Problems With The Reef Tank...

[dilbert]

Well, never saw a bristleworm float or swim. It would need to be able to swim to come to the surface if healthy.

Are you sure that your water parameters are alright, especially salinity, ph, and probably copper?

 

[cuticom]

I've never measured copper but theirs definitely no way copper medications ahve been near the tank, and I use a salt mix and our tap water. Our tap water is collected rainwater so no copper there either.

Salinity and pH are fine, dino is meant to release toxins which harm inverts so I'm guessing its that.

 

[dilbert]

Well, copper could come also from second hand tanks and liverock of FOWLR setups, but if you're convinced that those are toxic dinoflagellates then I would try to take that stuff out manually.

I never had this so I don't know how feasible this is and which ramifications this bears.
Maybe try a Web search and you'll find some instructions.

In the worst case, you could maybe manage to get some new liverock and break up the old tank completely. You wouldn't get rid of those dinos completely but they shouldn't thrive in the new tank.
Or, a 100% water change and cleaning the liverock while the corals are in a bucket should let you start over, too.

It is still an enigma to me why there are so much nutrients in the tank. Overstocking a corals-only tank is not that easy, normally.

 

[cuticom]

No but overfeeding is, 3 cubes of frozen food a day is what's needed to get ill sun corals back on their feet, plenty of nutrients from that...

The liverock came from another reef set up and before that it was in the ocean. Getting new LR isn't an option I'm 16 getting enough money for 20kg of LR would take me months.

Right now I'm trying all that's recommended on other websites running a large amount of carbon, elevating Mg levels, elevating pH, reduced photo period, stopped feeding all together and running a large amount of phosphate remover.

There weren't any ill or dead inverts today so the carbon seems to being its job, the snails have actually moved LOL and there's no bristle worms in site which is generally a good think, all the pods went to ground when the light went on as well as their supposed to and my MIA crab turned up again, looks like he's been feasting on dead amphipods.

Phosphate remover and Mg test kit arrived today and I've added in the phosphate remover and also checked Mg which is at 1350 so I'll bring that up to 1500 which should help if I'm lucky.

If this doesn't work I'll move the corals to a storage tub with their light and protein skimmer and pull the tank apart scrub it within an inch of its life and put the liverock and sand in the dark for a few weeks, which should totally destroy the dino.

 

[dilbert]

Good luck with that catch 22. It's treating sick corals in a sick tank.

You got in concentrated form what is the main difficulty in every aquarium.

Corals want particulate organics but not dissolved organics because on dissolved organics grow algae.

I had once a few cacti in the garden. Almost all of the time they needed a sheet of plexiglass above them because too much moisture let weeds grow that finally would have overgrown the cacti. Also taking those weeds out was as tedious as collecting nuissance algae.
For that reason those cacti want a dry soil and once in a month or so they get very much water.

Similar are corals. They grow in a nutrient-poor water because if not algae would grow over them. But they need to feed, too, the same way cacti neeed some water from time to time.
On a reef, maybe multiple times during a day there is some food in particulate organic matter but this is consumed rapidly or washed away. The surrounding water of the ocean quickly dilutes this particular organic matter so there is no chance that this stuff decomposes and builds dissolved organic matter.

In a tank, this form of dilution is done by water changes but then your stocking density must be very low or you must do very much water changes. Or a skimmer gets rid of the dissolved organic matter but it can take out also the particulate matter. This is sometimes not wanted. Other forms of dilution are a large sump/refugium.

Getting all the other parameters right that you mentioned is also important as a system that is already fragile doesn't need further shortcomings but the main thing is really stopping the left over food from decomposing and getting rid of the waste that the corals release after digestion. That stuff turns into dissolved organics and leaves some almost invisble slime and gunk everywhere. The water looks crystal clear but the rocks and everything else are covered with gunk if you look with a magnifier glass.

Hardy corals can tolerate this but even sensible soft corals close their polyps. In my nano, I also have to clean Halimeda because the leaves get covered with a brown patina that forces Halimeda to shove new leaves from the base instead of growing further on a branch.

This invisible slime is the base where all those nuissance algae attach like bushland building the base for a wood. The day when I don't have to clean my Halimeda anymore I know that I made it.

 

[cuticom]

I'm aware of the problems of feeding so much and already had plans for a species tank for the sun corals in place, I just endedup having to set it up sooner then thought. Though in my defence I was running an extremely overpowered skimmer (suited for a tank 5 times the size of the one it was on) and doing 50% water changes every week, guess it just wasn't enough. Anyway's only one sun coral is in the tank and that'll move across to the new tank soon as well. Though I never had decomposing matter left anywhere my puffer and the other hitchhiker inverts always took care of it and the skimmer picked up the rest my nitrates stay below 5, generally nearer 0.

 

[cuticom]

Hmmm the dino seems to be receding, only a few patches of it left, it seems to be being replaced by cyano, annoying but not lethal.

 

[dilbert]

The best thing is siphoning it out without much spreading around that stuff. From the glass and the rocks this is fairly easy with aturkey baster. If you will go bare bottom by the time by siphoning it out from the sand bed, that shouldn't be a disadvantage.

Important is that this stuff cannot attach to the corals tissue as the polyps might close. Taking it out manually is the only quick fix at the moment as long as the whole thing is out of balance.

If you do water changes, siphon out that stuff first and collect it in the bucket for the waste water because if you take out too much water ocassionally you'll have always to check your salinity as you would take out saltwater and later replace it with top up water.
If you do this siphoning during water changes you take out old saltwater and replace the same amount with fresh saltwater.

I don't know how much water changes you can afford but I would do daily 10% or 20% and check the corals for slime at least twice a day.

When you get bored try to recognise that cyanos are one of the oldest liveforms on earth and that they exclusively created our oxygen athmosphere so we all wouldn't exist in that form without cyanos.

 

[cuticom]

Cyano I don't mind down here in Aus we have these wonderful little stripey snails that for some strange reason eat it, I just put ten of em in the tank, should be gone in no time. But thanks for the advice, it seems the dinos are retreating as well, so I'm placing the tank back on its normal timing and will watch like a hawk for more dino just in case.

 

[dilbert]

Only take care as snails are big poo-ers. What enters their mouth leaves as detritus that worsens water quality, too. Only taking it out manually has the risk to spread the red slime around even if you switch off the pumps. But it has the advantage with every strain of red slime taken out you get rid of nitrates and phosphates, too.

As I said already, only keep the corals free and check that as much during the day as you have time. It is been said and written that red slime releases toxic agents, too, but my guess is that this is rather a concern for people living near the coastline (New Zealands government has a few restrictions on that) than for tank inhabitants.

 

[cuticom]

The protein skimmer should take out whatever the snails poo. Cyanos disappearing by itself now, I haven't fed the tank in quite a while so theres not much for it to live on.

 

[BigC]

Good to see everythings turning round for the better, and all you algae is starting to dissapate.
Regards
BigC