Please Think Twice Before You Get A Cat...

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Or do you honestly believe that cats are better than pigs, cows, sheep, chickens etc? Why?

They're on the same level as dogs, domesticated, intelligence, and companion wise.

Would you really compare a dog to a sheep?

I wouldn't compare cats to dogs, dogs are far more intelligent (by the way where did you get info that cats were on the same level as dogs intelligence wise?). But farm animals are domesticated too, and the majority are more intelligent than cats- pigs for example are more intelligent than both cats and dogs, they are some of the most intelligent animals in the world.
If you are talking companionship- the only reason why people don't keep animals like pigs, cows or sheep as pets is because they grow huge and are high maintanence animals. On the other hand, some people even keep pigs as pets and they make great companions !

I think you have a favoritism issue here. You keep cats and like them so you have become more emotionally attached to them, you see them as what they are (perhaps even more)- but you couldn't posible imagine a farm animal being intelligent, having emotions and feelings or needing companionship because that would question your beliefs on eating them.
For example, you wouldn't eat a cat because you've seen a lot more of what they are like as animals on a human level after keeping them as pets, but you would eat a pig and not think twice about it because you don't worry about pigs at all and would prefer to see them as dumb animals that don't even come close to cats, yes?

Cows take pleasure in solving problems, sheep can form deep friendships between each other (and can recognise over 50 over sheep) and can learn tricks, pigs can suffer and feel emotions like us, farm animals need emotional TLC;

http/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4360947.stm

http/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/n...est/5048644.stm

http/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/261524.stm

Pigs are exceptionally intelligent and can learn tricks like dogs, pet pigs;

http/www.upprs.com/training/training.htm

"Sheep like smiles: Sheep can recognise emotions in facial expression, not only in their species but also in humans, researchers say";

http/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england...ire/3796017.stm

And finally, sheep can recognise over 50 faces (human or sheep alike), feel emotion and have conscious thought, while "dogs and cat have poorer visual systems and may not be as well equipped";

http/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1641463.stm


So before you get totally digusted at someone mentioning that cats are not superior to farm animals (because there is nothing that suggests they are no matter wether you like it or not, they may even be less advanced than some farm animals), perhaps you should think twice on why you are so disgusted- because farm animals are intelligent, emotional, domesticatd and need companionship too.

Does that mean we should just accept things though? Thats like saying rabbits are just part of the food chain in australia, so despite the massive ammounts of damage they cause to the environment, we should just accept it.

The only way to really solve the cat population killing wildlife problem we have over here is to try and discourage people from buying cats, but instead also incourage people to neuter their cats and be more vigilant of stray cat populations.
There are other small steps we can take to help sort out the domestic cats versus nature problem, but although they are a part of food chains, they certainly aren't a part of natural food chains (cats don't just threaten the animals they prey on, because cats kill rodents and birds they also use up the food sources of native predators like foxs or birds of prey).

Well, yes. Songbirds are quickly repopulated every spring; they're not going extinct, hon, and even at the rate we're going they won't be. And perhaps by the time they've become mostly extinct, cats will move onto another prey because songbirds are not easily found. They may start killing rabbits, but what have rabbits ever done for us? Not the domesticated kind - but the wild hares that invade out garden, eat out carrots? The food chain has changed. According to Adam and Eve (not meant to be offensive if you don't believe in this), animals existed before them, so maybe we aren't part of the natural food chain either? Maybe we shouldn't eat any meat then, or vegetables, and do the same for our cats.

I keep my cats spayed, and they go in at night, but 1/2 the time I see birds lying around. (And my maine coon kitten keeps on bringing them in when we're not watching... ) But it's the birds fault, they are entirely unaware, which is why our cats always stalk them instead of moles, rats, mice.

