PLEASE close this topic

[BettaMomma]

You're entitled to your opinion and I completely understand what you're saying.
I just think that there has to be some medium that would need to be met that would help cut off the complete impulse buying becuase they only cost about three bucks.

I wouldn't want to alienate college kids (I was a single mother and paid for ALL of my own college tuition, food, rent, gas, clothing, etc. etc. so I've been there - I know how it is).

I don't know what the answer is. I don't think anyone does.
So, unfortunately the world of bettas will probably go on forever and ever the way it is in .

 

[Sorrell]

I understand that it is in the fish's best interest, BUT... that is only because shippers/wholesalers/retailers and ultimately the consumers want to save money.

It's in the fish's best interest period. The low cost is an afterfact.

I do pay 50bucks a fish (and sometimes much more) and they arrive pretty much the same way because it's tried and true. If you believe that pampering is a big sloshing trip flaring at your neighbors and arriving sick, constipated, and with massive fin damage then I guess our ideas of cruelty are night and day.

 

[BettaMomma]

I understand that it is in the fish's best interest, BUT... that is only because shippers/wholesalers/retailers and ultimately the consumers want to save money.

It's in the fish's best interest period. The low cost is an afterfact.

I do pay 50bucks a fish (and sometimes much more) and they arrive pretty much the same way because it's tried and true. If you believe that pampering is a big sloshing trip flaring at your neighbors and arriving sick, constipated, and with massive fin damage then I guess our ideas of cruelty are night and day.

The thing I think we're all saying is that we'd like to stop these massive shipments from overseas. That's what I'd like to see anyway.

There are other things that could be done so that these fish didn't have to endure days in the pitch dark, teeny tiny cramped conditions - lots of them suffering and dying on the way. And don't ask me what it is that can be done, because I'm not a breeder and probably won't ever be. If you just think about it on a broader scope than "how the hell are then supposed to ship fish thousands of miles to get them to where they need to be"... there are things that can be done.

Uuugh - if I had known just how much raking over the coals I'd get for simply showing the facts and the truth, I'd have NEVER created this post.

 

[Haiku]

I think I'd be accurate in saying that most animals are shipped in what we might find to be cramped quarters, dogs are shipped in airliner crates, birds and rodents are shipped in small aerated boxes and so on. While I agree that it certainly LOOKS uncomfortable and when one empathizes it seems inhumane, it often is in the best interest in the animals. This is the question I had before regarding this when it was brought up previously, although at that time no one really answered it. That is if it would actually be a safer method than being shipped in little cups and bowls etc.

While I agree there is MUCH inhumane treatment out there to all animals, I also think there is a point where we must accept some things that may have the appearance of being unpleasant, or we go the way of the Peta founders eventually and become unaccepting of the keeping of any pets, period. We cannot project our feelings TOO much on animals or we reach the point of saying, "How would you like to be someone's pet and only be fed when they chose and not be allowed to live the way God intended in the wild, being there merely for human entertainment." While I don't really consider myself the type to get pets for entertainment, I did get my fish for the pleasure of watching them and because I think they are beautiful. I have provided them with the best care I know how, and I think they are living quite happy lives.

I do feel it is still admirable and the right thing to do to confront places that are keeping their fish in squalid conditions, but in this case I think one must either accept that they way they are shipped is what is best for them, or be against the shipping of bettas completely. If this were to be the case, I would be in disagreement with you, but not attacking of your views and I'd have no less respect for you. It would simply be a differing in views. After what has been explained here, I'm inclined to believe it's being done in their best interest. I'd rather they have a couple days kept immobile than the death/damage toll to be higher upon their arrival. However, if anyone has a tried and true better method, I'd be very interested to see/hear of it .

Edited to ask: Does anyone know for sure the average amount of days the fish spend packed away while being shipped? I had assumed 2-3 days?

 

[Sorrell]

I understand that it is in the fish's best interest, BUT... that is only because shippers/wholesalers/retailers and ultimately the consumers  want to save money.

It's in the fish's best interest period. The low cost is an afterfact.

I do pay 50bucks a fish (and sometimes much more) and they arrive pretty much the same way because it's tried and true. If you believe that pampering is a big sloshing trip flaring at your neighbors and arriving sick, constipated, and with massive fin damage then I guess our ideas of cruelty are night and day.

The thing I think we're all saying is that we'd like to stop these massive shipments from overseas. That's what I'd like to see anyway.

