Pleco Died, Tetras Are Sick, No Idea What's Happening

[Florin Andrei]

Relatively new 40 l (10 gal) tank. Was installed over 2 months ago. First inhabitants were 3 tetras. Later I added 1 small pleco and 2 plants.

I don't know the current chemical status. Several weeks ago I took a sample of water to the shop and they tested it for me, all parameters were within acceptable limits.

I did not change the water for a long time because people at the store told me not to. After a while, the water became milky and cloudy, to the point where it was hard to see anything inside. Then I changed the water (25% by volume) and replaced the filter. It cleared up in a few days.

I went on a trip overseas for a week, my wife was in charge of feeding the fish. Everything was fine when I left, the water clear, the fish healthy and active.

I returned yesterday. The pleco was dead already. The 3 tetras are sick, their fins and tails have disappeared. They have trouble swimming. There's some white spots on their bellies. There are some bizarre little balls in 2 or 3 places in the tank that look like round chunks of jellyfish.

During my absence, weather was pretty hot, but I don't think the water ever was above 28 C (83 F).

The fish were probably overfed.

If it's a bacterial infection, I can think of 2 sources: When I changed the water, I used a plastic bucket that was sitting outside. I cleaned it, but perhaps there were some germs on it. Another possible source: I installed 2 rocks on the bottom for the pleco to hide under; I kept them in boiling water for a few minutes before, but maybe that was not enough.

What can I do?

 

[Crossfire]

I'd do massive water changes, like 50-75%. Use a gravel vacuum to suck out all the uneaten and rotting food from the gravel. Get rid of those 'jellyfish' balls. Clean the glass where they were. Then refill the tank and put dechlorinator and stress coat in to clean the water and calm the fish. Then treat the whole tank for a bacterial infection. Its fin rot, its what ate your tetras fins and tails. Then treat the tank with a antiparasitic treatment to get rid of the white spots, or the dreaded "Ich". Hope your fish get better.

 

[This Old Spouse]

Relatively new 40 l (10 gal) tank. Was installed over 2 months ago. First inhabitants were 3 tetras. Later I added 1 small pleco and 2 plants.

I don't know the current chemical status. Several weeks ago I took a sample of water to the shop and they tested it for me, all parameters were within acceptable limits.

You should always right down the numbers of these test results and bring them home. "Acceptable limits" varies wildly.

I did not change the water for a long time because people at the store told me not to. After a while, the water became milky and cloudy, to the point where it was hard to see anything inside. Then I changed the water (25% by volume) and replaced the filter. It cleared up in a few days.

By changing the filter, you started the cycle all over again. I'm glad you finally landed on this forum, where you'll find most of us don't trust 2 words out of the mouths of LFS staff. They're there to sell fish, not keep yours healthy. You should have cycled your tank for a couple of months without any fish. There are resources on the home page for beginners. Please read.

I went on a trip overseas for a week, my wife was in charge of feeding the fish. Everything was fine when I left, the water clear, the fish healthy and active.

It's not your wife's fault. Tell her that right now. The problem is an uncycled tank, which harbors ammonia and nitrites, which kills fish.

I returned yesterday. The pleco was dead already. The 3 tetras are sick, their fins and tails have disappeared. They have trouble swimming. There's some white spots on their bellies. There are some bizarre little balls in 2 or 3 places in the tank that look like round chunks of jellyfish.

Honestly, I would euthanize your remaining fish and start all over with a fishless cycle. You can reference the link in my sig below the picture.

During my absence, weather was pretty hot, but I don't think the water ever was above 28 C (83 F).

The fish were probably overfed.

As stated above, they're being poisoned by ammonia and nitrites.

If it's a bacterial infection, I can think of 2 sources: When I changed the water, I used a plastic bucket that was sitting outside. I cleaned it, but perhaps there were some germs on it. Another possible source: I installed 2 rocks on the bottom for the pleco to hide under; I kept them in boiling water for a few minutes before, but maybe that was not enough.

What can I do?

 

[karin]

I'm sorry about all this. For the life of me I can't think why a store says don't change the water. That is nuts. I'm with this old spouse that the problem was that the tank wasn't cycled correctly which is to say that you had no biological colony to process ammonia and nitrite. Stores will pretend that you don't need this but they are wrong. Changing out filter materials also causes problems because that is where most of your biological community will live. So if you change the filter material you lose the ammonia & nitrite consuming bacteria, you get tons of ammonia and nitrite and these kill fish. Basically your water is bad. It was not the rocks and probably not the bucket although good to have a bucket reserved just for fish.

