Problems With Fishless Cycle

[minirhyder]

Hi there!
I'm currently doing a fishless cycle in my 29 gallon aquarium. I am about 6 weeks in at the moment and I'm having the following problem.

My ammonia levels won't drop to 0. They go from 2+ppm (after I add in another dose) to 0.5 ppm overnight and stay there. Nitrite levels spike about 12 hours after addition of ammonia and then go to 0 after 24 hours. Nitrate levels rise as well. Ammonia drops to 0.5ppm after 24 hours and stays there.

In addition my pH levels drop to 6.0 after the same period. I've done numerous water changes from 50% to ~80%, dosing with ammonia after each one, to get the results mentioned above. After ~12 hours pH drops to 6.5, and after 24 hours to 6.0.
I have shells in my aquarium, and I added some crushed coral a few days ago to help with pH buffering, but the problem persists.

What can I do to rectify this?
Thanks.

 

[Essjay]

During fishless cycling there are a lot of acids in the tank which can cause a pH crash if you have low carbonate hardness (KH). Once the filter is cycled and you have fish, you won't have nearly this problem especially with the shells and coral in there. But they may not be enough to cope during cycling.
The best thing to do to see you thrigh to the end of the cycle is to add some sodium bicarbonate - I think it is sold as baking soda in the US, you'll find it in the home baling section in the supermarket. Start with 2 tablespoons of baking soda and see if that keeps the pH higher. A pH of  6.0 is low enough to stall your cycle.

 

[minirhyder]

Adding baking soda did the trick.
My cycle seems to be back on track and done, with my ammonia levels now reading 0, after I dosed it to about 2ppm just this morning. Nitrite levels are high, and I'm expecting them to 0 out by next morning.
Thanks a lot!

 

[Essjay]

Check your pH every time you test. If it falls again, add some more baking soda. You need to do a big water change at the end of a fishless cycle and that will also get rid of the soda before you get fish.

 

[CJH0825]

I've had to add baking soda to my tank a few times as I had a Ph crash where it wouldn't even read on the API master kit. Did wonders. I check my levels twice a day and since adding the baking soda, I haven't had a drop in Ph in over a week.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Incidentally, the 'sweet spot' for the bacteria is about 8.4 pH.  Just be sure to THOROUGHLY empty the tank at the end to remove all of the sodium from the tank - or at least as much as humanly possible.

 

[CJH0825]

Noit everyone can run there tank at 8.4 Ph tho. That is more for cichlids. My tank has to run around 6.8 to 7.4.

 

[dalton93]

I've found that using chemicles can actually make the cycling process take much longer for a fish less cycle I just dropped some flake food in the tank once a week only a little bit as the bacteria in the filter need a source of food just like anything else you want living in the tank

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Noit everyone can run there tank at 8.4 Ph tho. That is more for cichlids. My tank has to run around 6.8 to 7.4.

 
 
Of course not.  The pH drops back to your tap water levels with the big water change at the end.  The pH at 8.4 merely speeds up the process of the cycle as that's where the bacteria colony grows the fastest.

I've found that using chemicles can actually make the cycling process take much longer for a fish less cycle I just dropped some flake food in the tank once a week only a little bit as the bacteria in the filter need a source of food just like anything else you want living in the tank

 
Fish food method using Tetra Min fish food (as an example):
Ingredients:

Fish Meal, Dried Yeast, Ground Brown Rice, Shrimp Meal, Wheat Gluten, Feeding Oat Meal, Fish Oil, Potato Protein, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Soybean Oil, Algae Meal, Sorbitol, Lecithin, Monobasic Calcium Phosphate, Ascorbic Acid (Source of Vit. C), Yeast Extract, Inositol, Niacin, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate, Riboflavin-5-Phosphate (Source of Vit. B2), A-Tocopherol-Acetate (Source of Vit. E), D-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate (Source of Vit. B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Source of Vit. B6), Vitamin A Palmitate (Source of Vit. A), Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vit. K), Biotin, Cyanocobalamin (Source of Vit. B12), Cholecalciferol (Source of Vit. D3), Manganese Sulfate Monohydrate, Zinc Sulfate Monohydrate, Ferrous Sulfate Monohydrate, Cobalt Nitrate Hexahydrate.

http/www.petco.com/product/2941/TetraMin-Tropical-Flakes.aspx
 
 
 
The "chemical" fishless cycle adds: ammonium hydroxide and (sometimes) sodium bicarbonate. 
 
 
So, which method is actually adding more "chemicals"? 

 

[dalton93]

I did a load of research when I first started out as my LFS advised me to use this chemical and I wasnt 100% sure I wanted to start putting things I didn't know about in the tank and I read on 1 site that it took someone almost 8 months to finish the cycle using this chemical he had the same problem with their water perameters were all to pot because the bacteria had no real food source

 

[the_lock_man]

I did a load of research when I first started out as my LFS advised me to use this chemical and I wasnt 100% sure I wanted to start putting things I didn't know about in the tank and I read on 1 site that it took someone almost 8 months to finish the cycle using this chemical he had the same problem with their water perameters were all to pot because the bacteria had no real food source

 
If that is indeed the case, whatever the "chemical" was, it wasn't standard bottled ammonia.

 

[dalton93]

Bio start or something like that it was called

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I did a load of research when I first started out as my LFS advised me to use this chemical and I wasnt 100% sure I wanted to start putting things I didn't know about in the tank and I read on 1 site that it took someone almost 8 months to finish the cycle using this chemical he had the same problem with their water perameters were all to pot because the bacteria had no real food source

 
There can be lots of reasons for why "one" individual struggles to get their cycle going.  The bacteria needs three "chemicals" to survive and thrive: ammonia (or ammonium, either one works for them), oxygen and carbon.  Other environmental factors can hinder growth, such as low pH (as already mentioned), low temp (these bacteria do best at 82-84F, or 29-30C), etc.  Also, if the water they are using has had copious amounts of chlorine added to it, the initial level of bacteria can be so small that it takes an extremely large time to build up the colony.
 
 
I'm not sure what "chemical" was being used by this individual, but you need to remember that science isn't built on the the "outlier".  Science is built on an overwhelming number of cases.  There are a lot of variables that need to be accounted for.  Folks on this site have never had an issue with adding ammonium hydroxide, with or without the addition of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate).  The baking soda merely speeds it up slightly.

 

[the_lock_man]

Yep, thought as much. That stuff isn't bottled ammonia. The downside to using fish food as an ammonia source is that it is incredibly difficult to accurately dose your tank, so whilst you will be building up some bacteria that way, there is no way to be sure that you have got enough.
 
With bottled, you dose accurately, and you know the filter is over-populated with bacteria, that will die back when you actually get your fish in there.

 

[CJH0825]

I have heard of people putting Tetra Safe Start in the tank to let it cycle and have had good luck with it. I have never done it tho.