No idea what they are but they were about half an inch long with very distinct stripes running across their backs. Could this new algae have contributed to the deaths of the shrimps? the snails I have seem find though the biggest turbo seems pretty sluggish...

My Torch coral isn't extending as far as it normally does either but that could just be because I accidental broke a few of the tentacles/polyps when cleaning the glass a few days ago, it's still feeding though.

I've been reading about dino and suggested cures seem to be carbon, elevated ph and elevated magnesium levels... The stuff is only where it gets good light around the base of the corals and in the caves there's none, so maybe blacking the tank out somehow for a day or two would work? but wouldn't that harm the corals?

Bit of help please?

Thanks
Emma

 

[UBigBobby]

I'm not an aglae expert so I cannot comment on the type. However I can hopefully help with the rest. First off, do you have any shrimp that you know of? If you do, the "dead" shrimp you saw could have just been their sheeded exoskeleton, which is normal (my coral banded shrimp just did it last night!!). If you DON'T have shrimp that you know if...then we need to figure that out....

As for blacking out the tank. That's not healthy for the coral. Will it kill the coral to black out for a day? No. Will it stop/kill the algae? MAYBE. However light likely isn't what is CAUSING the algae. Unless you address the cause of it, the algae will come back when the lights come back, and all you will have done is pissed off your corals. The cause of the algae can be alot of things, however it usually elevated levels of some chemical. What chemical usually depends on the algae, and since I don't know the algae....I can't really help there. I'm sure someone else can.

However I can tell you that keeping the lights off for a day MAY be a short term fix, but it won't rid you of the algae. You need to find the REAL root of the problem and start there.

 

[cuticom]

Nope the only critters in the tank apart from a hitch-hiker crab are corals. These were definitely dead shrimps not exos, but they weren't big like half an inch long max.

This pic isn't mine but this is what it is, only mine isn't so bad at the moment, actually change that nowhere near as bad, but I've got the brown strings and snotty algae.
http/i93.photobucket.com/albums/l43/dere...terafewdays.jpg

So I've blacked out the tank and will leave it for a day and then run a reduced photo period of 4 hours as I may as well take advantage and destroy all the algae in one go. I'm also going to switch the 10K I have to a 14K bulb which should help. Will also get the Mg test kit I've been meaning to get for a while and elevate Mg levels, add in carbon and move the sun corals somewhere else for a while so I don't need to feed the tank. I'm certain I ahve high phosphate levels but there's not much I can do about that I can't afford rowpahos (it costs an arm and a leg over here) I'm using an aqua one phospad at the moment and changing it regularly but that's about all I can do.

 

[dilbert]

First to those shrimps. They are pretty hardy and tolerate almost everything. What could kill them is a salinity out of range or extreme figures of ph. The algae normally tolerate extreme salinity and ph figures, the crab, if it is one from rockpools, too.
The salinity is difficult to measure properly and clownfish for example tolerate an SG between 1.017 and 1.030, so there are many things that can mislead you.

If you say you don't have money for a phosphate remover you won't have money for a proper phosphate test. Many of the cheap tell you "undetectable" where the interesting range starts.

Without a proper phosphate test it makes no sense to start thinking about finer grained measures. The reason for those algae is much nutrients. Especially, dissolved organic matter. What you want is particular organic matter. That is when on a reef is nutrients-poor water but one animal eats another. Then other animals pick up the tiny leftover bits floating around and the corals and filter feeders are getting the smallest particles.

But in a tank builds up a soup of dissolved organic matter from rotting food or poo from fish and corals, too. This dissolved matter lets grow algae (and a few filter feeders who could live on the more coarse particular, too).

In your case where you say you have only corals, I don't understand where all those excessive dissolved matter comes from. I can only guess that you don't have enough live rock and water movement or that you add too much food to the corals. Or the tank is absolutely tiny and the corals are almost touching each other?

Anyhow, somehow the food that enters the tank seems to be more than the filters (mechanical, live rock, or skimmer) can handle. In that case you can only rely on frequent water changes. If the salinity or the ph are completely wrong, that aggrevates the problem, so I would check that first.

 

[cuticom]

Although theres no fish there is four sun corals and as careful as i am with food a lot still floats around. I do have phosphate there's no way I can avoid that and i've never seen the point in getting a test just to prove I have phosphate. iIdon't use RO, being a teenager the parents don't quite agree with me rearranging the plumbing. I generally just live and let live and let algae grow and absorb the phosphate so it doesn't harm the corals, I also grow macroalgae and use phosphate removers to keep it down. Its just this new algae worries me as I have read that this particular type can and will grow on corals. The only things chemistry wise that have changed is I'm using a new bag of salt, though same brand as I always use and I've strated using additives to bring alk and calcium up, the additives being seachem calcium, seachem carbonate and baking soda.