Here is what I would do.

1. Buy your own liquid based water test kit (most of us like the api master test kit) and become your own water manager. You need to be able to test for ammonia, nitrite, pH and nitrate at a minimum. This is such a critical part of fish keeping. Do not rely on local fish stores (lfs). And it is fun being a bit of a chemist.
2. Do an 80% water change immediately (yes and vacume up the jelly balls - might be rotting food) and refill with lots of clean fresh dechlorinated water. Most of us like Seachem's prime. Do 80% water changes daily until you get your test kit.
Note: Water changes alone may resolve all your problems. Can't tell what is going on but fin rot sometimes resolves just with water changes. You may or may not have ICH, a parasite that is common and looks like salt grains on the fish, but don't worry about that now. Water changes are your main priority.
3. When you get the test kit, test your water every day and do a water change if your ammonia or nitrite readings are above zero. Your goal is to keep these at zero and it can take some times. Thankfully, water changes on a 10 gallon are pretty easy.
4. When the ammonia and nitrite are holding for 24 hours at zero, you can test every other day and do the water changes accordingly. Any problems, test your water. Basically you are doing a "fish-in cycle" read about it here:

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/

5. If all your fish die, you are doing a "fish-less cycle" read the above.

6. Don't over feed. Only enough once a day that is consumed in 3 minutes. And don't be afraid to skip a day or two a week. I have an office tank that gets no food on the weekends.

7. 10 gallons are hard to set up. The volume of water is so low that they can get out of wack fast. It is actually easier to run a bigger tank, 30-55 gallon say. So don't be hard on yourself. Get into the spirit of learning.

Ask questions, but I would ask them in the "New Freshwater Tank" section. You'll get more eyes on the problem.

Good luck.

 

[Florin Andrei]

So, the root cause is what I did before I went on vacation. Okay, I'm gonna try and fix it.

I changed 3 buckets full of water (the tank takes 4 buckets), de-chlorinated and brought to normal aquarium temperature. The bad news is one tetra died in the process. But the poor little one was in bad shape anyway, so I was sad but not surprised. The good news is that the remaining 2 tetras are somewhat active. Not quite back to their usual shape (their fins are too short), but better than yesterday. I skipped feeding this evening. I reduced the temperature a bit, it was in the upper half of the green band on the thermometer, my aim is to put it in the lower half of the green zone (maybe a couple degrees lower than before), hopefully alleviating the ammonia issue somewhat.

I'll buy a water test kit and I'll use it as instructed on this thread; funny thing is, I know a thing or two about chemistry and I used to enjoy doing experiments on my own. I guess I was lazy and relied on the LFS - but no more. I'm going to try and save the remaining fish. Worst possible outcome is I learn something.

I understand now that changing water often is not taboo. What is still unclear to me is everything about the filter (the flat square of white cotton-like fiber on a plastic rim, with some charcoal in the middle). I changed it because it was totally clogged, the water was running over and around it, instead of through it. Am I supposed to expect to re-cycle the aquarium every time I change the filter? That sounds like a huge problem. Before, I thought I was going to change the filter every month; but now - how to change it, and how often, are mysteries.

The kids are returning from vacation on August 21st. If I manage to repopulate the aquarium until then, I dodged the bullet. If not, well, it's time they learn a few things about life; they're 9 and 6 years old.

I'll worry about Ich after I stabilize the system - assuming I still have live fish in the aquarium by then.

 

[This Old Spouse]

You're doing everything right. That's wonderful! You may have some survivors after all.

In regard to the filters, without going into every single detail, the square of white cottony stuff is what holds all that wonderful bacteria that you need to keep your tank balanced. You don't need to have the charcoal in it. The stuff only works for about 3 days and then just sits there, so the next time you put a new cartridge on the frame, don't use the charcoal. (Exception, when you're trying to get any remaining medication out of the water after dosing period is up.)

In the interim ... each time you do a water change, take out the filter cartridge and swish it around in the tank water you just removed. This will take care of the excess mulm, the glop that gets all over the filter floss. You can do this for several months before the floss eventually just falls apart. When it does, just take a large chunk of what's left and put it into a new cartridge bag, remember, with no charcoal. Then you're good for another substantial stretch of time.

