Panworld 40px Pump Getting Extremely Hot

[nivisec]

Hello all, I'm very new to the filter system building, but I researched for a long time before I started. I even consulted a plumber for tips on building my system this past time. However, after finishing it, I am getting extremely bad results The pump starts out fine, pumps fine, then after a while gets extremely hot (a few hours). I shut it off after it had heated the water to 82 degrees on its own. I know this is the exception it would seem, as PanWorld is supposed to not add any heat to the water as far as I've read on reviews.

I even installed a bypass for the pump to send excess water back to itself to keep from getting hot, at the plumber's advice...Even with it fully open it still does the same thing. Now, the only thing I know that could be causing this is back pressure (or a bad pump), but I don't understand much about it.

I hope you guys can give some input, as I've been trying to get this thing up for months in what little time I can devote (two previous failures on poor design layout). I'm very close to giving it a throw into the back yard.

• My setup consists of a lifegard mechanical, chemical, heater module, and fluidized bed filter.
• First off, yes, that is a power wire to the left of the pictures, but it is dead. I removed a base board heater and it is just waiting for me to pull it out from under the house.
• Secondly, this is all being done on a 20 gal tank. This system is actually for a 65 gal I plan on buying in the near future if I ever get it working.
• To the far left side is a drain for me to drain all three modules easily (learned from failed attempt #1, a drain is a 100% need).
• The "T" coming out of the pump goes into the system and the bypass I was talking about.
• The entire system is based on 3/4".
• The main input and output tubes are 1" (3/4" inner diameter), 5ft long each, and are connected to the customflow thing that lifegard makes. Only the standard one, not the full version they sell. This could be limiting input or output I guess, but I don't see how especially with a bypass to catch it.
• The mechanical module shows only 5 PSI when the bypass is totally closed. It is loaded with a few bio-balls and a bit of crushed coral (my water is almost 100% without hardness from the tap).
• The chemical module is loaded with 250ml of seachem purigen into two seperate bags...It's pretty tightly packed, so this could be something in the mix.
• Heater module has a 300W heater in it.
• The fluidized bed is turned off currently. I slightly cracked the check valve on failed attempt #2, so I'm waiting on a new one (pvc glue didn't hold it sadly).

I really appreciate any help, as I'm almost pulling my hair out trying to get this working...I just really don't understand much about it all I guess and it's so hard to find information on it.

 

[2day]

That pump looks so sophisticated! lol

Does it actually filter the water? I only ask as i have never seen one like that before...

Will be interesting if someone knows what to do!

God luck though in getting it up and running

 

[SkiFletch]

Ok well this is an easy one. Simple answer, too much restriction . This Panworld pump should be treated as a BIG pump, because it is. Time for a quick lesson in centrifugal pump operation:

Rule #1, have the plumbing on the inlet side of the pump as short and as big of a diameter as possible. Pressure restrictions from either too long of tubing or too thin of tubing will greatly decrease the pump's ability to flow water, increase stress/friction on the pump, and increase heat. I'd suggest having the pump nearly directly behind the tank and using AT LEAST 1" ID tubing on the inlet side.

Rule #2, never, repeat, NEVER have a right angle fitting as the first fitting on the outlet of a pump. Again, this puts stress and backpressure on the pump and ultimately leads to heat. If a right angle bend is required, consider using flexible tubing or "sweep" fittings. PVC Spa Flex tubing is your friend in this area. As an aside, while having a right-angle fitting as the first thing on the high pressure side of the pump is really bad, extensive use of right angle turns is also bad. You want to minimize right angle fittings as much as possible.

I have to be honest, I have little experience with those modules you're using there, but they might propose too much restriction in and of themselves to make this work with the panworld pump. Does the manufacturer give any reccomendations as to what pumps to use to operate them, or any information on their pressure drop?

 

[nivisec]

Ok well this is an easy one. Simple answer, too much restriction . This Panworld pump should be treated as a BIG pump, because it is. Time for a quick lesson in centrifugal pump operation:

Rule #1, have the plumbing on the inlet side of the pump as short and as big of a diameter as possible. Pressure restrictions from either too long of tubing or too thin of tubing will greatly decrease the pump's ability to flow water, increase stress/friction on the pump, and increase heat. I'd suggest having the pump nearly directly behind the tank and using AT LEAST 1" ID tubing on the inlet side.

