People Giving Bad Advice

[JustKia]

Nobody said it was the mods responsibility to check the advice given was correct

Google is one of my best buddies, but not for everyone. Very often the person doing the "research" has ended up here as a result, to then be told "research it" is a bit pointless as that's what they've just done (at least in their opinion).

I also said nothing about a group of people who say "I'm right, end of".
I suggested a system that had worked very well in another place (and I appreciate and agree that what works in one place won't neccessarily work in another) where people were nominated (not sought after) due to their consistent, positive contributions, not neccessarily because they had posted a lot and certainly not because they had a narrow minded, my way or no way approach.
It's clear that you don't understand the concept of the suggestion I made. I don't care if you agree or not with my suggestion - that's entirely up to you, but what I do object to is your twisting of the concept - making out that it's about an elitist group who force their narrow minded opinions on others.

I saw an issue. I raised the issue and instead of just whining about not liking something I also made a suggestion as to one possible way in which the issue might be handled.
In a perfect world everyone would be the master of research, but then that would make this a boring forum because every post would be "look at my perfect fish".

Theres two separate points getting merged here.
1 is the issue I raised that there is a current flux of people giving poor, inaccurate or inappropriate advice. I'm not going to go into real life examples because I'm not going to point fingers - not the purpose of my thread.
2 is the suggestion I made as to ONE possible way the issue could be handled. There may be 10 or 1000 ways to handle it and one of those ways is to ignore it. At the end of the day I'm not about to say "ooh I'm leaving because you didn't do this or that". I'm really not fussed which way it's handled, or if at all - it's not my forum, and I appreciate the mods and admins for what they do to enable this to be here.

 

[Inchworm]

no M8(whatever that means). this is a dedicated fish forum. the advice given, is the views of the poster. its up to YOU to check the validity of any advice.

I agree with you there, boboboy, but as we all know, this is the case even with advice given in real life.

to me, this whole thread is about people not wanting to do research on their hobby.

On this statement, I disagree. Posting on the forum is a legitimate way to do research. Asking questions and getting opinions is a good way to prepare to make your own decisions and the more opinions received, the wider your range of possibilities can be. There is rarely just one right way of doing things in this hobby.

One way that members can make their posts more helpful to others is to qualify some of the things they write about. There is a world of difference between saying, "I've heard that..." and "When I tried that..." While both might be good responses, either one of them might open a different range of follow up questions that can lead to a suitable solution to an OP's problem.

 

[Darkstar]

Why does this issue keep coming up, and isn't it interesting how it's always posted by people who give the impression that they already know the difference between good and bad advice rather than it being put forward by someone who's actually taken the bad advice and acted on it. In other words, why do people feel the need to demand protection measures for others when the others aren't asking for any protection!?

People receive good and bad advice all day every day in all aspects of life and they do fine...i don't see why posting on the internet requires special rules to protect them from making bad choices....it's how we learn in life.

So please stop assuming just because someone is new to the hobby that they're by default retarded too.

 

[raptorrex]

to me, this whole thread is about people not wanting to do research on their hobby.

On this statement, I disagree. Posting on the forum is a legitimate way to do research. Asking questions and getting opinions is a good way to prepare to make your own decisions and the more opinions received, the wider your range of possibilities can be. There is rarely just one right way of doing things in this hobby.

One way that members can make their posts more helpful to others is to qualify some of the things they write about. There is a world of difference between saying, "I've heard that..." and "When I tried that..." While both might be good responses, either one of them might open a different range of follow up questions that can lead to a suitable solution to an OP's problem.

guess i am not making my point. the forum is, simply, another place to research. not some Bible for the hobby. so yes as part of your research, all good. to assume the advice is, or should be, correct. seems to me, to be missing the point. lets face it LFS, who should know, dont claim, often, to be experts.


as for "bad advice", just who is the arbiter? one man's bad advice, can be a god send to others. i, personally notice that REAL experts, like nmonks Dave Spencer, and others. will have no truck with this sort of "expert" ranking. and these are the people who should have the moniker. experience tells me, those who chase the accolade, invariably, don't deserve it.

I'm a member of several digital forums, on them i have big rep points, and high post counts. so I'm a high posting member with high rep. however, when you look at it. apart from some for sorting exchanges of PS3's via Sony. most of the rest are for people agreeing with me in General sections. but noobs don't know that, indeed only mods and myself can see how my rep was built. so what use is the rep, when judging the validity of advice i give? lol, I'll answer that NONE

 

[JenCliBee]

sorry m8 but how can that actuallt be?, isnt this a dedicated fish forum?, isnt the advice when you come to a dedicated fish forum expected to be correct?, isnt that what the posters have done?, come here to check for advice from fellow fishkeepers?

I dont see any logic in what youve just said tbh,
the hobby may well be an art rather than science for the individual fishkeeper but science is still the main part.

At the end of the day wrong advice in general is wrong, isnt a factual answer given better than actual experience in most cases?.

no M8(whatever that means). this is a dedicated fish forum. the advice given, is the views of the poster. its up to YOU to check the validity of any advice. and without doubt, nothing to do with the Mods.


to me, this whole thread is about people not wanting to do research on their hobby. rather just mimicking the actions of others. or, and i dont think it was the intention, to crate a group that can say "I'm right", whatever others say. neither will help people do "better" at the hobby.

