Platy Not Eating, Floating Near Surface

[doraemon213]

Posted here about 2 weeks ago when I noticed a white patch on one side of my platy's gill. Back then my tank was not cycled yet and ammonia was very high and I have lost 2 fish. Two days ago, it is finally cycled and now the levels are ammonia 0, nitrite 0 and nitrate 5.0.
 
Recently that white patch has become red and today he is not eating, just hanging out near the water surface. He is not gulping for air, but also not really swimming around much. What could be happening to him?
 

 

[NeonBlueLeon]

A picture might help us identify the issue.  Fish that go through a fish-in cycle have weakened immune systems and are prone to problems.
 
Is he sideways or tilted at the surface?  Does the discoloration appear to be on the outside or internal?

 

[doraemon213]

It's a little hard to take a picture (tried last time, didn't quite work). He is not sideways, just very slightly tilted with his head closer to the surface (like 10 degrees). The discoloration is right outside his gill on the skin, like at his "cheek".

 

[techen]

It's possible that the ammonia damage two weeks ago are now effecting the fish. There gills will be badly damage due to ammonia and there lifespan shorten a lot. I'd test your water just incase theres another spike or something changed. How long have you been doing a fish-in cycle.

 

[doraemon213]

Fish-in cycle lasted about 3 weeks since I started the tank.
 
Today the red patch on its gill looks bigger than yesterday, spread to almost cover his whole right gill flap. He is not just floating around the surface now, but he is still very inactive. It seems a lot like ammonia poisoning to me after searching online.
 
Since the tank has now cycled (for 3 days so far anyway), will he ever recover? Or is that a permanent damage that he just won't be able to make it? 

 

[the_lock_man]

That's quite quick for a fish-in cycle, so I would keep testing daily. I agree that it's probably the effects of the high ammonia, and if so, it's not likely to get better

 

[Sophie]

Fish-in cycle lasted about 3 weeks since I started the tank.
 
Today the red patch on its gill looks bigger than yesterday, spread to almost cover his whole right gill flap. He is not just floating around the surface now, but he is still very inactive. It seems a lot like ammonia poisoning to me after searching online.
 
Since the tank has now cycled (for 3 days so far anyway), will he ever recover? Or is that a permanent damage that he just won't be able to make it? 

 
The first thing Ammonia does is attack the gills and affect the respiratory of the fish.
 
As far as I've read, Ammonia burns can heal but it takes time, plenty of clean fresh water (so keep those water changes regular) and just hope he recovers. It depends how long the exposure was, I've been faced with a high Nitrite spike when changing over tanks and entered a "mini cycle" - thankfully I caught it before I lost any fish but my Clowns still showed signs of red gills for a couple of weeks, they're back to normal now a month and a half later but I will forever feel guilty about what it may have done to them.

 

[the_lock_man]

Not wishing to derail the topic, but nitrite doesn't burn like ammonia does. Instead, it prevents the haemoglobin in the blood from transporting oxygen (hence the nickname Brown Blood Disease, the blood isn't turned red by the oxygen), effectively suffocating them. This is why fish will often gasp at the surface, because they are aware of a lack of oxygen.

 

[Sophie]

Not wishing to derail the topic, but nitrite doesn't burn like ammonia does. Instead, it prevents the haemoglobin in the blood from transporting oxygen (hence the nickname Brown Blood Disease, the blood isn't turned red by the oxygen), effectively suffocating them. This is why fish will often gasp at the surface, because they are aware of a lack of oxygen.

 
To sate my curiousity - what exactly is Ammonia "burning"? What is it doing?
And Nitrite effectively stops the gills from being able to absorb oxygen from the water?

 

[the_lock_man]

 

Not wishing to derail the topic, but nitrite doesn't burn like ammonia does. Instead, it prevents the haemoglobin in the blood from transporting oxygen (hence the nickname Brown Blood Disease, the blood isn't turned red by the oxygen), effectively suffocating them. This is why fish will often gasp at the surface, because they are aware of a lack of oxygen.

 
To sate my curiousity - what exactly is Ammonia "burning"? What is it doing?
And Nitrite effectively stops the gills from being able to absorb oxygen from the water?
 

 
It's a chemical burn, exactly the same as if you spilt caustic soda or an acid on your hand. It will also be absorbed by the gills, and burn the insides as well.
 
Regarding nitrite, yes that's basically right - the oxygen will enter the gills, but cannot enter the bloodstream because the haemoglobin cannot hold it and transport it. If you have high nitrite, but cannot do a water change to remove it, dosing salt to a concentration around 9 or 10 times that of the nitrite will sort it. Salt enters the bloodstream through the same part of the gills as nitrite, and therefore prevents the nitrite from entering.

 

[Sophie]

Amazing - hence why you see fish rapidly breathing, pale and off colour when there's ammonia and nitrite present..

 

[doraemon213]

Thanks for all the explanations here. Unfortunately the platy died the 2nd night after he stopped eating. R.I.P
 
I just have to hope that the rest of the fish will be able to recover.
 
At least now that I have got the experience and it will never happen again!

 

[Sophie]

Thanks for all the explanations here. Unfortunately the platy died the 2nd night after he stopped eating. R.I.P
 
I just have to hope that the rest of the fish will be able to recover.
 
At least now that I have got the experience and it will never happen again!

Most of the time, you never realise you're doing something wrong unless it goes wrong - I've learnt so much from mistakes, so have 99% on this forum too. You're not alone hehe

 

[NeonBlueLeon]

I am definitely guilty of doing a fish-in cycle when first starting up in this hobby.  Info about the nitrogen cycle should be plastered everywhere in pet stores/LFS.