"They are not going to go extinct"- speak for yourself, there are many species/types of songbirds and pretty much all have been declining or are much lower in numbers than what they were 100 years ago.
The only reason why some are making a comeback is because people are investing millions of pounds into wildlife sanctuaries for them and other animals. Wild hares are also threatened over here, and even if they did eat my carrots i don't think that would be a reason to let them get wiped out.
I don't just get concerned about animals that have some direct use to the human race, i believe all animals should be cared for on an equal level.

Yes you could say animals have been going extinct before we even came along on the evolutionary scene, and that we are just another type of animal, so why should we bother at all about such matters?
Well, personally i don't want to be just another animal. And even if i am, i am a conscious and intellgent one at that, and believe in taking responsablity for my actions and looking after the environment and its wildlife even when everyone doesn't care less about such matters.
Its not the birds fault that all of a sudden we stick a predator in its habitat, its our fault. I don't have anything against animals going extinct if it is something to do with nature and not through man made problems, but in the case of domestic cats this is a man made problem and thus i am not going to let it pass me by in my thoughts at the very least.

 

[RandomWiktor]

Is this topic a joke? You don't need to stop adopting or owning cats because they are destructive to wildlife. There are plenty of sites on inexpensive DIY cat enclosures to allow your cat space and outdoor exposure without acess to wildlife, and there's always the option of a housecat (a properly enriched housecat, that is). I am a wildlife rehabilitator and I abhor the thought of outdoor cats since the overwhelming majority of my patients and fatalities were cat caught, and I see cats as a harmful invasive species that has had a devastating impact on our environment. But I certainly have no issues with housecats and properly enclosed cats - I happen to have one myself!
I'm glad you're spreading the word about cats and wildlife, but it is highly unreasonable to suggest that people stop adopting and owning cats. It would have been more effective to educate about responsible cat ownership that protects cats and wildlife instead of posting something that inflammatory.

As for everyone prattling on about the food chain... I find it interesting that you think a domesticated animal has any place in the natural food chain. I also find it interesting that, if you're such hardcore food chain fans, you aren't out there letting lions and wolves munch on your head. After all, without weapons, humans are decidedly low on the food chain, being nice, fleshy, weak, slow, grubby things that we are. Just face it: domesticated animals, a category in which I include humans since we've domesticated ourselves, do much more harm than good to the natural order, and the best way to protect things both wild and tame is to keep them well away from one another.

 

[wodesorel]

I think you have a favoritism issue here. You keep cats and like them so you have become more emotionally attached to them, you see them as what they are (perhaps even more)- but you couldn't posible imagine a farm animal being intelligent, having emotions and feelings or needing companionship because that would question your beliefs on eating them.

For example, you wouldn't eat a cat because you've seen a lot more of what they are like as animals on a human level after keeping them as pets, but you would eat a pig and not think twice about it because you don't worry about pigs at all and would prefer to see them as dumb animals that don't even come close to cats, yes?

I refuse to eat chicken, pork, lamp, sheep, rabbit, duck, pheasent, deer.... etc. etc. Too cute and cuddly, and they are too intelligent.

The only thing I'll eat is beef - and that's just because I have issues with anemia, and the doctor told me I have to SOME kind of meat. As soon as I hopefully grow out of it, I'll stop eating that, too.

I think the one with issues is you. You seem like a cat hater, and I wouldn't be surprised if you admitted to harming or killing cats. Seriously.

 

[cheekeyarab]

[/quote]

I refuse to eat chicken, pork, lamp, sheep, rabbit, duck, pheasent, deer.... etc. etc. Too cute and cuddly, and they are too intelligent.

The only thing I'll eat is beef - and that's just because I have issues with anemia, and the doctor told me I have to SOME kind of meat. As soon as I hopefully grow out of it, I'll stop eating that, too.

I think the one with issues is you. You seem like a cat hater, and I wouldn't be surprised if you admitted to harming or killing cats. Seriously.
[/quote]


Having anaemia does not mean you need to eat beef. You'd be better off drinking guiness!

I hope the last part of your post was a joke because it was a hideous thing to say and complete BS.