Rule #2, never, repeat, NEVER have a right angle fitting as the first fitting on the outlet of a pump. Again, this puts stress and backpressure on the pump and ultimately leads to heat. If a right angle bend is required, consider using flexible tubing or "sweep" fittings. PVC Spa Flex tubing is your friend in this area. As an aside, while having a right-angle fitting as the first thing on the high pressure side of the pump is really bad, extensive use of right angle turns is also bad. You want to minimize right angle fittings as much as possible.

I have to be honest, I have little experience with those modules you're using there, but they might propose too much restriction in and of themselves to make this work with the panworld pump. Does the manufacturer give any reccomendations as to what pumps to use to operate them, or any information on their pressure drop?

Thank you very much for responding. I guess I was treating this too much like house plumbing (no pumps for me there), maybe I should switch to using some Pex or the PVC flex

There's not a whole lot of info on the Lifegard modules available, other than word of mouth, but I don't think they restrict much. 3/4" is their smallest opening, and they do insert into each other, but I didn't want to PVC glue anything until I was 100% sure. Lifegard makes their own pumps, but I was recommended to stay away

I'm going to dismantle the whole thing and restart it.

Last question, would having a higher water volume help as well? Like if I added a 20gal sump tank to it?

 

[SkiFletch]

Depends on the height... If the sump is relatively close in height to the display tank it'll work much better having the panworld draw directly off the sump tank. But then of course you need to deal with an overflow setup to supply the sump which can get a little complicated. A closed loop system drawing off very large inlet tubes is a little simpler to construct.

 

[nivisec]

Depends on the height... If the sump is relatively close in height to the display tank it'll work much better having the panworld draw directly off the sump tank. But then of course you need to deal with an overflow setup to supply the sump which can get a little complicated. A closed loop system drawing off very large inlet tubes is a little simpler to construct.

I'm having the 65 gal custom made whenever I buy it, so I was considering having an overflow built into it. If I don't do the overflow I was going to do at least a few bulkheads drilled into the back for inlet and outlet. Now I know to do a 1" on those if I don't do the overflow (I would have done 3/4" for sure). I'm doing a full home renovation pretty much and talked my wife into letting me inset a tank or two into one of the walls with a storage room behind them. So, I will eventually have a lot of room that isn't visible to anyone to work with...

I went out and bought some pex pipe and click fittings earlier to try out...Man those fittings are expensive, and I can't use the brass ones, but it'll be worth the extra money just to see this thing work.

Another quick question, do you think it would matter/help/hurt if I made a mounting for the pump and turned it sideways to allow for the water to flow directly straight into the modules? I figure the impeller is designed to flow the water straight into a single direction, but I didn't know if it would always want to go upward or something...

 

[nivisec]

That pump looks so sophisticated! lol

Does it actually filter the water? I only ask as i have never seen one like that before...

Will be interesting if someone knows what to do!

God luck though in getting it up and running

Just to give you some info on it, I'm guessing you aren't just referring to the pump, but also the modules. The design is for water to head through the pump, into the first module that has a pleat (like a swimming pool filter if you've seen one) with some bio balls inside of that (and some free floating crushed coral I will replace every so often to maintain PH, KH, and GH).

After the first module it moves into the second which is a tube that causes the water to be forced through a few mesh bags filled with a media to remove impurities (in my case Seachem Purigen, but it could be carbon if I wanted). BTW, if you haven't tried the Purigen, get some...It is very, very good at clearing out the water. I rate it well over carbon and doesn't involve any phosphate release.

After that it would hit a drainage area (to easily drain them when I screw up) and into the heater module. This is just a little thing that provides a constant water flow over a large, but normal, aquarium heater. Basically, I no longer have to keep the heater in the tank.

After the heater module, it passes to the outlet and to a fluidized bed filter. The bed filter keeps a bunch of media (sand in this case with a bunch of random sizes) in a constant state of floating, which allows bacteria to colonize it very well. I have to control the flow going to the bed filter, else it would shoot the sand up into the tank (which I found out on failure #1).

That's it pretty much...All it really amounts to I guess is a large canister filter that is way overkill for my 20 gal test tank I generally do a little overkill on any kind of stuff I build, so I hope this will work great on the 65 gal too.

 

[SkiFletch]

Another quick question, do you think it would matter/help/hurt if I made a mounting for the pump and turned it sideways to allow for the water to flow directly straight into the modules? I figure the impeller is designed to flow the water straight into a single direction, but I didn't know if it would always want to go upward or something...

Would totally work. These centrifugal pumps can operate in any orientation that's convenient for you. A negative suction is created at the inlet and the spinning impeller forces water towards the outside edge of the pump housing where a single outlet hole is provided for high-pressure exit. The orientation matters not