Phosphates

[FoundMoney]

Today I found a new lfs, that is closer to my house than the one I usually go to. While this one wasn't as "slick" as the other one I usually go to, this store seemed to keep their tanks in good order. I did notice one tank that had a dead fish in it, but only one, and from time to time I see a dead or dying fish in the fancier shop.

In any event I started talking to the owner about fish and I brought up that I am having trouble with hair algae. When I told him that my water perameters were all in good range (0, 0, 5, 7.0) he said I might have a phosphate problem, especially since he said he has found phosphates in the tap water. I asked if he had a test kit for phosphates. He told me they were unreliable and just said I should use a phosphate remover in my tank. I told him I would consider it but I don't like to add anything without researching it.

So my questions to you:

1) Are there effective and reliable test kits for phosphates available?

2) The phosphate reducing product he has is somehting called "phosguard" (don't quote me on that and it consisted of little white balls that you put in a filter bag and stick in your filter. Has anyone ever heard of this and should I try adding this to the filter?

Incidentally, the guy also told me I should use carbon in my filter, which according to many people here is not at all necessary. Take that for what it's worth.

 

[iggy01]

So my questions to you:

1) Are there effective and reliable test kits for phosphates available?

2) The phosphate reducing product he has is somehting called "phosguard" (don't quote me on that and it consisted of little white balls that you put in a filter bag and stick in your filter. Has anyone ever heard of this and should I try adding this to the filter?

This link may help you with choosing a Phosphate Test Kit

I've never used Phosguard, but do use Rowaphos which seems to do the job ok!

 

[FoundMoney]

Thanks for the links iggy and it seems like the lfs owner was somewhat correct. It is hard to test for organic phosphates but those introduced through the tapwater, inorganic phosphates, will be detected with a good kit.

It also seems that using the PhosGuard or other phosphate removing medium will be beneficial to the tank.

 

[FoundMoney]

I just checked the water works' website and they add poly-orthophosphate to the drinking water to protect against corrosion. So it seems that the combination of the phosphates, the additional light in my tank (I went from 1.7 to 2.3), and additional fertilizer (I discontinued that for now), have combined to cause my hair algae problem. It therefore seems reasonable to add some sort of phosphate filtration, as well as to interrupt the light cycle and stop fertilizing, to retard the growth of the algae.

 

[Aulonochromis]

You should test the level of phosphate. Plants require phosphate to grow, and if you add a phosphate sponge, you will starve them out. What is your nitrate reading? Nitrates between 10 and 20ppm and phosphate at 1ppm seems to be the ideal levels for plants. If you have enough thriving plants in your tank they will outcompete algae and it will go away. If you starve your plants, you will definitely have algae. The key to keeping nice plants is keeping your parameters balanced.

What ferts are you adding? What size is the tank and what plants are in it? What is your water change routine like?

I have found adding diy Co2 and fertilizing my plants properly has cleared up 95% of the algae that I had. Phosphate on it's own does not cause algae, believe it or not, when I started dosing phosphate the algae cleared up. I never would have thought that, but after reading about Tom Barr's estimative index, I tried it and it worked.

 

[FoundMoney]

Thanks for your reply. As you can see by my sig, I have a 30 gallon tank with two Amazon swords, vallisneria grass, anacharis, hornwort, some struggling dwarf sag covered in staghorn or green hair algae (not sure which it is), and a small java fern. What I've read so far about phosphates is that you can test for inorganic phosphates (such as they put in my tap water) but not organic phosphates that result from tank waste and debris. So if that's the case what will the test kit tell me? It seems like it would only tell me the amount of phosphate I'm adding to the water through the tap.

My nitrate level is about 5 ppm. Some of the plants in my tank seem to do much better than others. The anacharis is growing very well and has tripled in the last two months. The val does alright and already I have some new plants but the long leaves at the top are getting covered in algae and I have been trimming them back. The dwarf sag basically does nothing, as it is so small and literally covered. I pull back the leaves as they get covered with algae and new ones sprout up but they eventually get covered as well.

I am (was) using a liquid micronutrient fertilizer but I didn't really know how to dose it. The instructions said "one to three capfuls, one to three times per week, depending on how heavily the tank is planted". I used to add 2 or 3 capfuls to new water. It was about the time I started using the fertilizer and added an extra 20 watts (from 1.7 to 2.3 wpg) that I started seeing the staghorn/hair algae start to grow. Since then I have cut back on the light (interrupted the light cycle) and stopped the fertilizer. I do a 5 gallon (16.7 %) water change at least once a week, often twice per week. I vacuum the gravel every two weeks or so and I clean the filter out once a month.

What brand test kit do you use to test phosphates and who is Tom Barr? links?

 

[Aulonochromis]

Tom Barr is an aquatic plant guru. His site requires paid membership for most things.

http/www.barrreport.com/forums/


But he is often at this forum giving advice, along with a bunch of other knowledgeable plant people. I suggest posting there, they are really helpful and know more than I do, I'm still learning.

http/www.plantedtank.net/forums/

Phosphates caused by tank waste and debris are easy to control, with weekly 50% water changes. Your nitrates are on the low side, but since you are not adding CO2, I'm no expert, so I don't know if you should add nitrogen or not, but I would say it wouldn't hurt to get them up around 10ppm. The instructions on your micros are pretty vague, but since your tank is low light and no CO2, I would only add the minimal amount.

Here's what I add:

I do a 50% water change once a week. On that day I add 1 tsp. of potassium nitrate (kno3, got it at a pharmacy) and 15 drops of Fleet Enema (it's phosphate). On the next day I add a capful of Seachem Flourish for micros. I add nothing for 2 days. The day after that I dose another capful of flourish. On the 7th day I repeat the process. This is a modified version of the Barr index, but my tank is not high light, and through experimentation, this seems to be what works.

I don't have any test kits. The point of doing the large water changes is to reset everything, so there are no build ups of nutrients. So, in theory, once you figure out what you need to dose, you won't have to test paramters with the big changes. I've just been doing it by the seat of my pants and got lucky. Obviously if you have significant phosphate in your tapwater, you won't need to add P, on day one, but if your plantload starts using significant p, you may need to dose between changes.

 

[FoundMoney]

Thanks for the links and tips!