On topic now, I have a cat, he goes outside. When he can be bothered he does kill the odd bird or mouse. He can't wear a bell because I refuse to use collars on him (two very bad experiences put me off)
On the whole I am not that bothered by what he does - he's just doing what cat's do and the population of songbirds in our area is thriving. Geese, on the other hand are suffering because of shooting. That bothers me. We know better cats don't.
And no, I won't keep him inside or build an enclosure because he is 7 and it wouldn't be fair. He is more important to me than anything else.
I will take the information provided into consideration for future cats though.

 

[LisaLQ]

Wow, unecessary comment there - how does being worried about wildlife mean they abuse cats? Hey mister songbird, I love you and other animals so much I'm going to club a cat, which itself is an animal, to death with a bird table....

I agree with the second to last poster (sorry I didn't get your name - but it's very late and I'm on my way to bed *lol*). There is no reason to suggest folks stop owning cats, thats just condemning more cats to the lethal injection at the shelters and therefore meaning less strays taken in, and therefore...*deep breathe*...leading to more stray cats hunting and more wildlife destroyed. We should be encouraging responsible pet ownership - indoor or enclosed cats. I've seen cat enclosures, but even more space for them would be to install cat proof fencing (I know it's possible, by having high fences with inward angled tops, but you'd have to look up details on how to do it as I only read it in passing). If folks cant do that, then indoor cats lead happy lives too (although that is discussed on anther emotive thread - be warned, reading it may lead to replying, and replying may lead to verbal!).

Dont get me wrong, I hate the thought of cats killing countless animals, but I do still love cats, even if I scream when they crap in my garden or wind up my dog purely because someone cant keep them on their own property....and intend to have one or two maybe in the future, when (heaven forbid) my dog passes on. But they'll be indoor, neutered, vaccinated cats - not straying or nuisances. The only hunting they'll do is of each other when they're playing

*Ps* Make that third to last poster I agreed with as someone else posted while I was typing, and my reply was aimed at the person saying they thought the OP abused cats.

 

[RandomWiktor]

Aye, the comment about the Tolkis being a cat abuser was a bit out of line. Definately a personal attack, and something we shouldn't be seeing on civilized forums.
As for the Anemia thing... I won't get on a soapbox for veganism, because I don't like the idea of imposing dietary habits on other people. But if you are allready essentially a vegetarian, it might interest you to know that a balanced vegetarian or vegan diet is just as good for you, if not better, than a diet with meat. I was anemic chomping down calf livers 4x's a week, but am no longer anemic as a vegan of seven years. I think it was because I finally had to pay attention to my nutrition, which made me realize how unbalanced my whole diet was before. If ya want any links on plant foods with high iron, feel free to PM me.

 

[Siamese Fighter05]

If people do nothing about the 100's of species WE as human beings drive to extinction everyday, you really think they're going to be bothered about the decline of wild birds by their cuddly pets...?

My cat got out 2 days ago (We keep her in house) and killed a pigeon. I wish cats would start hunting these flying rats instead

 

[Captain Retardo]

Yes, Humans are a much bigger problem then outdoor cats, just look at how many species go extinct every day: Three species go extinct every hour of every day. More than 30 species go extinct while you sleep. 20,000 species go extinct in a year. All due to humans. But have outdoor cats ever caused an extinction? NO.

the fact is from this link: http/www.k12.de.us/warner/endangered.html
Yes it is a school website, but its still valid.

but in the case of domestic cats this is a man made problem and thus i am not going to let it pass me by in my thoughts at the very least.

There are much bigger environmental problems in the world than cats eating birds.

I refuse to eat chicken, pork, lamp, sheep, rabbit, duck, pheasent, deer.... etc. etc. Too cute and cuddly, and they are too intelligent.

The only thing I'll eat is beef - and that's just because I have issues with anemia, and the doctor told me I have to SOME kind of meat. As soon as I hopefully grow out of it, I'll stop eating that, too.

I think the one with issues is you. You seem like a cat hater, and I wouldn't be surprised if you admitted to harming or killing cats. Seriously.

