Practical Fish Keeping Forum

[geo7x]

Ignorant postings like the following do your forums reputation no favours, even if as I'm sure, they only represent a small but loud minority;

...don't get how having a 'calming effect' on a kid with autism has anything to do with it, how can a 3 foot fish splashing around in a tank too small for it to turn around in be calming?...

Not quite sure why my post was "ignorant", you have edited most of the post out but I was actually suggesting examples of better setups that would not only contain fish more suitable for the tank but would also be more pleasing to watch for the purpose intended.

I'm not sure about you but my perception of a forum is a place where, amongst other things, people give constructive criticism and advice as to how another member could change their setup in order to suit both theirs and the fishes' needs. But if the Practical Fishkeeping forum is one that just turns a blind eye on something that needs changing and just tells members what they want to hear then that must be the way it is .

In fact it would probably be kinder to the child to tell him what the problem is before it becomes a more serious issue, as it sounds as if the fish are not too big yet. It would probably be more stressful for an autistic child to have to deal with the problem once it has progressed than if he were to hear the truth now.

Personally, with the information given, I find it unproffessional of whoever is responsible to have chosen to take someone else's (i.e. the child's) business into their own hands and assumed responsibility. Has the child or the child's parents/guardians actually asked you to keep him from the truth? If so I do find that quite an extraordinary suggestion and if his condition means he gets upset in the face of conflicting opinion then perhaps the parents or guardians should supervise his internet time.

I understand that as a receiver of secondary information it may not be my place to criticise however I hope that unless the information is completely off (which I doubt as CFC is a responsible moderator) then some of the points raised are taken into account, however please can you understand that all of us take animal welfare very seriously so we do see it as our place to try and make sure that the fish are taken care of in a satisfactory way.

However the main issue of this thread is how CFC was punished for merely expressing the truth, which should be allowed on any forum as long as it is not expressed abusively. Any forum requires the equal treatment of all members and if people are unable to cope with this due to a disability then that is only the responsibility of their carers. Other people, and animals, should not have to suffer as a consequence of that, and you, as a moderator, should not have to feel as if you need to be there to look after this person.

I too hope that you have not just joined to make one contribution to this thread, as we would like to hear any progression of this issue, and most of us would also like to hear another side of the story if it differs from that already provided.

 

[Esfa]

Very well said, geo7x.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Well either way, its not going to be very soothing for the kid when his fish start dying (which they inevitably eventually will, probably from water quality poisoning as the filtration in the tank will struggle more and more with the bioload of the fish as they continue to grow).

Meh, this society is too full of cotton wool kids and people that don't do anything to help these kids become more in touch with reality. I don't think CFC should have been punished as it seems like he was only trying to inform the kid with correct information about the situation and circumstances at hand- be that info was less than positive about the kids tank set up and fish, doesn't mean that it should be censored just so some kid with mental health problems doesn't get upset over the way he's gone about his fish keeping hobby. Fish are not toys or ornaments to be carelessly used as things to sooth autistic kids, they're living animals and they deserve to be in the care of people that look after them properly.
I though PFK's goal was to educate people about fishkeeping and fish, not just tell people whatever makes them happy (even if doing so stands of the way of real progress).

Meh...There are many unjustly run forums out there, i've been on my fair share, even been banned twice from forums in the past- its a real shame when its a forum that caters to a subject/s that you love, but unfortunately forums are just run by ordinary people and so are only as perfect or as flawed in their running as the people that run them.

 

[CFC]

I thought i would bring it to peoples attention how the UK's largest fish keeping publication operates on their forum. During our recent down time i joined their forum to kill some time, there were a few threads that caught my interest and i felt i was able to pass on some of my own experience. I came across a thread where a member had just purchased 3 large growing catfish named as perruno catfish, a species that reaches nearly 3 feet in length, and had a stock list in his signature containing other large fish including Redtailed Catfish, Tiger Shovelnose and a hybrid of the two as well as numerous other tank busters, his signature also said that his largest tank is a 6x2x2 (180 gallon) which clearly wasn't big enough for any of the fish listed. The poster is a 15 year old boy so I posted to ask what he intended to do with the fish when they were full grown and was promptly messaged by a moderator warning me to leave the subject alone as the owner of the fish has autism and finds his fish collection calming. Today the same person posted a video in which i spotted a species of barb that is on the red list as an endangered species and illegal to own in this country. I asked him if he knew what the fish was and from the shady answers given guessed that he and others were aware so i just suggested that maybe he should be careful about letting it be seen in online videos and pictures as the punishment for owning them is a £5000 fine or 5 years in prison. Again i was warned by the moderators to not draw attention to the illegal fish. I have since been told that the owner has permission to own the fish, but if so why all the secrecy? I have now found that i have been put on their "miserable users" list which is effectively a ban which makes accessing the site almost impossible by blocking access to the forum or redirecting me to other pages, quite childish really. Its quite clear that the admin and moderators of the forum do not want experienced and knowledgable members at the forum or people who are willing to ask any thought provoking questions, i just feel sorry for all the members who messaged me to thank me for bringing the matters up and urged me to keep posting at the forum.

may it is courtesy that you should have just PM'd the owner?

nah, much better we read about it here, otherwise we wouldnt have known

and we only get one side of the story?

