Plants

[swampey]

My tank has been setup for afew days and very thing seems to be working OK.... the only thing I havent done is yet is find and install a decent ornament, nor have I place any greenry in the tank - ie plants

My question to all those in the know - is it better to cycle the tank with or with out plants ?

 

[waterdrop]

It sounds like you're getting ready for a fishless cycle. A fishless cycle can be performed with or without live plants and there are many factors that might influence your decision about whether to have them or not.

The factor that probably has the most technical merit is the issue of algae. A fishless cycle introduces a lot of ammonia to the tank and since ammonia plus light is the formula for algae, providing the needed light for a live plant will also complete the necessary requirements for algae. If all the conditions are right, algae can be quite a problem in a fishless cycling tank by the end. The substrate, decorations and plants can all get quite choked.

For this reason, some make the choice to fishless cycle in the dark, even taping two layers of black plastic all around the tank and not lighting it. Whether light or lighting patterns have an effect on the growth speed of our two species of desired bacteria was not something that was studied in the small set of scientific literature that exists but it seems that any effect is small and most seem to feel that growth rates in complete darkness are fine.

The opposite extreme of black-wrapping a tank is the practical situation where you or the other people in the household really want to see the tank and anticipate the day when it will be ready to be made beautiful with plants and fish. If this is the case then the most important thing to think about is to greatly minimize the hours of light. Most setups we discuss here are best left out of direct or high sunlight, as this obviously is an invitation to algae and excess heat, but its also a good idea to only minimally use the lights, when you are there and want to look, while a tank is cycling. Some say to start with only perhaps 4 hours of light per day if you have a few plants in there. Good circulation will help too.

Another almost insignificant thought about live plants is that for the fishless cycler who doesn't have access to any mature media there's at least the psychological thought that the live plants may carry in a few of the desired bacteria to add a little to the tiny numbers of seed cells present in the tap water. Its never been supported by observation but at least its a nice thought during the long weeks!

Given the above discussion, it becomes easier to understand the action that some people take, which is to buy some bunches of the cheapest of hardy bunch plants, like elodea/anacharis, and just plan to remove them later as the tank gets established and nicer plants are introduced. Its important though to keep an eye on all live plants and remove those that are not going to make it, before they add unnecessarily to the ammonia load.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[IceyBlack]

Ooops..I think I made another mistake

I set up our new tank, put the sand in the bottom, water in and treated and then the plants..then the boiled bogwood and rocks..it seemed to be fine and the water seemed to be clearing nicely....then returned after 4 day break to find the side of the tank a green and sludgy mess... with green and black particles all over the sand and most distressingly the plants...

It seems reading this that I should not have left he tank lights on - I did so as I had read that live plants needed light and I felt to start them off without it would be bad....

Any idea what the black stuff on the plant leaves could be?? - it wipes off.....
Once the algae is in the sand - how do I clean it?? This is important to me as if I need to change substrate or do anything else major it should really be done before the tank begins to cycle properly

 

[OldMan47]

Try cutting the lights to only 4 hours a day for the next couple of weeks Iceyblack. That should slow or stop the algae growth and be enough to keep your plants alive. The light timing can be gradually increased after that to maybe 8 hours at the most. Cleaning up the mess is just a part of looking after your tank so just do it. There is no need to go around breaking down a tank just to clean it.

 

[IceyBlack]

Try cutting the lights to only 4 hours a day for the next couple of weeks Iceyblack. That should slow or stop the algae growth and be enough to keep your plants alive. The light timing can be gradually increased after that to maybe 8 hours at the most. Cleaning up the mess is just a part of looking after your tank so just do it. There is no need to go around breaking down a tank just to clean it.

Thanks,
Does all of the black stuff on my plants sound normal to you?
Will it hurt them? - don't know whether just to leave them as they are or clean them (I'm concious that if I clean them I need to put my mucky old hand into the tank to do it - as the sponge cleaner thing won't do round their leaves - if it's okay to leave them to sort themselves out I will, and I will certainly cut the lighting back as you suggest.
Thanks again

 

[OldMan47]

The black stuff is probably black beard algae if it is not slimy. If it is slimy it might well be BGA, blue / green algae. BGA can look black if you get a heavy layer of it. I would remove the layer of algae from the plant leaves with a sponge type cleaner to give the plant a chance to get enough light to its leaves.

 

[IceyBlack]

The black stuff is probably black beard algae if it is not slimy. If it is slimy it mat well be BGA, blue / green algae. BGA can look black if you get a heavy layer of it. I would remove the layer of algae from the plant leaves with a sponge type cleaner to give the plant a chance to get enough light to its leaves.
[/quote

Thanks
I did a post on the plant section too - they suggested diatomic algae - but the searches I've done for that suggest that is more common when setting up a saltwater tank.
I have wiped the stuff off (it's like soot) and reduced light levels, and hopefully that will keep on top of it.
Glad I haven't got fish in yet and only have the plants to worry about

 

[Dave Spencer]

My question to all those in the know - is it better to cycle the tank with or with out plants ?

It appears that your tank has got off to a really bad start. Have a read of this.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showfo...r=all&st=50

Personally, I would recommend that you take all the plants out, and carry on cycling in the dark, then add some healthy plants at the end. Unless, of course, you want to commit to a planted tank that means you don`t have to cycle.

Dave.

 

[IceyBlack]

My question to all those in the know - is it better to cycle the tank with or with out plants ?

It appears that your tank has got off to a really bad start. Have a read of this.

[URL="http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showfo...r=all&st=50"]http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showfo...r=all&st=50[/URL]

Personally, I would recommend that you take all the plants out, and carry on cycling in the dark, then add some healthy plants at the end. Unless, of course, you want to commit to a planted tank that means you don`t have to cycle.

Dave.

Not sure what link you are directing me to on the forums Dave?
I've seen the black algae thread...and am confident mine is not the brushy type thingy ...
I'll plod on with my reduced light and cleaning and see where that takes me - I'm not prepared to throw the plants out as once I have got rid of the sooty, dusty gunk they look healthy - I did that last night and cleaned the tank and stirred the gravel and things look much better today

My question to all those in the know - is it better to cycle the tank with or with out plants ?

It appears that your tank has got off to a really bad start. Have a read of this.

<a href="http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showfo...r=all&st=50" target="_blank">http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showfo...r=all&st=50</a>

Personally, I would recommend that you take all the plants out, and carry on cycling in the dark, then add some healthy plants at the end. Unless, of course, you want to commit to a planted tank that means you don`t have to cycle.

Dave.

ps....now realised the link.....

Not sure what link you are directing me to on the forums Dave?
I've seen the black algae thread...and am confident mine is not the brushy type thingy ...
I'll plod on with my reduced light and cleaning and see where that takes me - I'm not prepared to throw the plants out as once I have got rid of the sooty, dusty gunk they look healthy - I did that last night and cleaned the tank and stirred the gravel and things look much better today

 

[Dave Spencer]

Whoops! here is the link.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=299827

Don`t cycle with plants.

Dave.