Woedersel- So you would eat a reptile? Why does the intelligence even matter? And it is a terrible thing to say that Tokis is a cat-hater, he obviously isn't, and he makes a valid point, What does make cats better than any animal at all, even insects they are no better than insects, but so are all other animals, they are all on the same scale here. You can say you like one more than the other (I like cats more than dogs) but you cannot say one is better.




I don't understand vegetarians at all!

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Is this topic a joke? You don't need to stop adopting or owning cats because they are destructive to wildlife. There are plenty of sites on inexpensive DIY cat enclosures to allow your cat space and outdoor exposure without acess to wildlife, and there's always the option of a housecat (a properly enriched housecat, that is). I am a wildlife rehabilitator and I abhor the thought of outdoor cats since the overwhelming majority of my patients and fatalities were cat caught, and I see cats as a harmful invasive species that has had a devastating impact on our environment. But I certainly have no issues with housecats and properly enclosed cats - I happen to have one myself!
I'm glad you're spreading the word about cats and wildlife, but it is highly unreasonable to suggest that people stop adopting and owning cats. It would have been more effective to educate about responsible cat ownership that protects cats and wildlife instead of posting something that inflammatory.

As for everyone prattling on about the food chain... I find it interesting that you think a domesticated animal has any place in the natural food chain. I also find it interesting that, if you're such hardcore food chain fans, you aren't out there letting lions and wolves munch on your head. After all, without weapons, humans are decidedly low on the food chain, being nice, fleshy, weak, slow, grubby things that we are. Just face it: domesticated animals, a category in which I include humans since we've domesticated ourselves, do much more harm than good to the natural order, and the best way to protect things both wild and tame is to keep them well away from one another.

I am not advising people to stop cats- sorry my “its better if you don’t get a cat at all†statement should have been clearer, I was meaning to refer to people who bought cats rather than adopt them, as I have mentioned in other recent cat threads, I have nothing against those who adopt the animals.

On the other hand, I still go with one of my other statements that if things continue to go the way they are going, there simply will never be enough people to adopt enough cats to take them all off the streets- this is why I am not against cat euthanasia because it is one of the only practical solutions to deal with the booming stray cat population at current.
That does not mean I think euthanasia is great or that I don’t pity stray cats, but I do believe it is better than letting them breed and die on the streets, not just increasing their own populations, but also spreading disease and causing accidents (I wonder how many car accidents stray cats cause for example?).

Also there’s no reason to let animals kill and eat us just because we are a part of the food chain, yes we are pretty defenceless against such predators like lions and wolves, and they are a potential natural predators, but not matter how naked we are we still have our brains to defend us. And besides, we don’t make great eating for such animals anyway, we are all very bony animals.

I am not trying to make our cats cause more damage to the environment than us, I never have, I am just pointing out the realities of the damage cat’s cause to the environment.

I think you have a favoritism issue here. You keep cats and like them so you have become more emotionally attached to them, you see them as what they are (perhaps even more)- but you couldn't posible imagine a farm animal being intelligent, having emotions and feelings or needing companionship because that would question your beliefs on eating them.

For example, you wouldn't eat a cat because you've seen a lot more of what they are like as animals on a human level after keeping them as pets, but you would eat a pig and not think twice about it because you don't worry about pigs at all and would prefer to see them as dumb animals that don't even come close to cats, yes?

I refuse to eat chicken, pork, lamp, sheep, rabbit, duck, pheasent, deer.... etc. etc. Too cute and cuddly, and they are too intelligent.

The only thing I'll eat is beef - and that's just because I have issues with anemia, and the doctor told me I have to SOME kind of meat. As soon as I hopefully grow out of it, I'll stop eating that, too.

I think the one with issues is you. You seem like a cat hater, and I wouldn't be surprised if you admitted to harming or killing cats. Seriously.