If you want to see the whole story then anyone can go and read what is left of the threads on the PFK forum, i don't believe any of my posts were edited in any way, although they may have been removed now if their mods have being doing some house cleaning. If people do go there please DO NOT spam their board or cause throuble in any way, that is not what this post was about.

I have a email from Matt Clarke and my reply which i could post here, although i was hoping for another reply from him answering a couple of points i raised, also i'm not sure of the legalities of posting a private email on here and wouldn't want to incur the wrath of the Bauer publishing groups legal team.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

If you want to see the whole story then anyone can go and read what is left of the threads on the PFK forum, i

Whats the title of the thread and the members name? edit: plus the section its in?

 

[CFC]

Just go and search for a member called CFC and then search for all posts by that member, there isn't many so it wont take long to look through them all.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Just go and search for a member called CFC and then search for all posts by that member, there isn't many so it wont take long to look through them all.

This is the thread yes;

http/www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/foru...ead.php?t=14480

 

[CFC]

Yep thats the post, my first comment is on page 2

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I see all the fish in his sig, but i can't find where he states what fish are in what tanks and how big the tanks are- he surely isn't keeping all the fish together in one tank?? The adonis plecos can grow to 40inches long each!

edit: Oh i found the post;

"These are true Perruno i counted the dorsal rays, theres 9. I have 7 tanks and we are installing a bigger one soon or a trop pond, the RTC, and hybrid are going back to work for our new 8x4x4 which we are getting in a month or so."

... ... ...

Still, its no where big enough for those fish. On the whole though, i'm with you CFC, i didn't see anything unreasonable or aggressive about your posts.

 

[CFC]

Post number 4 on page one explains that the 3 new cats are going into a 5x2x2

Thanks Tokis and everyone else who has posted with support in this thread.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Post number 4 on page one explains that the 3 new cats are going into a 5x2x2

Sorry i missed that, kinda in a hurry right now.
IMHO people shouldn't buy fish if they don't have a tank thats gonna be large enough for them in the long term already. Big catfish live for decades and need very dedicated owners, these fish will live longer (if well looked after of course) than what this guy has lived for in his entire life so far, kids his age should not be sold fish which need so much money and dedication to look after. Love alone doesn't look after a fish.
If i were in your situation at that time i probably would have said something similar as to what you said at the time to the kid .

 

[Azaezl]

I agree with you CFC, he is keeping the fish in tanks way too small for them and I personally emailed Matt about what's happened to you and explained that your not some total newbie there to cause trouble or anything and that you would be a fantastic asset to that forum and hoped they would reconsider the ban / miserbale list or whatever it's called.

I also can't post the exact email I recieved as it was confidential but basically Matt does not agree at all with the way the fish are being housed and has advised Bruce about it many times(as others have done also) but what more can you do other then advise someone that they need to get rid of fish or get a much larger tank / pond.

 

[CFC]

Well not protecting them by banning people for questioning them might have been a start.

 

[shroob]

Wow, having read through that thread I see no reason why CFC should have been banned, let alone spoken to the way he did by some members (though I think one did apologise). All he said was the truth and offered advice.

Although the person in question said he was rehoming the fish to a 8x4ft tank, I don't think this is big enough for the fish in question.

 

[Bob Mehen]

Hello again.

Firstly thank you for the cessation of the abusive posts that earlier occured in this thread.

As I mentioned in my first post, I'm not here to have an argument with you - as far as I'm concerned you are all entitled to your views as long as they are not expressed abusively. Also as I mentioned earlier

No-one here knows all the facts in this case

This will have to remain this way due to the fact that much of the information was told in confidence to our admin/moderation team - not to be spread around for general discussion. CFC has been made more fully aware of the situation within the constraints of confidentiality, and has rightly decided not to pass this information on to you here.

Bignose. I personally have to say that the majority of the fish in question are juvenille and sub-adult fish and as yet are not housed in unsuitable quarters - although there is the potential for many of these fish to outgrow these tanks given time. The keeper has recently addressed this issue partly and re-homed a significant number of potential tank-busters, and apparently has plans for a tropical pond. I will also say that apart from the potential longer term size issues his fish are very well looked after with frequent large water changes, good filtration and nutrition. There is no cruelty issue as yet.

As for the general feeling that our moderation team is not facing the problem, again all I can say is we are dealing with the issue, and people here are not privy to our methods - not all advice is given over the open forum. Advice is being given - but how many here like to be told flat out "you are wrong - do as we say"? - guidance is better than being dictated to in most cases I hope most of you would agree.

CFC was never banned, and was removed from the restrictions placed on his account several days ago.


Bob.