M8 = mate.... it was a response to not make my reply be harsh in anyways shape or form, something i think got lost on you.

I can't mimic inchworm enough but go and do some reaserch throygh google on 1 particular fish and see several pages and read what they say. I bet at least 3 of them will give conflicting advice on that particular fish but yet you said do research. What would be the point trawling the internet to get advice which is neither helpfull and often conflicting?

The point of a forum is a research base, why is it here if it wasnt, just to show pictures?, just to say hi to other members?, NO it's here for that research you are claiming people are not looking for.

You miss the concept of research completely, it's not just having a read on what someone has said, it's about getting experience...current experience of how people have either delt with a particular problem or how currently the particular fish you are 'researching' is ment to be kept.

As in any field, new and better ways are developing and learnt about everyday, some of the info thats given on a website could be years old and many actuall details may need updating leaving the person doing research ONLY in the way you suggest been a little pointless, i would have though the best way of researching anything is to find the most up to date info?, and where better to get that, than from a busy daily changing/updated forum?.

The OP was mearly suggesting a way for (inexperienced keepers)to know that once a member in a status group replies it could be seen as (not so much gospel) but actually accurate to cuurent day recommendations.

 

[JustKia]

as for "bad advice", just who is the arbiter? one man's bad advice, can be a god send to others. i, personally notice that REAL experts, like nmonks Dave Spencer, and others. will have no truck with this sort of "expert" ranking. and these are the people who should have the moniker. experience tells me, those who chase the accolade, invariably, don't deserve it.

Why do you keep trying to twist this into "experts" - no-one said anything about experts, merely people who consistently contribute in a positive way.
Again, I say, nothing to do with post count - a high post count does not mean your posts are useful, simply that one posts a lot.
And again, the only people would be able to "chase the accolade" would be to contribute in a consistenly positive manner - and that wouldn't then be a bad thing surely.
If someone was made a supporter (not expert - I really don't know where you keep pulling that from) and then ceased to be helpful, started acting "holier than thou" they could be stripped of their supporter role just as easily.

Trying to twist the concept doesn't really acheive anything. you don't need to twist it to disagree it. Disagree with it as it stands, rather than trying to twist it into something it's not.

 

[raptorrex]

sorry m8 but how can that actuallt be?, isnt this a dedicated fish forum?, isnt the advice when you come to a dedicated fish forum expected to be correct?, isnt that what the posters have done?, come here to check for advice from fellow fishkeepers?

I dont see any logic in what youve just said tbh,
the hobby may well be an art rather than science for the individual fishkeeper but science is still the main part.


M8 = mate.... it was a response to not make my reply be harsh in anyways shape or form, something i think got lost on you.

The point of a forum is a research base, why is it here if it wasnt, just to show pictures?, just to say hi to other members?, NO it's here for that research you are claiming people are not looking for.



You miss the concept of research completely, it's not just having a read on what someone has said, it's about getting experience...current experience of how people have either dealt with a particular problem or how currently the particular fish you are 'researching' is meant to be kept.

AHH, we tend to use english. it help if you can understand the things people write(). it was lost on me, because its not from the English language.

and, where i come from, unless you are good friends, mate, used as you did, is derogatory. see what i mean about understanding?


i see, reading is a problem for you too. this is ONE place to do research. not the be all and end all. I said people avoid doing research, expecting to get correct information, from one place. truth is you need advice from many such sources. i spend as much time in the Reference Library as i do on here. STILL. but those too lazy, think one stop is enough. could this, not, be why there are so few experts?

research has nothing to do with experience. its what it says, Research. you gain experience from practice, not simply from following, what others do. (you can say, after some time, your experience seems to agree, with them though) i kingly suggest you look up the meaning of research. before suggesting i don't know what it is.

what you seem to want is a place you can come, read what somebody says. and then take it away as Experience??? sure in the knowledge that your advice will be correct. even though you have no experience of that subject.

it does not work that way. if you are told something it's, your responsibility to ensure its correct. that's why after reading it, you Research how correct it is.

 

[OohFeeshy]

Why do you keep trying to twist this into "experts" - no-one said anything about experts, merely people who consistently contribute in a positive way.

'Experts' is probably a bit of an overstatement, but works fairly well as a term to mean 'people what know lots of things about fish'- which is the same as 'people who contribute in a positive way'. In any case, if a post is answered by one of this group, the OP/other people viewing the thread are surely going to naturally assume they know what they're talking about- even, and this is actually quite likely- that they've never kept that species before, or that what they have to say isn't necessarily right.

 

[JenCliBee]

sorry m8 but how can that actuallt be?, isnt this a dedicated fish forum?, isnt the advice when you come to a dedicated fish forum expected to be correct?, isnt that what the posters have done?, come here to check for advice from fellow fishkeepers?

I dont see any logic in what youve just said tbh,
the hobby may well be an art rather than science for the individual fishkeeper but science is still the main part.