Salinity and pH are fine and I've just had the hydrometers checked against the LFS refractometers and there fine, salinity is 1.026 as always. pH runs slightly high at 8.4-8.5 but it always has and it drops down to about 8.2 at night.

I've moved the less healthy sun corals to another tank so I can keep up their feeding regime and i do plan to stop feeding the tank so much, normally I don't but these sun corals are new and generally need a very heavy feeding regime to get them opening properly, I've just never tried it in a nano before, its not an experiment I plan to repeat either for that matter.

 

[dilbert]

Well, sounds that feeding is the only problem. A ph 0f 8.5 isn't regarded as dangerous as some of those reefkeeping author guru did mention. So, even if your measurements are a bit astray and it would be 8.6 actually, that would be still fine.

Can't you feed more on the spot as you say that "food is still floating around". That sounds not very encouraging.

Generally, you can always harvest the nuissance algae and remove nutrients including phosphates that way. It's only quite tedious.

Also, watch out that there doesn't build up a fine almost invisible slime out of bacteria and organic matter on the corals. Means you have to go around with a turkey baster and keep the corals always clean as if there is too much of organic matter in the water column it builds up on the corals even if they would be in high water flow.

Just to compare, my pico is 12 liters and has two frags of Candy Cane (Caulastrea) with each of 3 1/2 polyps. I feed them every second day, sometimes more and sometimes less. Then there is only a hermit crab and a bunch of hitchhikers like a tiny crab, tubeworms, a plethora of iso- and amphipod because of the Chaetomorpha ball, and a strange nightly anemone.

This tank is absolutely fine with 20% water changes a week. REd slime in that pico (deliberately introduced with the Chaetomorpha ball, it was an experiment) went away on its own and there are no algae at all in that tank, so I feed the hermit once a week.

There is only a small slimy patina building up on the glass and the amphipods are feeding on that. I clean only the front glass with a magnetic algae scraper once a week. It's months ago that I used the extra narrow algae scraper I bought once for that pico. Even the Chaetomorpha ball doesn't grow in that tank.

In contrary, my nano has red slime, all sorts of nuissance algae, Chaetomorpha grows like wild. In comparison to the pico, it's a mess. It's a sewage tank.

Only difference is stocking and feeding regime. Maybe that gives you an idea what you could do.

 

[cuticom]

Food is floating around at the mo because its so far the only way I can get the goni to eat, it won't eat if i feed it directly, its rather irritating. Feeding will cut down I always planned to cut back to just feeding every other day its just the new sun corals need a lot more feeding then most, plus I have a goni and an unhappy frogspawn, LFS owners keep giving me freebies. I do skim extremely heavily though, and its also why I don't bother to destroy the algae that grows, its just snot is a bit to much and definitely doesn't add to the aesthetics of the tank, mainly i grow halimeda, bropsis (it is possible to grow without letting it take over your tank) and some other macro that I never managed to identify, I want to get some chaetomorpha to whenever I mange to find some. Will also run a bettr phosphate remover as well to see if that helps, no point using a nitrate remover between the skimmer and the algae nitrate is always below 5.

Oh and the reason I can't afford rowaphos is its nearly $100 here which could be put to a much better use then something that really is totally overpriced at the moment, can easily afford a decent phosphate test kit LOL.

Lol yup I harvest the algae, I grow a lot of macro as well, which is easily harvested grows a good two cm every day as well.

Okay so I'll turn the lights back on tomorrow and run a reduced photoperiod, stop feeding for a week or so, though it'll mean I'll have to take the last sun coral from the tank as well and see how that goes. I'll also run carbon and a phosphate remover as well and siphon off the snot. Hopefully that should get rid of it and I can begin increasing the photo period again and the 14k light should help as well.

 

[dilbert]

I would be careful with reducing the photoperiod as the only animals that count in that tank live from photosynthetic zooxanthellae, too.

Surely algae grow on light, too. But to cut them back you can't rely on lighting only.

I'm not 100% sure if it's on a reef 0.03 ppm phosphates, too, but that's the figure it's been said that nuissance algae would starve. But to measure such a figure you need at least a proper phosphate test kit. Even the Salifert test kit isn't good at 0.03 pm or around. I bought a D-Deltec test kit that cost in the UK four times the price of a Salifert test kit (now I have it even for £ 26.99 in an online shop).

But you see that my pico has 4 four times the suggested phosphates figure and I measured with a Salifert "Dissolved organics" test that DO is 10 times as it should be in my pico, and 15x in the nano. But algae don't grow either. I couldn't figure out why but better it works and you don't know why than the other way round.

I don't know what restrictions you got as you mentioned plumbing but another measure would be another tank. That's surely expensive and needs not only space but also more attention and time, testing water and the like.

Or, could you take out a coral and put it in a small tank or even a bucket without anything just water maybe from a water change and add there as much food as it wants to let it soak up the needed food there and then putiing it back. I have absolutely no clues about gonioporas but that way you could keep cleaner the water of the main tank.