I feel very insulted by your comment wodesorel, think before you post more if you don’t want to come off so obviously insulting that way! Firstly though;
a. Just because I am not posting loads of pro-cat comments does not make me a “cat haterâ€, neither does not believing cats are superior to other animals.

b. I have never harmed or killed a cat in my life. It would be like me saying I would not be surprised if you are a bird killer because you don’t seem concerned at all about such animals in comparison to your kitties- you have even said you think cats are better than them anyway.
Just because i have nothing positive to say about the rabbit population problem in Australia doesn't make me a rabbit hater just as much as this thread does not make me a cat hater.
If you have not noticed already, this is a thread about the environmental impact of cats on the environment, so it’s unlikely anyone will be posting tons of positive things about cats and the environment because of the reality of the situation- if you want to just read about the loveable side of cats or cannot handle anyone posting anything remotely not positive about cats, there are plenty other threads to read that sort of stuff.

c. Secondly, its you who said farm animals were not intelligent and un-superior life forms in comparison to pets like dogs and cats. Also, you should do some nutritional research if you believe eating cows is the best way to obtain protein.

Your comments on me were completely out of line.
Ps: Thankyou everyone else who also saw such comments as out of line too.

If people do nothing about the 100's of species WE as human beings drive to extinction everyday, you really think they're going to be bothered about the decline of wild birds by their cuddly pets...?

My cat got out 2 days ago (We keep her in house) and killed a pigeon. I wish cats would start hunting these flying rats instead

Yes, Humans are a much bigger problem then outdoor cats, just look at how many species go extinct every day: Three species go extinct every hour of every day. More than 30 species go extinct while you sleep. 20,000 species go extinct in a year. All due to humans. But have outdoor cats ever caused an extinction? NO.

the fact is from this link: http/www.k12.de.us/warner/endangered.html
Yes it is a school website, but its still valid.

but in the case of domestic cats this is a man made problem and thus i am not going to let it pass me by in my thoughts at the very least.

There are much bigger environmental problems in the world than cats eating birds.

Actually I do believe people will care (perhaps I am old-fashioned, but I don’t believe everyone is heartless of such plights)- many people here seem to have the view that because the cat versus nature problem isn’t the most damaging impact on the environment in the world at the moment, no one will bother/the subject is pointless.

But as I have said before, every action towards helping wildlife counts a lot, no matter how small. I am not saying the cat issue takes priority to all other environmental issues in the world right now, I have never said it did nor indicated that- my point it, is that it is an important subject none the less, and if the only thing I do by doing this thread is make people more aware of the problem, that at least will be a good thing.

 

[Opcn]

LMAO WHO WOULD BE SO WORRIED ABOUT BIRDS!?!?!?!?!? ITS PART FO THE FOOD CHIAN MAN!

I have to agree, the food chain is important. Maybe they should make a bird-flavored cat food to satisfy their tastes, but cats are far more important than birds. I feel sorry for the birds when my cat kills a small one, but you simply cannot say a cat shouldn't kill a large, annoying bird such as a crow. Besides, an eagle can take a kitten away and no one gets annoyed by that. It's the food chain. Without it, we would be starved, probably, and left with no important vitamins to support us.

What on earth are you talking about? Cats are more important than birds, cats have two functions, controlling rodents, and comforting humans. there are people who draw comfort from songbird Species that do not sumply bounce back every spring, you can tell the difference in many song birds when you get to areas with fewwer cats, even areas a few miles from each other and as far as rodents are concerned there are many species of small dog that are more effective at rodent controll and do not catch birds. So, cats are only more important if you ignore other peoples opinions, just like a civilized person right.