When refilling, I make sure the new water temp is as close to the tank temp as possible, and I dechlor the water before it goes back in the tank. You were talking about buckets and that's how I do it too. I start the water filling, add the Stress Coat, make sure the water temp matches the tank water, then slowly pour it in the tank.

Keep doing lots of water changes until your ammonia and nitrites read 0. And that would help with fin rot and/or ich too.

 

[karin]

Awesome, let that inner chemist out!!!! (I'm a marriage and family therapist and feed my inner chemist with aquariums and winemaking!!!)

The thing about filters is this..... Filter companies have made their products with those unique cartridges so you think you have to buy from them monthly. That is insane. So here is what many of us do. We just do our own filter media (the various stuff inside the filter) and skip the cartridges. I don't know what filter you have but here is what I would suggest. See if you can just have a sponge material and a net bag full of ceramic filter material. All of this can be bought at a good lfs. I have Aquaclear filters that make this easy. So you use a sponge like below Some folks actually use those round kitchen sponges, below is a sponge for an Aquaclear filter that can be easily cut to fit. The sponge should be about 1/3 of the filter space. Then fill the net bag with the ceramic "noodles" or sometimes it is in little balls. These are the most efficient host for the biological communities. These should take the remaining 2/3 of the filter or so. I have used nylons instead of filter bags, but more like a fishnet stocking so water flows through easier. Close knit nylons would clog too easily. Ask your wife for advice if you need it. LOL!!!! She is going to love this.

Charcol is really only used to rid a tank of medication. I almost never use it, relying on water changes to rid a tank of medication instead. It can host your biological filter colonies but it is relatively inefficient at that.

Then every other week during the water change (I change 20% weekly) I swish and squeeze the sponge and net bag in the old tank water in the bucket and dump the gunky water. You do not have to change out the filter material unless it is literally falling apart. This thing about changing cartridges monthly is only to sell you more and it risks disturbing the biological filter capability. I have not changed filter material in over a year since setting up my tanks.
Below gives you and idea about what I'm talking about in terms of product. Good luck and have fun.

 

[Florin Andrei]

I did regular 75% water changes, almost every day (was dead tired yesterday so I skipped it). Fed the fish less food, skipped one feeding day as well for good measure.

The changes are striking. The two survivors are pretty much back to their normal activity level - well, allowing for the fact that their fins are smaller. The white dots that at least one of them had on its body (the other one is naturally a creamy white color, so it's hard to see any dots) are essentially gone. Thanks everyone for the advice, it really helped.

The water test kit should arrive in the mail tomorrow. I'm curious as to what the results might be.

 

[This Old Spouse]

That's wonderful!!! I love a happy ending.

Do let us know what your stats are when you test them. I'm curious too!

Well done!

 

[Florin Andrei]

Well, some surprises - take a look at the spreadsheet:

water test spreadsheet

Ammonia zero - my wife insisted there's a shade of green in the test tube, but all I could see was plain yellow; so it's either zero, or very close. Nitrite zero. Nitrate 5 ppm.

pH however is pretty high. First I thought it's because of the calcareous rocks in the tank, but then I tested tap water and, sure enough, the normal pH test shows pure blue - 7.6 or higher.

I'm thinking to fix the pH next time I do a water change, but I'm not sure how. Could I add acetic acid (vinegar) to the bucket with fresh water, after the dechlorinating agent, until the pH reaches 7.0? Heck, I've a big can of concentrated hydrochloric acid in the garage but something tells me it would be excessive. OTOH, if I'm careful, I only add a few drops and it brings the pH down to exactly 7, why not?

What's the recommended procedure to lower the pH of tap water?

EDIT: By the way, I just saw the fish darting to and fro, chasing each other - my kids would say they're "supercharged". I guess that's a good sign.

 

[This Old Spouse]

Good news that they're looking better!

From all the reading I've done here, most will not recommend adding any type of chemicals to your tank to reduce the pH. Instead it's recommended that you put some bogwood in your tank. This effectively reduces the pH, generally looks good, and the fish will like it, especially your pleco.

 

[karin]

Keep reading the new freshwater tank section; lots of discussion on water stats there. Most folks would say don't bother messing with our pH. While it may limit you in terms of some fish (none I can think of for a 10 gallon - usually we are talking discus or german blue rams), most fish are tank bred and can handle a wide range of pH. My home tanks are at a steady pH of 8.0 and the fish do well. Trying to artifically fix pH usually leads to more fluctuations and it is those fluctuations that are difficult for fish.

Good luck.