M8 = mate.... it was a response to not make my reply be harsh in anyways shape or form, something i think got lost on you.

The point of a forum is a research base, why is it here if it wasnt, just to show pictures?, just to say hi to other members?, NO it's here for that research you are claiming people are not looking for.



You miss the concept of research completely, it's not just having a read on what someone has said, it's about getting experience...current experience of how people have either dealt with a particular problem or how currently the particular fish you are 'researching' is meant to be kept.

AHH, we tend to use english. it help if you can understand the things people write(). it was lost on me, because its not from the English language.

and, where i come from, unless you are good friends, mate, used as you did, is derogatory. see what i mean about understanding?


i see, reading is a problem for you too. this is ONE place to do research. not the be all and end all. I said people avoid doing research, expecting to get correct information, from one place. truth is you need advice from many such sources. i spend as much time in the Reference Library as i do on here. STILL. but those too lazy, think one stop is enough. could this, not, be why there are so few experts?

research has nothing to do with experience. its what it says, Research. you gain experience from practice, not simply from following, what others do. (you can say, after some time, your experience seems to agree, with them though) i kingly suggest you look up the meaning of research. before suggesting i don't know what it is.

what you seem to want is a place you can come, read what somebody says. and then take it away as Experience??? sure in the knowledge that your advice will be correct. even though you have no experience of that subject.

it does not work that way. if you are told something it's, your responsibility to ensure its correct. that's why after reading it, you Research how correct it is.

To start with, mate(m8) is a nice way of greeting somebody, which in terms of been polite goes along way, if you dont like it and you feel offended by it then really thats your problem and not mine.

Secondly, please dont tell me reading is a problem with me, if you look at the part i quoted it was a reply to that not a message that either came while i was posting or at the same time i sent the last message.

In terms of what youve said, reserach is exactly that, research. This is a form of research and going away and checking web page after webpage is also research but ill mirror what i said, go google a particular fish and see the conflicting advice given around the net. mearly stated that up to date research from a cuurent up to date source..ie forum is far better than a potential for wrong out of date info. You could say all info on here is wrong, some is, some is not, but i would rather come here for infoand be able to actually ask questions back than go to a website and except the advice as gospel.

It seems to me your here on this thread to argue and basically your doing just what is mentioned previosly about forcing your opinion, your opinion yes, way and means to get it across and been arogant and nasty isnt the best way. Have i in anyways to you?, have i actually been personal like you have in reference to my reading?, NO so dont do it to me.

I couldnt care less to be honest where people get there info from, if they chose a forum then i commend them for actually been big enough to ask for advice, big enough to admit they have a problem.

Using a website that cant reply to your problems is a little pointless when the info 'could be piotentially wrong'.

At least with a forum you have got varying views, you have got people helping in real-time, you have got that willing to help as much as the posters are willing to, im afraid you dont get that from a website, you get a generic way of dealing with a particular problem.

 

[Inchworm]

This has been a good discussion so far. Please let's not ruin it by making unfriendly off topic chatter.

 

[BryceHockey]

To give the perspective of a newer member, or at least one with far fewer posts than most in this thread, I don't think that it is necessary by any means to label people. It is pretty easy to find out if a member knows what they are talking about.

For example, members like Waterdrop and Oldman help out new members with cycling and other questions. If you read through any threads that they post in, you'll see that the advice given effectively helps the newbie, and it is obvious that they have a good deal of experience in the hobby. On the flip side, there are a few people on here that I don't particularly trust, not because they gave me bad advice, but their post count is high while their experience doesn't seem to be quite as great. Just because they have over a thousand posts means nothing, anyone could do this simply by commenting on threads all day!

One more thing to remember (not sure if it's been said already, I didn't read the whole thread), is that just because a member has a low post count or is newer to the board, obviously means nothing relating to their experience. There was one member I saw a post of that was new and hardly had been registered for long. However their post was very knowledgeable, and it turns out they ran a LFS. If some sort of label was used, their advice would be disregarded.

I think that the best thing about this forum is that you have so many opinions and people of different fish keeping styles. When you ask a question, you just have to use your best judgment to decide who you want to trust.

 

[JustKia]

Isn't it kind of pointless that this is now degrading into a thread of comtemptousness?
I find it unbelievable that some have to resort to insults when they don't have anything further to contribute.

At the end of the day my suggestion said nothing of experts and "know-it-alls", it said nothing of any one individual having rights to tell everyone that a particular task has to be done their way, and certainly nothing that one individual would be a supporter in all areas - of course they wouldn't, that's simply un realistic.

One more thing to remember (not sure if it's been said already, I didn't read the whole thread), is that just because a member has a low post count or is newer to the board, obviously means nothing relating to their experience. There was one member I saw a post of that was new and hardly had been registered for long. However their post was very knowledgeable, and it turns out they ran a LFS. If some sort of label was used, their advice would be disregarded.

Post count is, as you say, irrelevant. But the whole point is that someone's opinion wouldn't be disregarded because they are "new to the forum".

 

[Inchworm]

Closed at the request of the OP.