There are other things that could be done so that these fish didn't have to endure days in the pitch dark, teeny tiny cramped conditions - lots of them suffering and dying on the way. And don't ask me what it is that can be done, because I'm not a breeder and probably won't ever be. If you just think about it on a broader scope than "how the hell are then supposed to ship fish thousands of miles to get them to where they need to be"... there are things that can be done.

Uuugh - if I had known just how much raking over the coals I'd get for simply showing the facts and the truth, I'd have NEVER created this post.

You're still not seeing my point, whether a store is recieving 100 fish or I'm getting say 3 or 4 they will be shipped the same way. Anyone who's recieved fish from me have had them arrive the same as well.

 

[BettaMomma]

I am thinking it's maybe time to close this topic.
It could go on for days and obviously there are people out there who strongly believe in what they believe in.

I don't want to argue with anyone anymore.

And for the record, i HATE the idea of shipping bettas anywhere - although it obviously has to be done in order to get them to where they need to go.

 

[Haiku]

Please don't feel you made a mistake in showing the pictures and opening this topic. I'm actually very glad you did, because it helped me see and learn exactly what is going on and why. My post was not meant in the least to attack you or your opinions. I very highly respect you. I just wanted to share my thoughts on the situation. Thanks BettaMomma.

 

[Sorrell]

Sorry if you feel attacked, but I think some of us felt attacked from the very first post.

Without shipping, we wouldn't have shows, our genetic information would suffer as no one would see firsthand results, we breeders wouldn't be able to continue our lines, we wouldn't have any fish at all, NONE! When you attack the shipping, you attack the hobby as a whole and everything that we are doing for this species.

I have no problem with this topic or even that people who have never shipped would wonder if this was best for them. What I do have a problem with is that we need our eyes opened to this "cruelty" which many of us are doing quite often.

I see it as an insult to my fishkeeping and the 4-6 hours a day I spend caring for these fish.

 

[RandomWiktor]

Just for the record, I absoultely love to see bettas all alone (though only if they are in a big tank) because they're happier that way. I don't believe for a minute that anyone other than rescuers buy them because they're "sad," I think that the agression and beautiful coloration appeals to consumers. Its like a parakeet; the public sees a color, pretty animal thats fairly low-maintence (if you don't do it right, that is) that would make a nice addition to the house. People don't look at bettas as personalities or feeling individuals, they look at them as a nice decoration, or a "cool," agressive animal that they can feel macho having around. They're really the ultimate "product" - cheap, capable of surviving in menial conditions, appealing to woman and children with their beauty and to men with their agressiveness... they're the all around "american" animal because they look nice, are cheap, and have "balls."

I don't like how bettas are shipped, but I understand that it is for their well being so I'm not opposed to it. What I'm opposed to is the fact that pet stores are selling them at all, but then again, I'm of the opinion that there should only be supply stores and all animal breeders and sellers should need a special liscence after taking an exam to show that they know their stuff and will be ethical. In others words, I probably fit into the "insane animal activist" category, so you may now disregard everything I said. heh.

 

[BettaMomma]

Sorrell - can you point out exactly where I was attacking you in the first post? And where I called it "cruelty"? Cuz I can't seem to figure out where that would be.

I simply made a post on here so people would know what's going on.
I'm sorry if it offends you when people are upset about the way fish are shipped, but everyone has the right to know. If people feel it shoudl be kept a secret, then there must be something wrong.

And for the record, I only have 15 fish but I spend probably 2 hours each day taking care of my fish.

 

[Sorrell]

It was the tone of the first post where you hope to shock us all and open our eyes. Then we see something that all of us who breed and show participate in quite often.

I can say personally that I wouldn't ship to anyone that has freaked out in this thread, I'd hate to see my carefully planned and put together boxes plastered and bashed on a forum

 

[OohFeeshy]

LOL, I'm noticing a Breeders vs. Everyone else thing I vote that we put this to rest and say...
No, its not nice at all, but most fish arive safe and OK.

Now lets all go and argue about the latest tank on Ebay

 

[Haiku]

In others words, I probably fit into the "insane animal activist" category, so you may now disregard everything I said. heh.

I don't think you fit that category, not unless you go around putting pipe bombs in pet stores . It would be ideal if every breeder out there had the high ethical standards you describe. I strongly believe breeding should always be done with the betterment of the breed/species as a goal.

 

[BettaMomma]

I took the photos down and now it'll be just a waitout til this topic gets closed down.