As far as the importance of birds go, you do realise that there are hawks that eat birds durring the winter and fieldmice durring the summer, without the song birds (in the winter when populations are at there lowest) the hawks cannot make it through winter satisfactoraly and cannot reproduce as sucessfully or perhaps at all, further complicating the DDT problem. I personally like crows, alot, just because they annoy you doesn't mean they need to go, they are important to the ballance of the ecosystem, they are scavangers and they therefor prevent the spread of desease, In alaska no one ever sees rodekill, I've spent hundreds of hours unfortunately on the highways here and I have yet to see one dead porcupine or dog or cat or cub, yes they do get hit, but they are cleaned up imediately by the ravens, animals are not exposed to rotting meat which carries a miriad of deseases thanks to corvids, while there song may not be beautiful (most of the time, some raven songs are captivating) They perform a vital function that makes them More important than cats. Many birds spread seeds for woody species like mullberry, everyone is talking about how we are running out of forests, how trees are being chopped down and burned adding to the greenhouse gas problem, and how food supplies are too far from cities, trees like cherry trees and mullberry trees fix all those problems, they put the food right next to the city and they put up a tree aswell. More birds equals more berries eaten, and that means more berries planted and more trees grown were they are needed.

As for

not just this country but on all continents that cats are found,
I think the only one is Antartica where cats havn't made their presence felt.

just remember this
Cats were once worshipped as gods
and they havn't let us forget this fact tongue2.gif

Surely you realise that we are not talking about wild cats, any wild cat is fine with me, but you also realise that wild and domestic cats act in very different ways. a Cougar is not a tabby, a lion is no siamese, an oscelot is not a persian, in much the same way as a congo pufer is not a dwarf puffer, a giant danio is not a microrasborah, a wolf is not a cockerspaniel and a gorilla is not a capatchune.

 

[Commander Cool]

I have 2 cats and I honestly don't care if they kill birds or other small rodents. If I see them killing a creature I will stop them but I won't keep them inside all the time just so they don't kill a bird or a dozen. I care about my cats MUCH more then any amount of birds or small rodents.

 

[Auratus]

This is our fault. Not cats.We are the ones that don't spay/neuter them.

And there is more of a declining bird population because of us destroying natural habitats. Cats are the least of the problem

I say we call it even. How many cats do you think are hit by cars every year? Dogs? Deer? Birds hitting windshields? I'm sure way more then the amount of Mice Snowball played with.

I'm sure someone has said this already, I couldn't read the whole topic, it was too long

 

[Synirr]

I wouldn't compare cats to dogs, dogs are far more intelligent

Not so. It all depends on how you define intelligence.

If you think intelligence is easier trainability, the capacity to remember more commands, and obedience, then yeah, dogs have got that. If you think having the mind about you to disobey commands when you can't be bothered and the wits to survive better unaided by us humans is intelligence, then cats have that. Cats are primarily a solitary species, dogs are pack animals, and therein the differences lie. The mind of a cat is quite literally wired differently, which diminishes their ability to retain commands and easily interpret our verbal and body language because, as a solitary species, they don't have as much need for that -- don't think that that space is simply left empty, though. Most show favoritism to dogs when questioned about intelligence because we ourselves are a social species and tend to value these traits in dogs more highly than we do the independence and capability of cats. However, being a pack species, dogs are not as good at surviving and providing for themselves without relying on others. They rely on that pack mindset. So as I said, you could swing that argument either way depending on what you value. Skills and capaiblity also vary greatly in the breed and the individual animal.

As for

not just this country but on all continents that cats are found,
I think the only one is Antartica where cats havn't made their presence felt.

just remember this
Cats were once worshipped as gods
and they havn't let us forget this fact tongue2.gif

Surely you realise that we are not talking about wild cats...

Um, yeah, I'm pretty sure they were refering to domestics... Domestic cats are found on every continent but Antarctica as well, and were worshipped by the ancient Egyptians.

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

im allergic to cats and birds and ive been attacked by both many times so i dont like them!boo! i like dogs they r way more fun and ive only been attacked once when i was really young by this digo rotwiller mix and once by this rotwiller in the park, he hit my hip when i was going down the hill on my bike!

 

[rob newland]

Yep we get a fare ol' amount of rabbits and birds for "presents" from our 2 cats, but the main reason I dislike them is that they are always inclined to relieve themselves on my bed . So now they are banned from entering my room !