 

[SkiFletch]

Ok that algae is Cyanobacteria. There are many strains and color morphs but it definitely sounds like thats what you have. You can black out the tank for 48 hours (with a blanket over it no lights) and it will kill the cyano temporarily but there's no telling if it'll come back or not. Nutrients are unfortunately the problem. Try looking into some Nassarius snails to eat the uneaten food. They find particles the sun corals will miss and will gobble them up. And unlike shrimp, nassarius snails will not try and steal food directly from the sun corals mouth.

 

[cuticom]

Still looking for nassarius snails, have been looking for like five months, I'm determined to find some one day, normally I use zebra top snails but this tank doesn't ahve enough at the moment, am getting more on Wednesday. I don't think its cyano, the tanks had cyano already and it definitely didn't ahve random strings all over it.

Another tanks not an option my parents just made me sell my big reef tank, it was a fight just to be allowed to keep the nano.

The sun corals are generally taken out of the tank to be fed, except for the biggest one as it regurgitates food if I move it after being fed. The goni can't be taken out it takes a good four hours just to make it reopen if its disturbed. But I will definitely cut back on food and hopefully that will help a bit.

 

[cuticom]

I just went and turned the lights back on in the tank and theres some worrying things. Firstly their are shrimps and pods everywhere, not sure if it was just because it was dark or not, most were alive but there was also more dead shrimps floating around.

Secondly the brown strings are spreading their all through the actual water and there's quite a bit on my Duncan coral and some on my sun coral as well. The Skimmer also seems to have gone mad overnight and was completely full of skimmate when I checked it this morning even though it usually takes a few days to fill. There's not much actually on the rock most is free floating which is weird

So any suggestions? Or just keep doing what I'm doing?

 

[cuticom]

So the shrimp things are large amphipods. Just wondering I've had an absolute explosion in my pod population, at night they literally coat the glass, so could the dead amphipods just be because theres now too many pods in the tank? and not have anything to do with toxic release from dinoflagellates?

I'm almost certain its dino starting as I've been doing reading and all the sites state that they dissolve into dust when blasted as opposed to the sheet consistency of cyano and its definitely like that, and it keeps floating off in strands as well....

Interestingly though the short blackout I did killed virtually all the other algae in the tank apart from the macro.

The corals don't seem to be too effected the goni isn't fully expanded though its open and everything but not completely expanding its tentacles, butI'm getting more extension in the frogspawn then I've seen before and the sun corals open all the way as well.

The little brown strings all over the tank are definitely multiplying though. I think I'll try elevating magnesium levels, using carbon and phosphate remover and not feeding but if that doesn't work I think I'll remove the corals to a separate storage tub without the live rock and give the LR a good 2-3 weeks in total darkness.

 

[cuticom]

More dead amphipods tonight, though i did actually see some live ones as well. There must be something really nice in the tank... the Torch coral has dropped all its tentacles down like it does every night but its mouths are wide open as well which is unusual, the frog spawn is also extending way more then it usually does and the sun corals are fully extended. Could this just be some sort of amphipod population crash?

Oh and I saw the biggest ewwiest worm as well, a good 10-15 cm long looked exactly like an earthworm. Creepy thing.

 

[dilbert]

I assume that the Valentini Puffer isn't anymore in that tank if it's the 17G tank from your signature you are talking about because he would eat at least the biggest amphipods.

How large are the biggest amphipods you have seen? 10 to 15 mm should be the maximum. An explosion of amphipods I have only in my pico because there are no shrimps or fish. But the larger amphipods I have seen only in my nano despite shrimps and fish but only from time to time and only a single one.

I don't know why yours are dying but removing the dead ones should be enough as long as your ammonia/nitrite figures are OK.

 

[cuticom]

Nope puffers in another tank now, sorry I keep forgetting to update my sig yeah they'd be about 15mm, a few a bit smaller, actually that might be it maybe since Hamlets not there anymore the dead ones just float around as opposed to him eating them. I've seen quite a few live ones as well the deadies.

More strange invert behavior though the huge bristle worm I saw is still in the same place, its a dark corner of the tank which I have no hope of reaching, its interesting he hasn't gone into the rock work though. Also caught a small bristleworm floating on the surface of the water completely alive and he scarpered when I tried to catch him but it is strange. My crab is also MIA no idea where he's gone I've never seen him leave his little hollow but he's now moved out completely. At least three of the four snails are live though barely moving from their spots but their actively eating and their all situated in areas of high alage die off from the new lighting regime, so maybe their just gutsing.

The corals are strange as well. The blasto has well umm inflated I guess is the best word, looks a tad strange though it doesn't look ill, my frogspawn which I thought was near death is now extending and coming back to life. The torch is extending though not as far as it normally does, but I keep poking it with a turkey baster to get the dino off so that could be it. The Duncan looks kinda okay and the goni is doing quite well but doesn't seem to like the new lighting regime.